SL vs FL

If I ever meet someone online and it goes to RL, I hope they hate the term "Soul Mate" as much as I do.

I live in SL so I have to take it seriously - I just employ an agent to do the boring computer stuff in RL! LOL. But seriously, I agree that SL can be very absorbing and take over your life. It's OK to let it do that from time to time, especially if you are learning, building or engaged in some other 'project'. I think my RL 'agent' asks too much of me sometimes and I'd rather just be topping up my overall tan on an empty beach sim somewhere, undisturbed!

I think RL's are well advised to be aware of the dangers of overdoing the presence in SL or other virtual worlds, like addiction, withdrawal symptoms or a kind of emptiness when the virtual world ceases to excite them through over exposure.

Perhaps it's good advice to choose one day a week when you don't toch SL or even the website. But that's easier said than done!

/me rereads post...

Dang. I thought she said Soul Man. Wasn't this thread about finding the Blues Brothers?

you couldnt have a second life without a first. its like anything else.
there must be balance. if your second life nourishes your first then maybe its
good for you. its easy to think that is does when it really doesnt.

i think in a lot of cases if you can take skills learned in second life and apply them to
RL (please, its RL, not FL) then you are going in the right direction.

its up to you
if you think you want to be here for a while, then you should push to make things happen that
support your RL.

http://www.electricsheepcompany.com/core/about/recruiting/

Worked for me.

I have encountered several people in SL for whom SL in effect is their RL - and it is a good thing. They are invalids, some wheelchair bound, some just house bound, usually ill, and some in chronic pain. Their RL is necessarily severely constrained. But in SL they can make friends from all over the world, have adventures, live active if virtual lives in which they can dance, fly, make love, build houses. Of course it's all fantasy - but it's all real, too - because the avatars they meet are operated by real people they can really relate to. Do not underestimate the good SL does for the lives of these people. This collateral kindness alone is enough to make me want SL to succeed, and succeed gloriously.

I hope to hell they do it.

I don't want to lose my Second Life, I hope to be here for the long run. But yes the novelty has worn thin and I need to make sure I don't neglect some important aspects of my First Life.

My SL is much better than my RL. In RL I sit in my wheelchair and suffer from chronic pain 24/7, and as such I'm not able to get out much. I pretty much live as a recluse. In SL I can be free from those constraints. I can walk around without problem, and have a social life based on being a normal person/neko/furry whatever... well okay maybe I'm not THAT normal in SL either, but at least people don't automatically see me as the physicaly handicap person that I can't hide from being in RL.

Interestingly a good friend of mine sent me a link to a short video that goes along these lines.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=U6D9K9xTmt0

I'm finally back... and so many responses lol... read em all but won't remember it all.. but heres points I thought of while reading em ^^

Michael, I know that technology will never be able to *fully* recreate reality, ever. the tech specs would just be crazy, we'd destroy the world for the energy lol... but seriously, I don't want it to... What I envision as my perfect life is essentially SL translated into reality. The capabilities of SL - the limitless travel in seconds, the ability to create anything on a whim, the infinite possibilities for businesses that are POSSIBLE to do without billions and billions of dollars.... And the closeness you can achieve to people across the world. if someeone is literally on the other side of the world (Read grid) from you, you can be there in a few seconds to be with them, talk with them, comfort them.

While my FL is not totally empty, I know that my SL is more fulfilling for now, and I could see it staying t hat way for eons (I wouldn't want to live that long.. I'd run out of things to care about..).

And yes, its easier to get hurt in SL for someone like me, as I can become just as attached to someone there as I can in RL, and truly want to be with them in both. So they could totally disappear in SL, without warning... whats stoppng that in RL? People can leave you, die, stop caring, any number of things... in both Lives, it comes down to trust. In both lives, you can be scammed into believing someone loves you, and give everything you've got, only to come up with a broken heart.

SL is *safer* but at the same time mnore dangerous. Its safer in that you can try more without s large of a loss financially and such, but more dangerous in that more people can find you than in RL, and more people can potentially hurt you. I have a 100+ person friends list, and I keep in touch with 75% of them at least. In RL, how many people can honestly say that? That they have 100 friends, 75 of which are actually relatively close.

The psychological aspect of it... in it being *scary* or *unhealthy* for me to become so attached to a virtual world.. Why? We all percieve our Worlds in different ways. Why is it so unhealthy that I percieve mine as being more suited to a Virtual world? Many people are paranoid, do drugs to alter their perception of reality, have a skewed sense of it anyway.. and yet many are just passed of as strange, yet I'm being told it's unhealthy to be more attached to something Virtual than RL? I don't understand it.. I'm just percieving the world differently than might be the 'norm'. I hope that from my replies you can tell I am generally sane (Noone is fully, imho), and also psychologically healthy.... I don't think its wrong or unhealthy to live in a Life I choose... I think everyone should.

