I'm resisting the desire to bring an alt onto the forum...
Yes I am...
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Alt avi blues |
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Amy Stork
Way past use by date
Join date: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 646
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06-25-2008 06:57
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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06-25-2008 07:13
if you can get them on the same parcel you can use the parcel media settings to determine their ip address, assuming you have access to the media servers logs. they wouldnt even necessarily need to be there at the same time either. in fact, you wouldnt even need to have an actual media server running. even if they hit a 404 you can get their info.
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
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06-25-2008 07:35
I suppose if you could figure out how to sniff the network to grab the packets, you could figure it out. Somewhere in there would be an IP address and an avi name. All chat, IM and normal movement and interaction go through LL's servers. Your IP is never exposed that way. Parcel music and video, HTML-on-a-prim and profile web pages are loaded directly from the source, and so expose your IP to the relevant server, but all these are opt-in. (Be aware, though, that if you have "Automatically load web profiles" checked, it will load the web page as soon as you open somebody's profile, not when you select the relevant tab). Surely there are situations, such as suspected fraud, when this information should be given? Yes. We have pretty well-established laws in place to tell when somebody's identity can be handed out in legal cases, and LL complies with them. Trying to circumvent that is effectively stalking. Well my problem is I'm allready involved with somone and there's real money at stake Real money = real laws. Either you draw up a (real) contract before getting involved, or you go through the legal channels to hunt down people afterwards. Sorry to sound a little cynical about this, but I don't like the idea of trying to short-circuit the legal system "in just this case, where I have a really good reason for it". |
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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06-25-2008 07:54
gawd I hope not. The only IP addrs that should be appearing in client packets are LL's. All chat, IM and normal movement and interaction go through LL's servers. Your IP is never exposed that way. _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
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06-25-2008 08:08
I was sort of implying, without really saying (and definitely not recommending), that you would have to hack the network. If you're in a position to freely inspect packages on LL's network, somebody else committing fraud is not the immediate legal problem you should be concerned with. |
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Johan Laurasia
Fully Rezzed
Join date: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,394
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06-25-2008 08:24
Nope. If they won't tell you , there is no way you can find out. That's not entirely true, if you can get them to visit a web page you can log their IP address, or get them to view a video, and possibly figure it out that way, but the easiest way, (IMHO), is to just be able to notice the little details. Almost everyone has a particular typing 'style', either misspelling the same words, or even grammatical construction. Or, possibly try to get them both in the same location at the same time if both are logged on, and see if one is always standing still while the other is moving or typing. There are subtle ways to detect, and not all of it is rock solid proof (the IP stuff is), but, one can, after a while, surmise that a particular someone is or is not a particular alt. http://www.secondscripter.com _____________________
My tutes
http://www.youtube.com/johanlaurasia |
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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06-25-2008 08:56
If you're in a position to freely inspect packages on LL's network, somebody else committing fraud is not the immediate legal problem you should be concerned with. _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Solomon Devoix
Used Register
Join date: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 496
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06-25-2008 10:16
...but the easiest way, (IMHO), is to just be able to notice the little details. Almost everyone has a particular typing 'style', either misspelling the same words, or even grammatical construction. Or, possibly try to get them both in the same location at the same time if both are logged on, and see if one is always standing still while the other is moving or typing. There are subtle ways to detect, and not all of it is rock solid proof (the IP stuff is), but, one can, after a while, surmise that a particular someone is or is not a particular alt. Yeah. But I've been in a situation where I, and someone else, were repeatedly accused of being alts for the other (which was "real" and which was the alt differed depending on who was making the claim) by quite a few people. Their proof? That the other person and I consistently treated the female dancers at the same club with respect when we spoke to or about them. Eventually I made t-shirts for us that said "My alt is..." with a picture of the other person's avatar. I hoped that, by poking fun at the notion, it would die down. Didn't work. To this day there are still people convinced that I'm an alt for someone else, and that he's an alt for me. _____________________
I dont know what the actual answer is.. I just know LLs response was at best...flaccid. That's a very good way to put it, and now I know why we still haven't seen the promised blog entry... ...the Lindens are still waiting for their shipment of Lie-agra to come in to firm up their flaccid reasoning. |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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06-25-2008 11:51
That's not entirely true, if you can get them to visit a web page you can log their IP address, or get them to view a video, and possibly figure it out that way, but the easiest way, (IMHO), is to just be able to notice the little details. Almost everyone has a particular typing 'style', either misspelling the same words, or even grammatical construction. Or, possibly try to get them both in the same location at the same time if both are logged on, and see if one is always standing still while the other is moving or typing. There are subtle ways to detect, and not all of it is rock solid proof (the IP stuff is), but, one can, after a while, surmise that a particular someone is or is not a particular alt. http://www.secondscripter.com I guess, if you have a Degree in Suspisciousness from Paranoid University. Doesn't all that IP tracking nonsense just mean you know where they are that given moment? And how precise is that? And those other methods may help confirm your suspiscions, especially if you are predetermined to believe them, it doesn't confirm it 100%. You don't know for certain until you meet someone , in the flesh. All other methods are not foolproof. If you are engaging in any type of situation where that level of disclosure is necessary, then you need to get that out of the way in the beginning. _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Imnotgoing Sideways
Can't outlaw cute! =^-^=
Join date: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 4,694
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06-25-2008 12:32
...accused of being alts... _____________________
Somewhere in this world; there is someone having some good clean fun doing the one thing you hate the most. (^_^)y
 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ferguson/54/237/94 |
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Feldspar Millgrove
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 372
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06-25-2008 12:36
Set up an external website and/or landing page with an ip logger/tracker specific to your little project. Pick your suspects and ask them to visit the external web page (some sort of tempting offer maybe). Keep a track of the people you send the url to. If you own a parcel of land, you can do this with the streaming audio feature. That audio is nothing more than a web site, so you can easily correlate the IP address of the avatar who walked onto the parcel. (You don't need to actually provide any audio stream, of course -- it's just a URL which points to your web site.) So if can get both avatars to walk (not necessarily at the same time) onto the parcel with streaming audio turned on, you can compare their two IP addresses in the web server logs. If they are the same, there is a good chance it's the same person. Streaming audio/media is nothing more than advertising a URL to people's browsers (ie. SL Viewer) and asking them to connect their home computer to your web site. |
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Tammy Nowotny
Registered User
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 25
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06-25-2008 15:39
That only works if they have their music on. Most people don't have it turned on unless they are attending an event where the music (or a lecture) is the focus.
