Mainland build size - what is the tasteful limit?

What would be a 'reasonable limit' for the scale of a single region build on the mainland?


It's obvious that even if you own an entire region, it's not cool to build a sheer wall right at the sim border.

So what would be a reasonable step-back distance, and a reasonable height for a region-sized build? One that is meant to be largish, in concept and design.

I suppose this is an 'allowable megaprim usage on the mainland?' question, too.

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Specifically I'm considering a wrought iron and stained glass Steampunk Victorian arcology* that for all intents and purposes would be big enough to have its own natural environment inside. A la Diamond Age, but a bit more Parisienne (if that makes any sense).

If you lived right next to it, what would offend you? Of course no ban lines, flight restrict or any of that nonsense... and I'm thinking a bit of wildland buffer zone might be good anyway as a lolcube defence perimeter.

On the plus side, it might be a really fun sizeable build like Nexus Prime. On the other hand, it might be the Mother of All Mainland Towers (and no, I wouldn't put Ads on it externally!)

Perhaps it's the sort of thing I should just do on a private island, full stop. But I'm thinking: would it be *fun* for most people to have such a thing on the mainland, if it can be done tastefully?

And no, I'm not looking for residents - if this happens at all, it may be mid to late 2009. I've got Caledon to finish first. Such long term planning may sound mad, but it has worked out wonderfully so far.

Thoughts with regard to having such a structure on your doorstep, please?


*arcology: http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/?p=24

Use any megas under 256m in size, should be fine, though dont make them physical.

Also, I'd say.. if you have no neighbouring sims, go ahead and build right up to the edge. If you have neighbours go maybe.. 20 metres in, then a small wall, not huge.. it looks more inviting to me..

I suggest you do some experiments.
I did noticed when I was building on 16536m that if I used mega prim forest walls surrounding the land with the thin 40 meter mega prims that actually felt claustrophobic even though i had 16536m space in the middle with a stage house that was 20m tall, 40 meter wide and 100 meter long in center. I didn't entirely understand why at the time, I am still trying to figure it out. Sorry I haven't been able to be more helpful.

Des, I don't mind if castles crop up next to me - that is part of the wonder of SL. You can have a castle on one side, a treehouse on another, a modern glass-and-steel construction, and then an igloo thrown into the mix. It's all a matter of taste, I suppose, but artfully created builds that are more than just big black boxes are what make the SL landscape beautiful and diverse.

I can't tell you how many of those ugly skyboxes I hate just crop up.. this dark thing that barely has any features visible on the outside. I suppose it's a gothic dungeon, but the structure itself is so boring, it's sad. Most castles are at least somewhat interesting, structurally.

It depends on the outside texture of the wall. There should be some greenery around the wall, e.g. some prim-saving Linden plants . But with that in place, 4-8m space at the border would be sufficient for me.

If you consider using megaprims near the region border, please try it first. I made the experience that these become major lag producers when placed adjacent to a neighbouring region. Consequently this may work better on a region without neighbours than in a mainland sim with 8 bordering sims.

When I saw that Richard Palace bought the sim next to mine, I contacted him and we both put a 16m strip on the border as a buffer (it helped that our common border was mostly water). We also agreed not to build right up to the buffer. It's worked out great.

I think the width of a 32m square is a good minimum distance for my walls or builds to be from my neighbor's land.

i think it would be a fun build, if done tastefully. for me, it's not the size of the build, but the quality.

now... where have we heard that 'size doesn't matter' before?

Well how ever much the overlap that sims trade information on plus a meter would be what I say. Simply so your region is as techincaly unique as it can be. Now for size I say Build it as huge as you like. The important thing isn't a actual size it is the scale. Archologies are by defination big things on a big scale (espesialy the classic art deco looking ones *drools*) As long as it looks as massive as it actualy is then build it up to 768 m if you want. And considering how so much of the caliban stuff looks I have no doubt that you shall creat something jaw droping.

Personally, it's not so much the distance to the wall of any structure that I do or don't like...it's how that structure makes me feel.