And yes, SL could disappear.. but if that were to happen, I could stay in contact with my closest friends/familiy in SL, and find a new world, as there will always be at least one (Until the technology attacks per the matrix...), or even maybe find them in RL.

And Michael, you mentioned something like relationships in a virtual world rarely translate into RL? So very untrue, from what I've seen... SL is a chatroom, and more of a community than most 'community' forums and websites than I've ever found. Why wouldn't it translate into RL? Because of how people look? In both worlds. you may act differently, or the same, butyou will never look the same... that is what most poeple fear about the translation, isn't it? Will they be pretty? i care nothing about looks, literally.. If I find someone and we click, and they are that person in RL too, regardless of looks, we will still click.. very few things about my personality change in translation... I don't see why relationships and such can't translate from here, when they've been translating from forums, websites, email correspondances, even games for years now.

Agreed. For these people I imagine SL is a Godsend, reason enough for us to help finance it's development. i too hope there is SL or it's sucessor for them , long after I've moved on. For the OP I guess as long as you still have the perspective to differentiate RL from SL, and do keep whatever RL responsibilities fufilled, how long you spend on SL is your business.. A lot of people devote as much time as possible to hobbies and what not, if it gives you enjoyment, who's to complain?

SL, to me, is simply an enhancement and extention of my RL. I have a wonderful RL but often find myself confined to traditional norms and the expectations that come along with my profession. SL allows me to "strech my wings" and "fluff my feathers" in a very safe way. And no I dont have a bird avi.

Yeah but its because my often my first live really stinks and I am quite ill,etc.
But I do spend more time these days with art off line then I did when I first started.

There was a recent survey i read which showed that most people value their online friends as much as if not more than their RL friends.
I can see why, especially with SL. I think because it often is mind to mind contact, your dealing with that person as they maybe should have been?. No gender, shyness, afflictions or whatever to be seen?. Oddly, taking away body language and tone allows a deeper level of communication perhaps. It's just important to remember that anyone can lie!!
I find that really intoxicating...and i did do SL way more than i should have because of it.
Now i limit my SL a bit...take time out..it keeps the drama down to an acceptable level..lol...but i really value my SL friends as much as my RL ones..some of them are RL friends now.
So...i think there is a first buzz...then all the SL soap opera dramatics can get too much..and if your lucky after that you can see SL for what is is....an enhancement..but a very important one indeed
So i'm not hooked...but i found out the hard way that RL comes first.

Unfortunately I'm not a bright yellow fox in real-life, but I'm happy in real-life as well. So while SL has many great qualities and possibilities, I won't neglect my real-life to be on SL every waking moment of my life (though when I'm really working on a project in SL it gets close to that!)

I dunno, it's not healthy to just sit and play SL if you're capable of going out and doing other things. Sure it's easy to have a great figure in SL, but I also like going out to the gym and working on trying to get a good figure irl (though it's bloody slow-going). You can pretend to be another gender in SL, but it's much more interesting to go out and meet the real thing.

Yes, you can disappear from the map in RL as well, but it is much harder. People have your telephone number, they know where you live, where you work -- things have a semi-permanency to them that they do not have in SL. In SL, someone can just not fire up the application, and disappear, and that has not one negative impact on them in RL -- not one. So yes, it can happen in both cases, but much more likely to happen online simply because an "escape hatch" like that is cost free.



That's simple: it's because in no way do you "know" your SL friends as well as your RL ones. You can't. You can get "close" to the projection that the other typist inserts into SL, but you never really know that other typist in the way you would if you were to sit down over coffee, or see them at work, or see them at a family picnic. You just have such limited information about them as compared with RL friends. You *feel* close in SL, and you *are* close on the level that the medium allows, but that's a pretty limited closeness compared to what exists in RL. Human beings are multidimensional in terms of how we relate to each other, things like eye contact, facial expression, voice intonation, physical b bearing and the like are not merely "superficialities", they are core, key areas in which human beings relate to each other, and they are simply missing in any "online only" relationship.



As I wrote above, human beings exist and thrive in more dimensions than a venue like SL allows. I would say that it isn't healthy to basically limit yourself to the kinds of expression that SL has. SL has its place, for sure, but it is no substitute for the full-on experience of real life.

