What causes SL's high dropout rate?

That's been the experience of every friend of mine that's come on to SL. Not a single one of them stayed. If we had the same schedules I would have showed them around myself, but we didn't. Instead, I found out later that they logged in, went through OI and then found themselves thinking there was nothing to do at that point and never logging in again.

I think mentors have access to OI. When I took Trout through, there was a mentor there who had done some work to his av that you can't do on OI. Obviously, everyone looks like a noob there, but this guy had a skin, clothes, etc. I only talked to him briefly, but he was really pretty cool. I wish I'd talked to him more; I might have had a better idea what the heck SL was about.

Yumi - I don't think Monalisa was saying that the people who help new residents are failing to explain what SL is about. The OI process itself fails people. It's just impossible to have volunteer helpers available 24/7 on all the OI's to help new people, and the Help Island/OI process may teach you how to walk and fly, but it does nothing to help explain what to expect when you get to the mainland or what there is to do in SL, except in broad, sweeping generalizations (own stuff, make friends, have fun, etc.). It doesn't tell you how to find things that you might be interested in or where to go or what the general community standards are (except no nudity in PG areas). OI and Help Islands really need to be re-worked to give people a better concept of SL.

You're correct, though. There has to be an allowance for a certain percentage of people who just either don't get it and leave, or who do get it and it isn't their thing.

For myself, I missed out on the OI experience, it sounds like a good thing I did! The residents' blogs that I found on the SL website were a much better guide to what SL is "about", and gave me some useful info as well. Perhaps the OI should direct newbies to read a few blogs

Mentors can go to the OI and like you I wish I had spoke more to the few I saw there when I started...I would of been able to drop that torch a lot sooner than I did...3 days!?!

Mentors do have access to OI, but classically Mentors were told to try to help people on HIs, not OIs. I remember one of the V-Team Lindens mentioning that several new people had said they were happier _not_ having to deal with mentors on OI, but of course, those were people who did not quit while still on OI. It's kind of difficult to teach people just to move and chat, especially when they might not know things like how to open the History window yet.



Well, it's kind of difficult there. As I mentioned on the other thread, I think most of what you can do in SL can be broken down into five possibilities: chat, play fair, create, explore, and business. Many things in SL look like they don't fit into these things, but almost inevitably they turn out to: roleplaying, for example, always eventually comes down to "chat" or "play fair". Now, OI/HI *do* introduce many of those concepts. What they don't do is to highlight the potential range of applications for them, but that's difficult to do. If someone doesn't trust that saying you can "chat" means you can chat about different topics, then it's difficult to persuade them that it's true.

Haha! That damn torch.. it took me ages to work out how to drop that. I was awkwardly stumbling around Orientation Island for hours trying to figure out how to get off it.
I thought there was some sort of challenge that had to be completed before you could leave... something involving a torch. lol.

Umm I'm a newbie helper myself, and I especially like to stand on the OIs. As soon as someone asks about the "next level" and this and that "quest", it is obvious to me that this person did not understand the nature of SL. What you can do is simply explaining what SL is and what it's not.

That's what I meant. I am a newbie helper too, so I really hope we don't fail people hehe.

The game-like nature of the OIs is misleading IMHO. Many, many times I explain to the new arrivals that "this isn't a game, it`s just an intro", that they don't NEED to complete all the tasks and so on. It's very confusing. A simpler intro like on OIP would be better.

I'm not sure what an OIP is, but I agree that we don't need to be confusing new people by making them think it's a game. I think I got lucky and figured out it was set up to get me used to the controls like a lot of the games do that I play - there's a "training course" or something similar you complete before playing the game. It's usually worked into the theme of the game somehow. In SL, though, it still gives the impression that SL is a big video game with quests and goals and such.

I was so glad that I knew I didn't have to deal with OI when I took Mumfuzz through for the Hangout project. I was working with Oryx on the project and the interest I rezzed, I IM'ed her and got her to tp me the heck out of there.

Mumfuzz: Hey, Oryx, it's me, Trout. Get me off of OI!!
Oryx: OK, I'll TP you here.
Oryx Tempel has offered to tp you to her location
Oryx: lol - you're BRAND NEW! Look at you!
Mumfuzz: Ooooooo...sexy mami! You so pretty. Teach me sexxies now?
Oryx: Oh Lord. Can I tp you back to Help Island?

