What would you do if someone gave you money for nothing?
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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07-22-2008 06:28
From: Rioko Bamaisin Well,I would worry about refunding it without talking to support first. It could be taken as a sign you had something to do with the laundering err fraud.....(If there is any....) It is my understanding that for money laundering to work, the flow does not involve the exact same amount of funds bouncing back and forth between two parties as single payments.
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Rioko Bamaisin
Unstable Princess
Join date: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,668
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07-22-2008 06:32
From: Sling Trebuchet It is my understanding that for money laundering to work, the flow does not involve the exact same amount of funds bouncing back and forth between two parties as single payments. I have no idea how it works to be honest.(I need to go back to criminal school  ) I would still talk to support first though,because if that money is "bad" then just by association with it might be enough to get your account suspended while they investigate.
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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07-22-2008 06:34
Given that LL is of the 'shoot first, ask questions over dead body,' mentality.. I'd definitely go with a support ticket (Or Support Ticket/Live Chat combo) to find out where that 50K came from before sending it back. That way, you can argue that you reported it, had a chat with a Linden to alert them to the issue and hopefully avoid the extra %10 removal.
If it's legit, you'll be able to beat your conscience into submission.
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Skell Dagger
Smitten
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,885
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07-22-2008 06:36
Personally I would worry that I was being made the 'receiver' in some laundering scheme, yeah. As in, someone takes over an account with a lot of money in it, offloads said money to an alt, then pays from the alt to someone else (you) so it looks as though you're implicated. The only flaw in that would be how they would recover the money from you in the end, so that leaves me to wonder... is there anyone that might want to merely *implicate* you in a money laundering scheme, and thus get you banned from the grid?
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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07-22-2008 06:37
I'd roll the dice and keep it. You made attempts to contact the donor. But I don't have anything at risk like a business, or financial investment, so sending in a ticket is a good idea.
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MoxZ Mokeev
Invisible Alpha Texture
Join date: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 870
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07-22-2008 06:38
Ok. What if it is a scam? I can't begin to fathom how it would work, but what if it were a scam that only appeared that you had been sent this money from this person when in fact it came from someone or something else in the hopes that you would refund the person that it appeared that it came from? Did I make that understandable? What if?
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Kyllie Wylie
J-Rocker
Join date: 7 Mar 2008
Posts: 489
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07-22-2008 06:47
and here I was excited that someone gave me 20L out of the blue yesterday......
Actualy this is common in other games where there is no easy or legal way of "cashing out" your character. If a person was thinking of quittng SL and didnt know he could cash out his Lindens he may just hand it out to strangers.....
Hmm that reminds me, I still have 1,350,000 platinums on my Everquest account ... should log in before it expires....
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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07-22-2008 06:49
From: MoxZ Mokeev Ok. What if it is a scam? I can't begin to fathom how it would work, but what if it were a scam that only appeared that you had been sent this money from this person when in fact it came from someone or something else in the hopes that you would refund the person that it appeared that it came from? Did I make that understandable? What if? That is exactly what I thought . . . Pep (I used to be an accountant but I am better now)
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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07-22-2008 07:05
Isn't there some mad rule about money that comes from dodgy sources is clawed back and then 50% on top of that is clawed back too?
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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07-22-2008 07:12
Correct, Ciaran. Porky, I would not simply return the funds. DO contact LL, even if you think they're worthless. Pay the money to an alt, so it isn't mixed in with your own funds. Sit on the money for at least 30 days. Continue to try and contact the sender, say once a week. If nothing happens to clarify the situation in a month...SHOP! Oh...and, could you PM me the name of your siltent benefactor? I want to add him or her to my Friends list. 
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Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
Join date: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1,414
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07-22-2008 07:20
Scam?
I was definitely sent the money by the avatar rather than an object. So if this is a scam then it's pretty poor as I would either, Keep the money myself, or pay the exact same amount of money back to the original payee.
Money laundering?
God knows. I see hundreds of transactions every week and I cannot possibly account for the validity of every L$ I recieve, nor is it my responsibility to. I make allot of money from SL and if LL ever tried to hold me accountable for the origins of my customers L$ then I would take legal action against them.
Solution?