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Xerxes Kingstop
supercalifragisomecrap
Join date: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 416
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06-25-2008 16:26
If something is making you suspicious, there is usually a reason for it - go with your hunches. Hmmm ... I think she knows what she it talking about. LittleMe Jewell's siggy: "As I've matured I've learned that you cannot make someone love you. All you can do is stalk them and hope that they panic and give in." *silly grin* Hi, Lil! *waves* ,, _____________________
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. lucky man lucky man very lucky man . .___________ |
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Jeffrey Gomez
Cubed™
Join date: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,522
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06-25-2008 16:54
That's not entirely true, if you can get them to visit a web page you can log their IP address, or get them to view a video... Parcel media can be used to tie an avatar to an IP address (nevermind exploit you through Quicktime if you're not patched). Between that, the lag generated by media, and the fact I run my own local music, I keep parcel media off by default. Otherwise, welcome to Second Life. Alts are half the fun.  _____________________
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Ceka Cianci
SuperPremiumExcaliburAcc#
Join date: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4,489
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06-25-2008 16:59
Ok, I actually disagree with the idea of snooping on anyone in SL. We're either anonymous or not and you go into business with another "person" on that basis. Not ideal, but for most of the community the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. I also don't believe that there is any way within the SL infrastructure to find this sort of information out, but if you wanted to then you could try this approach. It's still pretty fallable and finger in the air, but you might hit lucky. Set up an external website and/or landing page with an ip logger/tracker specific to your little project. Pick your suspects and ask them to visit the external web page (some sort of tempting offer maybe). Keep a track of the people you send the url to. When they use their browser to access your page, you should be able to retrieve an IP address and hence a general location. Be careful not to jump to conclusions. There are many if's and but's here. Dynamic IP addresses, proxies, the list goes on. However by tracking the IP address back you can normally discard those that aren't speciic enough anyway, If this is really important to you though, this may potentially give you some info with which to work. even then most times you will only get the isp depending on the isp.. _____________________
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Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
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06-25-2008 18:24
I always find it hillarious that people go on skin or hair or whatever to say someone is an alt. Since my main AND my alts (except one that is tiny now)have slider skins and hair not to mention nothing fancy clothing wise. My main is 4 years old, my youngest Alt over 2. I am just not someone that cares about fashion.
Sure I have 2 alts. Not a bit of shame in it. They each serve different purposes and none are bots of any sort. Sometimes I do dual log for photography or product testing but thats about as nefarious as it gets. _____________________
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MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
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06-25-2008 19:08
I had a couple alts just for help building furnature and stuff... putting them on the poses to adjust and tweak versus me having to worry about the camera angle to do it.
Don't bother with them anymore, then again mainly been doing scripting and other work for a change. _____________________
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Bippity boppity boo! I'm stalking you! 9 out of 10 voices in my head don't like you... the 10th went to get the ammo |
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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06-25-2008 19:31
Hmmm ... I think she knows what she it talking about. LittleMe Jewell's siggy: "As I've matured I've learned that you cannot make someone love you. All you can do is stalk them and hope that they panic and give in." *silly grin* Hi, Lil! *waves* ,, That stalking stuff does not always work.......... maybe some people are too dense for it.  _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Amy Stork
Way past use by date
Join date: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 646
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06-26-2008 01:17
I always find it hillarious that people go on skin or hair or whatever to say someone is an alt. Since my main AND my alts (except one that is tiny now)have slider skins and hair not to mention nothing fancy clothing wise. My main is 4 years old, my youngest Alt over 2. I am just not someone that cares about fashion. Sure I have 2 alts. Not a bit of shame in it. They each serve different purposes and none are bots of any sort. Sometimes I do dual log for photography or product testing but thats about as nefarious as it gets. I have numerous alts as well - some quite old - one thats even older than me.. some quite new none of them serve any particualr purpose other than I sometimes "test" guests I'm suspicious about. This in itself may seem a nefarious activity - but hey t's fair enough imo as I don't want "whackbags" in my colony  Using alts to manipulate somebody out of money though is pretty uncool though - there's plenty of that in RL going on though - they are called conmen. |
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Raz Sorbet
Registered User
Join date: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 10
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06-26-2008 01:27
Hai Gais... What is an ALT? Is this some sort of new RP adventure?
/me runs back to her Pai |
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Amy Stork
Way past use by date
Join date: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 646
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06-26-2008 02:20
An "alt" is slang for an alternate character - it means you have more than one av that you use in the game.
However there are numerous other meanings of the word "Alt" in game and in forum. For example an ALT may also mean an ALTercation between forum posters of differing opinions although this is more commonly referred to as a spat ALT also has significance in usenets... |