After that, legitimate work was done, but I couldn't help hitting on the first woman I found while I was a 5-minute old newb avatar. I only wish I had a prim part to attach when I did it. I'm glad she has a sense of humor. I'd hate for poor Mumfuzz to be orbited as a newborn.

First... the Orientation Island signs are hardly ever blank gray textures. The SL viewer has the textures for OI built into the download, so it rezzes quickly. The OnRez viewer uses the same trick, but for the CSI:NY islands. (Comment; LL should take those textures out of RC and First Look viewers to decrease the download size; the users of those aren't going to be visiting OI very often unless their last name is Linden.)

I have seen a number of reasons for people to disappear. First are the ones who never really appear; they try to run SL, and discover that their computers or network connections aren't up to the challenge of running SL well. Those users appear in world, are Ruthed and immobile for 5 to 10 minutes, and then disappear. Some repeat the cycle a few times before giving up.

Second are the ones who just plain find it boring. Usually that happens with people who want their games to provide explicit directions and goals, which are things that Second Life doesn't have. Without the software pushing them to do something, they find nothing to do.

Then there are the people who get frustrated with the economy. Some of them were lured in by people or press that talked about a frontier land where you could make money -- but when they arrived in SL, they discover that making money isn't easy for a newcomer, and most of the methods of doing it require the investment of real-world capital. Others just can't wrap their heads around the idea of spending real-world money to buy virtual goods; they want the nice things that they see other people have, but aren't willing (or in the case of some international users, aren't able; if you don't live in the US and don't have a credit card, it is quite difficult to actually pay money to LL and buy L$) to spend any real cash to get them.

So who are the ones that stay? Above all, I think that community determines that. People who find their tribe; people they can hang out with and share stories with, are the ones who love Second Life. There are also the content creators; the ones who get hooked on making cool things in this world. And there are the people whose great thrill is being something they can't be in real life; furries, gender crossdressers, children, robots, animals, dragons...

people who can no longer get into work to do a job due to sl's worsening instability, their frustration in trying to do so, as well the added time it takes to do said job that took far less time in the past,, and then to hear/read a bog, if they/sl cares to post it at all in a timely fashion that it's issues problems are stable or resolved when it is not,, that's got to tell you something. Thus they quit for they simply can't get to work due to sl.

I'm not sure its all complicated as people make out:

People who find things to do - Stay

Those who don't - Leave.

Those who used to have things to do but conditions change also leave.

I'd say a vic pres of a long well established Corp. had quit a lot to do as well she loved/enjoyed here, as well as being a editator to a sl mag. I know of four this week each from separate parts of the country all different servers and with sl system requirements met, who have pcs now in the shop due to sl lock ups and now cannot get back on due to repairs now needed on their pcs.

Mine as well has had major lock up issues since the last sl "fix" and restart, which never occurred before

stability is a major issue in sl
but hey with windflight you can sit and look at pretty water, what a deal.
jmh 1/2 cent

Many people have things that they want to do and yet can't tolerate many of the issues listed in the poll.

Second Life is a wonderful idea. But in practice it just doesn't work for many people.

For example - I'd quite like a big mainland plot, but I don't want to have to deal with ad farms, griefers and tier.

There's many reasons why people leave. It's quite complicated.

OMG! I had that game for the Apple II clone, the Laser 128.

Heh! And I thought the scratch-N-Sniff card was the coolest "virtual experience" then!

Ok, I haven't read this entire thread, but as someone who has recently decided to take an elongated break from SL after some 15 months' in-world, I thought I'd put my 2p's worth in. Though this is getting away from the 'newbie' experience debate to why there does seem to be a high drop out among people who have been here a while and connected with the SL experience.

It's odd, looking at my friends list, just how many people no longer log in. Hardly anyone in fact from the close circle that I ws part of towards the end of 2006/eartly 2007.