So in reading peoples comments I have come up with an idea. I have sent this person L$50000 worth of product. I sent individual items so the name of each item would appear in my transaction history. The person was offline so I guess i'll wait and see if they accept my inventory offers and have anything to say about it. So no longer money for nothing as Dire Sraits would say....now they have just invested in some fo the best prefabs in SL! If they want to complain about what I have sent them, then great!!. At least it would open up a dialogue.
I can now assure myself that I have earned this money (in a quirky sort of way) and I dont think I have cheated anyone. They were given ample oportunity to explain themselves but chose to ignore me. If they want to turn around and ask me for their money back at a later date, then fine, i'll give it to them and they can keep the prefabs as well. It's a gamble, in that i could end up giving the money back and giving away all that product for free but I doubt that will happen, and if it does I will AR them for playing Mind Games! lol
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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07-22-2008 07:27
Maybe someone paid the mystery person $L 50k for no reason three months ago... ...and after fits of anguish, confusion and lack of understanding they just paid it forward? Coulda happened multiple times, too... Strange stuff... maybe it's like the bottle imp or the monkey's hand or something. *cues strange music*
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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07-22-2008 07:27
From: Porky Gorky Scam?
I was definitely sent the money by the avatar rather than an object. So if this is a scam then it's pretty poor as I would either, Keep the money myself, or pay the exact same amount of money back to the original payee.
Money laundering?
God knows. I see hundreds of transactions every week and I cannot possibly account for the validity of every L$ I recieve, nor is it my responsibility to. I make allot of money from SL and if LL ever tried to hold me accountable for the origins of my customers L$ then I would take legal action against them.
Solution?
So in reading peoples comments I have come up with an idea. I have sent this person L$50000 worth of product. I sent individual items so the name of each item would appear in my transaction history. The person was offline so I guess i'll wait and see if they accept my inventory offers and have anything to say about it. So no longer money for nothing as Dire Sraits would say....now they have just invested in some fo the best prefabs in SL! If they want to complain about what I have sent them, then great!!. At least it would open up a dialogue.
I can now assure myself that I have earned this money (in a quirky sort of way) and I dont think I have cheated anyone. They were given ample oportunity to explain themselves but chose to ignore me. If they want to turn around and ask me for their money back at a later date, then fine, i'll give it to them and they can keep the prefabs as well. It's a gamble, in that i could end up giving the money back and giving away all that product for free but I doubt that will happen, and if it does I will AR them for playing Mind Games! lol I like the way you think. Excellent . Now take me shopping.
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Steely Carver
The dreamer or the dream?
Join date: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 515
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07-22-2008 07:27
From: Porky Gorky Now i'm the sort of person that if I found a purse or wallet in the street in rl, I would take the money and throw the wallet into the bin.
However in SL I try to act differently, as I am (supposed) to be a trustworthy business person and thats the role I have played successfully for the past 4 years.
So 1 week ago today a resident who will remain nameless paid me L$50000 for no reason. I checked my entire sales history and this person has never been a customer. I checked my traffic monitor and this person hasn't even visited my stores in the last 30 days so not even a potential customer.
So taking into account my above documented SL honesty I sent an IM to this person telling them of their error, asking them why they paid me L$50K and offering their money back. Didnt get an offline message so assumed this person recieved the IM. From their profile I know they are english speaking and that if they chose to read the IM they would have understood it. So I wait 24 hrs. No response.
Very odd thinks Porky.
So 24 hours after the IM I send a notecard entitled "YOU PAYED ME L$50K BY MISTAKE" again asking why they had paid me 50K and offering a refund. The notecard inventory offer was accepted within 30 secs so this person was online.
No response.
So yesterday, 6 days after I recieved the payment, I IM'd and sent a notecard again. Again they seemed to be online when I sent the IM and they accepted the notecard within a few minutes.
No reposnse.
This lack of response has now annoyed me as I want to know 1) why they sent me the money and 2) why they wont respond to me when I try to offer it back.
I know I could just send them the L$50K back and wash my hands of this but that will pay my tier next month so unless they respond I will keep it and spend it.
What would you do at this point if you were me? I am a computer tech. One day I was working at a client's home. I fixed all his problems and he was really happy with my work. As I was packing up he gave me a $20.00 tip. I thought, "Great, I must have made happy customer." Later he came into the shop for more work. I filled out a work order and told him the charges. He immediately started bitching that he thought he would get a break and that he gave me a tip and basically treated me like I was an ass. So it wasn't a tip, it was a bribe. He figured I now owed him a favor. In light of this experience, I would be suspicious. What do they want from you in return?