As for the healthiness of it ... my personal experience is that people who "prefer" virtual life to real life generally have issues with their real life being inadequate in some way, or are seeking to escape some limitations or realities in their real life that are limiting or otherwise unpleasant or irritating. Whether this is good or bad depends on the circumstances. For someone who is bedridden or otherwise very limited in physical movement in RL, SL can be a godsend because compared to their own RL it allows greater interaction with others and socialization. For people who do not face these kinds of limitations, SL can become a crutch, however, to prop up things like shyness, social discomfort, lack of wilingness to take RL risks (in creativity or business or what have you), feelings of social inhibition, feelings of being "trapped" in relationships or marriages that are only semi-happiness-generating and the like. In other words, in some circumstances, SL can be "used" in a way that actually impedes someone facing their RL issues and tackling them so that they can make progress in RL .. it provides an "outlet", if you will, that permits people not to fix these dissatisfying or unhappiness-creating situations in RL, and to be honest I think that's very unhealthy indeed.

The best advice I have to people starting with SL is this: keep it light. Don't get caught up in SL. Keep it as light entertainment, and keep it in perspective. If you sense it is fulfilling needs you aren't fulfilling in real life, see this as a red flag, step back from SL, and evaluate how you can go about getting these needs met in RL.



No, not only that, it's the totality of the situation. Leaving aside the issue of how much appearance "matters" (in my view it matters quite a bit, and it is not superficial in the least to me because we are all mind/body unities in my view), it's the totality of the context of the person that you do not have: you do not see how they are living, how they are interacting with their friends, family and community in RL, how they bear themselves, how they interact generally in person, and all sorts of other contextual data that human beings use to communicate and form bonds with each other (or not).

A cactus is a fine plant in Arizona. It serves you well there, and it's great. If you decide to move to Siberia, you can try to take your cactus with you, but asking it to thrive in Siberia like it did in Arizona is asking too much of an otherwise perfectly fine cactus. Can the cactus thrive in Siberia? Sure it *can* ... but most of the time it doesn't, and most of the time it's a bad idea trying to transplant it from Arizona to Siberia, in my view.

Oh I hear you and echo there sweetie. The novelty does wear thin but then it's time to make your own magic (not you as in you Jessica but you as in all of us). I'm over the 1 1/2 year mark now and until very recently I'd have happily uninstalled but I am glad I didn't.

It goes in cycles but ultimately RL must come first. Of course ... thinking about SL is now part of RL, in as much as being interested in recipes is, or looking at travel plans, or chatting with friends in another way.

That is a great video Garrett.

I discovered SL because of a positive TV report I saw last year and one of the people they focused on was Simon the founder of Wheelies. Yes abled bodied people like myself must strike a balance between RL and SL, but SL is a great place for people in your community to stretch your legs and get out and enjoy what the SL world has to offer.

Agreed. The first month you couldn't get me off, I levelled off after that, and even considered chucking it every so often. But it seems something or someone pops up that renews my interest. but I still live SL day to day, RL could get busy, and after a short time SL can be out of sight out of mind.

RL rocks! SL is just a toy.

Another thing I should mention is that I tend to take avatars at face value, like I see them as what they are in SL and try not to pry further, except perhaps which country they came to SL from. At least this is how I see humanoid avs but furries I assume are humans dressed up as foxes, rabbits etc. (runs for cover with hands over head LOL) I try not to chat at all about RL apart from generalities, and prefer to talk about my avataric experience in-world.

After you lose a bunch of inventory, get caged and orbited a few times, spend hours rubberbanding and lagging, and once your shoes have become permanently rammed into your crotch from tp issues - then and only then - are you prepared for shambling, penis-equipped noobs, filth-sucking realtor charlatans, theiving "investment bankers", lame BIAB "opportunities", overpriced land, and a general malaise on the part of SL.

So.

Yeah.

What Cherry sed.

Argent, do I take it then that your SL experience has been less than positive? I don't know, something about your tone and reading between the lines.....

Its easier... that much is obvious, of course, but if you truly get that close to someone in SL, so much so that it is real to you (And to them I would hope), would you only have their SL contact? It doesn't seem so, but that's just me. I don't personally have any contact outside of SL for anyone but the person who introduced me to SL, but noone yet means enough to me for me to need it.... at this point, if somebody left, I would just move on, whereas down the road it might really hurt... but if they are that close, I would at least ask for some other way to contact them, in case they *did* disappear. If they weren't willing to give it, I would understand, but also would not be able to feel as close, because that small show of trust isn't there. (I'm talking emails generally, not phone numbers.)