Even if it's a relatively small structure, when the builder/owner makes a point of keeping only blank walls facing the neighbors, it is bothersome to me...
(as in...a small house, shoved to the border or not, with blank walls showing to my windows is just unfriendly...but, a huge structure, even right next to the parcel border, with windows or other invitiing features, can be much more pleasant)


I suppose I'd say, see if there's a way to keep the structure inviting and intriguing, despite the size, that will make the difference.

I guess I'm kind of agreeing with 3Ring...size doesn't necessarily matter...
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But bigger is certainly more intriguing.

Desmond, knowing you I would say go with your instinct. I'd be happy to have you as a neighbor any day.

Regarding scale, the neighbor on the other side of Liome built a huge build--a quite interesting multi-decked mall that he built from scratch. He was kind enough to have it set back quite a ways with a dock and water buffer. I think the space around it actually helps it look more dramatic.

i actually enjoy these types of builds. they are fun to explore, and i marvel and the creativity and impressive artisitc qualities of such architecture.

like Bradley, it wouldn't hurt my feelings to have you as the 'tallest building in SL' neighbor.

I think what you are describing sounds wonderful for the mainland. How hospitable it is to is neighbors will have more to do with the human scale and hospitality of the build at ground level. Provide some nice amenities that people can appreciate when walking around it, not just a huge mega prim wall jutting straight up into the sky. Let it blend into the landscape. Many Cities are doing this now at street level in urban planning, requiring shops and restaurants, anything that encourages and accommodates human interaction, instead of an unfriendly shear wall of granite and glass.

Hm.

What I'm envisioning (completely freeform) might be a substantial fraction of the region itself on the interior, and... on the order of 1/2 km tall, perhaps, on the outside. Too big?

A castle might look positively small next to it, so I'm thinking 32m buffer or suchlike may not be nearly enough?

Reference concept for scale... veeery roughly...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/noha/tags/arcology/


I could easily see a design team working on this for months, just to get the superstructure done right. Might have to be near purely residential too (beside an aero-docking spire). Something about 'mall' just sticks in my craw.

Ground level... true, very true... which may determine what sort of region it could be in. Might need a valley or hillside, I can't imagine a mountain peak build being very hospitable to ground traffic.

And megaprims of this size - proscribed on the mainland?

Trying to get a sense of how to control the 'vibe' of the place. "Island of civility" not "monstrous tower" if that makes any sense. I wouldn't want a mainland colony messed up by adfarm towers looming over it (hence the arcology superstructure to sort of mute all that).

Perhaps a Laputa-style method of hiding it from view unless you were practically next to it?

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Great comments - keep 'em coming, and I'd love to hear more actual distance/scale measurements. With regard to something that wouldn't be horrific to have land next to.

terraced stepped walls, on each level break it up with simple plants and trees, with minimal effort it could just have the same effect of living next to a mountain. try and find a SIM with little development surrounding it, put up a rough construction to indicate size, then new buyers around it would have a clue what they are buying into.

Desmond,

Theres probably a mathematical equation or percentage that will work best. Not sure what it would be though...but thats typically how it works.

for instance, the buffer could be 10% of the overall heght...too much? maybe 5% would be better.

Adding some trees to soften up the view from the neighbors perspective would help also.

And as Cristalle said, alot of it comes down to whether the build is visually appealing.

This might want four sims. It's Mainland, so one only gets 40 simultaneous avatars/sim. And the scale of the structures depicted "feels" bigger than a sim. I know: "veeery roughly", but the smallest one, "Noahbabel", is 154 hectares; one sim is 6.55 hectares.

But if a single-sim scale is really the vision, never mind all that. And with a single sim, all those megaprims won't be sitting right on the corner, spanning four sims. I've no personal experience with that, but it sounds sceeery.

Speaking of megaprims. Every chance I get, I reiterate that it's unacceptable to remove the sizes 256m and smaller, but as far as I know, Andrew hasn't promised anything, so... this would be Quite Challenging without megaprims. And even with them, if the radii of the floors are to taper, with fixed-size megas, they'd almost have to be carved-up Rings (as opposed to Cylinders)--and I haven't played much with mega-Rings; they have substantially more complex geometry than Cylinders, though, and even with standard-sized Rings I've confused Havoc (1) about what's actually void space. Which has nothing to do with the question.