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Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
Join date: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1,414
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07-22-2008 07:35
From: Ciaran Laval Isn't there some mad rule about money that comes from dodgy sources is clawed back and then 50% on top of that is clawed back too? I am aware of this from past incidents and at the time i spoke to my Lawyer about LL's legal right to hold innocent people responsible for the crimes and wrong doings of others. Despite being British, my lawyer got his post graduate in the US and is well versed in US law. At my request (and exspense) he has disected and analyzed SL's TOS and is confident that his firm could win damages from LL if they ever did this to me. His firm has been involved in cases inolving the metaverse before and are getting a good reputation for pioneering the rights of virtual citizens. Nobody should ever tolerate this.
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Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
Join date: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1,414
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07-22-2008 07:39
From: Desmond Shang Maybe someone paid the mystery person $L 50k for no reason three months ago... ...and after fits of anguish, confusion and lack of understanding they just paid it forward? Coulda happened multiple times, too... Strange stuff... maybe it's like the bottle imp or the monkey's hand or something. *cues strange music* LOL So maybe after 3 months of anguished sleepless nights I will be compelled to pass on this L$50K to the next unsuspecting victim. Hands up who wants to be cursed next?
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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07-22-2008 07:40
From: Porky Gorky LOL
So maybe after 3 months of anguished sleepless nights I will be compelled to pass on this L$50K to the next unsuspecting victim. Hands up who wants to be cursed next? Me! Me! Me! *Jumps up and down*
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Rainy Latte
Self-proclaimed deviant
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 92
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07-22-2008 07:40
/me raises hand.. both.. waves them wildly. LOL!!! 
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Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
Join date: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1,414
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07-22-2008 07:43
From: Steely Carver I am a computer tech. One day I was working at a client's home. I fixed all his problems and he was really happy with my work. As I was packing up he gave me a $20.00 tip. I thought, "Great, I must have made happy customer." Later he came into the shop for more work. I filled out a work order and told him the charges. He immediately started bitching that he thought he would get a break and that he gave me a tip and basically treated me like I was an ass. So it wasn't a tip, it was a bribe. He figured I now owed him a favor.
In light of this experience, I would be suspicious. What do they want from you in return? Well the only thing I have to offer is a wonderful range of prefab homes and textures all of 100% original design and extremely well priced. Now you might be thinking "what a shamless plug for Hydro Homes (search listings for more details)" and you know what.......You would be right 
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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07-22-2008 07:49
So and so didn't deliver my item is not the same as potential theft and money laundering. The first they don't care about thanks to the caveat emptor rule, but the second they do care very much about. Put in a ticket/chat. They are far less likely to be useless. I wouldn't spend a single L until this is resolved.
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Zaphod Kotobide
zOMGWTFPME!
Join date: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,087
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07-22-2008 08:19
Oddly enough, people do still occasionally practice genuine, random acts of kindness. Those who do would often rather do so anonymously. It isn't beyond fathomability that this is exactly what happened. What makes it shocking is that it's so rare.
Just an idea, in an age where kindness is met with suspicion.
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Steely Carver
The dreamer or the dream?
Join date: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 515
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07-22-2008 08:22
From: Porky Gorky Well the only thing I have to offer is a wonderful range of prefab homes and textures all of 100% original design and extremely well priced. Now you might be thinking "what a shamless plug for Hydro Homes (search listings for more details)" and you know what.......You would be right  Hehe 
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-22-2008 08:25
From: Porky Gorky What would you do if someone gave you money for nothing? i would be worried that LL was going to take it from me after they realized where the stoeln credit card money went... AND, they could take a penalty too, AND they could ban you. 
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Ralektra Breda
Template Painter
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 1,875
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07-22-2008 08:28
From: 3Ring Binder i would be worried that LL was going to take it from me after they realized where the stoeln credit card money went... AND, they could take a penalty too, AND they could ban you.  this
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Kyllie Wylie
J-Rocker
Join date: 7 Mar 2008
Posts: 489
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07-22-2008 08:38
or maybe they are with the Tax Department and want to see if you declare the income on your next tax return!
TaxMan shouts: "Aha! we know you got 50,000 Lindens! why are they not reported on Line 2305 of Schedual LL4!!!"
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