Again... this is possible in RL... I know, in some aspects I have too much faith in humanity, and in others I have not enough.. but... you can't possibly know in RL *or* in SL if te person you are meeting is really who they say they are. In RL you can only prove the physicality of it, but they may still be projecting an image to get you to like them, or dislike them or to take advantage of you... How many people in *either* life can you say you truly know what they think about you, and who they are inside? I can't think of that many honestly, I mean I know I have friends in both lives, and I know generally who they are (Or say they are), but I can't say with total confidence that I know without a shadow of a doubt in my mind who they are, and what they think of me.


As I stated in some earlier post(I think..maybe diff thread..) I don't want to replace my FL with SL. I want, quite truly, to mesh them together, create a Life that has the limitless of creativity and travel and friendships that SL has, but with the senses of RL... I know it won't happen, but that would be my eutopian(sp?) life I suppose... and how is the creativity limited in SL?

In both RL and SL, you can create art in may forms..music, video, paintings, drawings, sculptures, houses, I can't think of a medium in RL that isn't at least translatable to SL. Maybe I'm just not thinking right, but I really can't.


It seems to me that you're saying its unhealthy to want to escape from a Life that is not satisfying... I think it's human nature. And the 'trapped in a relationship that isn't satisfying' (Not the same wording, but I think similar meaning)... I know that feeling well, and you're telling me that it's better to just suffer through it than to try to find an escape from it? I can't see how that makes sense honestly... I mean.. You can feel trapped especially when you do care for the person, but not in the same way anymore.. not in the way they expect.. but you can't hurt them, because you *do* care for them in some way... You're telling me that its healthier to suffer in silence than to find a Life where you can escape from this? I, personally, think that *that* is unhealthy... and maye I misunderstood your meaning... if so I apologize.. but thats how I interpreted it.


People aren't cacti. Yes, we have our limitations with what we can comfortably cope with, but... we're a helluva lot more resilient in my opinion. We're made to adapt.. almost literally. Our bodies adapt to different climates (Not immediately, but not in generations like plants, it can happen in one lifetime, less even.), and we can adjust to different social settings, since there are similar cliques and settings no matter where you go. Sure there will be differences, but humans are more capable of dealing with them than a cactus would be. That cactus will need nurturing every day of it's life to cope with the sudden change, but a human would adapt to it, and maybe need nurturing in a new place for a time, but would stand on their own feet after a bit.

And yes, I understand its not the same as virtual-to-real changes.. the differences are still the same, at least generally in my opinion. And again.. virtual relationships have been blossoming into real ones for over a decade now, since the internet was thought of as a means of meeting potential partners (That sounds so romantic, yeah? lol). But what I'm saying is.. yes, there will be differences in the people, and there will be differences in the relationship, but if you've both been honest about who you are to the other person, then those differences will be easy to overcome... and we're back to honesty.. In either world, it's the key to a relationship, and its also the key to the translatino between virtual and reality isn't it?

People may talk about how unhealthy it is to spend long periods of time in SL and to balance it with RL. Sounds reasonable. However I wonder if it's really any better if a person stayed away from SL only to watch several more hours of TV, read fantasy novels, watch movies on DVD, or other similar activities. Is this being more engaged in RL? My opinion... not really.

Personally I don't make the judgement that RL is always more "healthy" as opposed to SL. It's all ONE life to me. What is important is that the totality of the *one* life is integrated and balanced. That will vary from person to person and nobody can look from the outside and judge what is most appropriate for another person. People who haven't lived someone else's health (physical or mental) or relationship issues are not in a position to judge. You could only do that if you actually lived in someone else's shoes -- or wheelchair.

The choice isn't between an escape to SL and suffering in silence. The choice is between facing whatever underlying issues exist in RL and addressing them, or escaping from them in SL. If SL is used that way, to me it is akin to a depressed person using alcohol or drugs .. it makes them feel a bit better in the short run, but in the long run addresses nothing. If your RL relationship makes you feel trapped, yet you do not wish to change that situation and come to SL to replace what is missing there ... yes I would say that this is unhealthy because it is something that is permitting you not to address why your relationship in RL is unhappy and to make whatever changes there you need to make to become happier there. I don't know your situation, and only you can judge what is best -- with the help of a RL professional -- but my own view is that using SL in this way is not helpful in the long run to your RL.



Yes, but it is much, much, much, much easier to not be who are you are online. Sometimes differences of degree become so great that they morph into differences in kind. To me, this is one of them.