I do think there's a 'burn-out' aspect. You get to the stage where nothing 'wows' you any more. However magnificent a build or landscape or work of art may be... well, it's just another bunch of prims and textures put together to create something that is not real. Out there, RL experience is filled with the smells, the touch, the sounds... all the sensory impressions that can make any moment of here and now unforgettable if you are open to it. Anything SL offers is a pale imitation.

Then there are the people. I have increasingly found SL people to be the kind who will use others for their own ends and fulfilments. There is an incredible amount of deception - and because of that, a constant undercurrent of mistrust. Building any kind of relationship (even friendlships) can be a minefield. Particularly since SL is devoid of the complex visual cues on which we base so much of our perceptions. Then there's the other constant undercurrent of sex. Then there are the many people who seem to need drama like others need oxygen. Then there are the people who so crave to be the centre of attention that they will forego any last shred of human dignity to acheive it.

Just like RL then, you say? Perhaps, but I have grown to feel that SL is absolutely filled with that.

Oh make no mistake, I have made some good friends here. But it's just so much easier now to keep in touch my e-mail and other more reliable systems rather that face the tecnnical frustrations of SL every time we want to chat.

So do something, create something. Well yes, I did enjoy making basic clothes which I liked to give away. But to take my skills to another level would have taken a big investment of time that I simply don't have.

Then, I'm afraid, there was one massive realisation: in a world of infinite possibilities, what do so many people spend their time doing? Shopping. Which to me, sums up the level of 'your imagination' that it seems most people bring to SL.

I'm sorry if that has offended some - and feel free to backlash. I'm past caring. RL is filled with infinite possibilities too. RL is our world, our imagination. And I am afraid I have experienced just too many people using SL to escape from the challenges and experiences that make us living, vibrant and amazing human beings.

Please note that I am expressing feelings gained from my own expereinces in-world. Yes, I have seen one or two examples of SL being a good thing for people. A very good friend who is disabled for example. But these examples are very few and far between, and are outweighed by the negaitves for me at least.

As (here at least) we move towards spring and more sunny days with warm evenings, it makes me a little sad to think of people who will be stuck behind monitors, experiencing life through a frantasy while the real world breathes and lives and loves outside their window.

Above all perhaps, SL is simply TOO immersive and addictive for some of us. I think many people find it affecting their real lives negatively and decide to get out. For the sake of themselves, their families and their futures.

God this was a depressing post. I am sorry.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think you're missing something fundamental about SL and that is that SL can be quite stimulating. We can wake up, log on and immediately be stimulated.

Despite RL's beauty it can also be very dull and repetetive, and real people can be very guarded, fearful and sometimes scary.

It's also difficult to create anything in RL that doesn't involve getting blisters.

The problem is that SL's "infinite possibilities" are kind of mixed up.

SL doesn't really have infinite possibilities at all. At the lowest level, all you're doing is seeing things on a screen. At a medium level, there's the range of basic functionality that SL supports, enacted in different ways.

The only way SL can have infinite possibilities is if you're prepared to suspend your disbelief enough to accept them. However, many people will not do that unless there is a benefit to doing so, for them. If I feel - as at least some newbies do - that I'm a pauper and everyone around me is much richer and more privileged, then I'm not going to believe that others live in mansions and I don't get to because that only makes me the loser. I'm going to believe that they spent a lot of money on prims and space on an online game, and I didn't, so I'm the winner.

Shopping helps people suspend disbelief. If I've just spend some real money on buying a hoverbike for my avatar, then of course I'm going to want to have value for my money, so I'm going to invest more of my imagination into believing that I really have an amazing hoverbike now, rather than that I just spent some real money for prims.

It's the critical flaw of many role-playing simulators and it could well apply to SL as a whole.

Nature of Economy

"I'm here to make money not spend it."
"Give me a copybot so I can open a store"

Sorry to hear you so downbeat Kelly... but I guess it's understandable

SL for me changed dramatically when I took a break in March to May of last year, came back and found half my friends had left, or were on the cusp of doing so... so I changed tack, stopped socialising and began to work.

Several months later I now find myself a virtual recluse on the island where my shop resides, barely TPing off it's shores - and when I do it's often to HIP, where I first met my friends as was some 14 months ago; as I've completely lost any notion of what else to do.