I don't really think they're going to go to the trouble of banning some mega-sizes on the Mainland and other sizes on Estates; LL *is* taking a more active interest in the Mainland these days. (Maybe they're beginning to realize where their advantage will be, post-Sims'R'Us.) But if the megas don't cause trouble for the sim(s) on which they're wholly contained, I wouldn't anticipate neighboring sims to have more trouble with them.

As for set-back: the tower is circular, so huge corners will be (more or less) greenspace anyway, I'd suppose (to save prims, if nothing else). So I'd think it could crowd pretty close to the borders at the nearest points without raising concerns from neighbors (or you might be able to just buy-out the parcels closest to those points). I find it hard to judge what perimeter "apron" would make the build most impressive, though.

I really hope it *is* built on the Mainland. I wish my property were next to it--even if the result were a compulsion to build in Steampunk style.

You might want to thumb through some pictures of the skyscrapers in NYC and other cities, and see if there are some examples of setbacks that work with your idea.

I don't think you should figure out a way to conceal the structure from far away after it is built. No hiding your light under a bushel! Besides, how would the airships dock if they can't see it?

Des, there's a skybox build next to my land that your description puts me in mind of.

If you'd like to see it, tp to Lebettu, walk onto our beach area, and then go up 500m. It's a set of circular platforms supported on rotating propellors. Skyboxness aside, the airy, open nature of the thing is what sounds like the project you're describing, though yours is on a much larger scale.

Myself, I'd love to live next to a big structure, if it was light and airy and colorful. Glass sparkling, banners rippling in the wind, airships coming and going...it makes a pretty mental image. Parklike areas around the perimeter, for a pleasant picnic. If it was on the seacoast, there might be direct water access to the interior.

There was a wonderful gothic sim build in Tigerclaw that had mega prim walls right to the sim border. We built great stuff along those walls on the outside..we felt sheltered by them.

They were beautifully textured and magnificent..added to the whole area and upped the the standard for our own builds. Inside those walls, a whole gothic city brooded..it was great! We sure missed those walls when they came down!

I think take the space you want and need; just build beautifully (which is a given for you I think). I think the only time it becomes an issue is if it is obvious that the neighbors are enjoying the view and you are about the block it. I would buy a sim that is new so that there are no established neighbors.

Will overshadowing effects be more of a concern with Windlight? Assuming not, then I would think of Angkor Wat, or the Aztec pyramids, and have the edges semi-hidden with climbing forest plants. This would add an air of mystery and magnificence. You could even have beaten pathways for people to find hidden entrances. There was a great science fiction novel with a whole layered ecosystem on the inside of a torus....can't remember the title. Hmmm.... Maybe I need to buy a sim myself. I have one in mind, but it's going to be too expensive

my only question about Desmond's 'vision' is the physical magnetic factor giant prims create. won't the void space repel the visiting avatar, behaving like a solid?

Desmond, it's hard to imagine any creation of yours causing offense, and personally, I think these archology things are really fascinating. That being said, I'd hate to see this spring up right next to a beautiful area of lazy beach houses and palm trees. But as long as it isn't f***ing floating in the air (why do people do that??), I can't see it being too disrespectful. I guarantee you it will garner complaints, no matter how far away from your edge you are.

This is the type of creativity that SL was meant for, in my opinion, and I would say go for it.

"In Xanadu did Desmond Shang / A Stately Pleasure-Dome Decree ..."

Sounds like a lovely project. 500m high .... if Windlight ever does get shadows, the tower is going to create its own weather! Personally, for my taste, unless the outer walls step down to normal house-height, a 32m setback would be too small. Not too much more tho ... maybe 45 for a really high wall.

For some reason it reminds me of Ringworld, perhaps because I see the possibility of smaller city outposts hovering above the clouds, near the tower. I'm also reminded of M.C. Escher, and I would be sad if there weren't a puzzling staircase or two in the build!

You may need to buy surrounding sims anyway, just for prims

I'm sure it will be beautiful! When can I move in?

How about the Crystal Palace? You could have a wide range of shapes, heights, and setbacks to make attractive from the outside, while allowing for a complex and interesting interior.

I vote Crystal Palace!

Wait a minute - oops, not a democracy. But I still like the idea.