But I stay... and the reason I stay is that I'm being creative in my limited capacity (I was never an artist...), which is a first for me.

That and I'm making a few dollars here and there and I'm OCD when it comes to checking my balance...

Had it not been for the shop I guess I would have walked in July...

I did walk in July, at least from the account I was in. There was an intial burst of "newness" with creating a new account, and for the first time I actually found a community to play with . . . then that community spread to the ends of SL and the island itself completely changed direction. That community died.

If not for a certain group I'd have left . . . ooh probably in September, and I know I would have left in November but for a certain person.

My then boyfriend now exboyfriend used to watch me in-world and thought it was cool so he joined. He logged on 3 times and was so frustrated he gave up, to never log on again.

I finally saw this thread, so pardon me for sharing redundant thoughts. Michael makes a great point that LL has ignored. Why not offer goals to people, like in a...dare I say it...a game!

For instance, when I first joined you had the opportunity to rate other people based on various things, like building and creation skills. It was fun to get rated and felt good to give someone kudos for a wonderful house they designed or script they invented. LL removed it for some reason. Don't know why...

Why can't LL develop some structured activities/objectives that one can do and then be rewarded for completing? Why can't there actually be a "Game" as one option to SL? You are given a set of objectives: get married, build a business that makes L$xx for one month, make 10 friends, slay a dragon, win a go-kart race, perform in a virtual concert, get a degree in some SL scripting course, dance naked in the LL offices, anything! You then get a gold star, L$ rewards, chocolates! Again, anything. It's not what the objectives and rewards are, it's that you strive for them. (This could be done by LL as a tiny test-marketing opportunity, something I'm sure they have no idea how to implement or measure.)

During my life in SL I did most all of the things one can do here: sex, shopping, building, clothes-making, scripting, real estate trading, retail store owning and it's getting old. What's the goal of all this?

In RL, I do have goals: good career, living with my significant other forever, making great friends, eating wonderful food, traveling, finding the true meaning of life. There are rewards to them. The only rewards LL has developed for SL folks is to make money.

Again, why not create lifestyles and goals to attain in those lifestyles: artist lifestyle, with goals of creating unique art that is recognized and awarded. Sportsman lifestyle, with goals to master 4(pick a number) different SL sports and win competitions in them. Business owner lifestyle, with goals of creating a unique product that is successful based on some formula that includes sales and customer satisfaction.

The fact is, many, many people do not have imaginations. They need direction. They need structure. (How do you think Martha Stewart became successful? She made people feel they were being creative by telling them exactly what to create.)

Why do I stay? The three good friends I made and the hope that I'll meet more good people like them. Plus the fact that I get to reinvent myself every other day. Of course, I do have imagination. But if LL is looking for big numbers of real people who stay with SL, it needs to address the elephant in the middle of the room: this IS a Game.

I was a hardcore The Sims 2 fan but after all the computer issues they had, I finally gave up. It was about that time that I heard about this game on a tv show and it seemed really interesting. So I signed on to check it out. OI was totally confusing. I had no idea what to do or where to go and everyone around me was just as lost as I was. But still I decided to "hang-in" there because it looked so great on tv and the possibilities seemed endless.

I finally made my way onto the "mainland" and went looking for the amazing scenary that I'd seen. Still I was completely confused and lost. After an hour of wondering around aimlessly I was about to throw in the towel when I came across my first "store". Then this strange "world" began to take shape for me. I LOVED building my houses in TS2, but in SL it's on a whole different level. The Sims 2 seems so kindergarden compared to what I can do here. I met a few people and after a while I realized that my friend's list is very steady. The people who expect hassle-free "mature" encounters are fooling themselves. One guy, while trying to convince me to "sleep" with him said, "Hey, it's only a game." I told him that it was a game, but there were still real people behind the keyboards.

This game isn't like many of the games out there. I like the fact that it's open-ended. I like open-ended games, which was why I became addicted to The Sims in the first place. But the fact that you're their alone was a drawback. Not here. I'm a noob and I'm totally addicted. I don't know anything about building or scripting or ... anything, but I want to learn. And just like life, you get out what you put in. Or, that's the way I see it.

Amen.
Perhaps that single line is the most pertinent one of this entire thread.