Utopia in SL: our world, our imagination, our rules...

Neat!

Last night a couple of friends and I worked through a bottle of Chivas Blue.

And you didn't call me?

I tried, but you were too busy playing computer games.

Besides, it was up in the mountains, by a lake. Much too cold for the likes of you.

We all need a drink after this. Any taker? Then we will all be like LL, totally lost and couldn't find its way home

Yes, I think the US govt had confiscated the entire ship out in international water because they tried to broadcast air waves. That's what a superpower does to its own citizens.

But I think the idea of Utopia is never any one particular form or shape of society or government, but a hybrid type of various kinds of community.

I think Utopia is more akin to the tolerant Dutch culture:
* You do your own thing
* I do mine

* I live my life
* You live yours

* I won't tell you what you should be doing
* You don't tell me what I should be doing

* I may not like what you do; I won't do what you do because that's not my thing
* but it's perfectly ok with me what you do, because I am not you

It's the acceptance and non-interference that makes it utopia.
It's the tolerance.

It is 180 degree opposite to the zero-tolerance control freak American culture.

So in utopia,
* you can have a continent A that is totally free, mixed use, or whatever.
* Another continent B that is zoned, rigidly prescribed control freak.
* Continent A does not interfere with Continent B, and vice versa.

That is respecting each other's sovereignty.

It is the co-existence principle.

I know that does not exist in the real world, which is why there are wars who infringe on other's sovereignty that is the culprit. But it doesn't have to be that way in our utopia virtual reality world.

Actually I was trying to say "autonomous" when referring to the seasteads, not "sovereign." Don't know where that came from. It gives the wrong impression.

Bambi, your idea of Utopia sounds a lot like my scotch fueled musings about "ideological diversity." Maybe different ideologies are as necessary to the survival of the species as bio-diversity is to the environment. Your version has the added bonus of the two diferent extremes actually tolerating each other.

Not sure how that will work, but maybe a virtual world is a good place to try it. Hope we CAN try it someday, maybe even with different grids that are connected somehow.

But whew - ! All that thinking hurt my little head. I'm going for a hot cocoa and some deep sleep.

Good that you brought up the analogy of bio-diversity.

There is the predator-prey model and there is the symbiosis model.

I think LL chose the predator-prey model to drive out what they see as "undesirable" preys that needed to be exterminated, and poor us, being preys to the bully predator, would have no chance for survival, and die out. So the prey population drops, which then leads to the fall of the predators because they starve to dead without the very food source they depend on from the preys they ate -- the classic predator-prey cycle. With the fall of the predator, the preys start to re-bound without the predator around.

Had they learned that law of nature? I doubt it. What do you expect from a bull?

On the other hand, the symbiosis model allows for the co-existence of both species, each benefiting each other, and each cannot survive without the other, which makes it a mutual pair of cooperation and collaboration to ensure the survival of both. It's a natural partnership that works out a win-win solution rather than the win-lose antagonism in predator-prey model where your loss is their gain.

It is not a hard concept to envision, and it exists in the biological kingdom, and survived for billions of years since day 1 of evolution some 3 billion years ago on earth in 4.5 billion years of our earth's existence. So it works, and it can work. It is not a fantasy. It is reality.

May I suggest that if another country is dismayed by the sterility of the U.S., they are perfectly free to offer foreign aid to augment our impoverished culture. Let me know when it happens.

Oh, and zoning exists in Europe. For example, zoning policy within Amsterdam is administered by the Physical Planning Department (Dienst Ruimtelijke Ordening). The DRO is matrix managed, so it is difficult to disentangle which subdepartment is responsible for zoning, and my Dutch is not good enough to quickly sort it. However, I do know that there are many lawyers in the city who specialize in zoning and other land use questions.One thing that may differentiate between the citizenry of a superpower and that of other countries is the definition of "tolerance". One of the first precepts of a 'tolerant' individual in the U.S. is that they not engage in wholesale bashing of other countries; it is sure to be seen as an attempt to oppress those other countries.
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So much here to bash it is hard to choose- and i wouldn't be as polite and subtle as Nika just was -
suffice to say I for one am quite pleased Bambi is not standing on American soil further degrading our lack of culture and freedom- she obviously didnt read her own "* I may not like what you do; I won't do what you do because that's not my thing
* but it's perfectly ok with me what you do, because I am not you" Since we are not so OK to her it would seem. I might further point out, it was this very same country whose lack of culture she bemoans that brought us SL in the first place.

Well, it is true that not every city in the US is zoned.

In fact, Houston is a good example where there is no zoning and it will never be any zoning in Houston. Why? Because it is the Wild West culture with the belief that "This is my land! I can do whatever I want to do with my land. Stay out of my land. If you ever enter my property, I will shoot. End of story." I lived in it, and I know what it is like. Just because it is not zoned, doesn't make it any more different than any other US cities.

So here you go, I am not ignorant, nor naive nor inconsiderate of others in making a general statement as an illustrative example.

What US cities have I lived in? the East Coast, the West Coast, the Gulf Coast, and the Great Plains. From ocean across the ocean.

I love my country, and that is why I am critical of what it does. In fact, the hallmark of being an American is the ability and proud to be able to criticize your own government without shame, because that is what the founding principle of America, and what our forefather and foremother had in mind in founding this country.

If you think this is bashing a country, then I think there is something lacking in your ability to self-examine yourself and your own country, and be critical of your own behavior.

Self-police is the best police. That is utopia!!!

You don't need anyone to police your own conduct if you have the mental faculty and intellect to not just tell others what they did was wrong, but the ability to acknowledge your own fault too.

I wish everyone have the intellect to do that, but sadly, I have to admit, I am probably very wrong to have made that assumption.

Peace....

This is just an intellectual exercise. Take a deep breath, and relax.

If SL is gone tomorrow, we still have ourselves in RL. The world won't fall apart tomorrow even if SL is vaporized.

/me applauds Eku wildly!

USA-bashing aside, I have to side a bit with Bambi on this one...Utopia for me would be everybody leaving me the hell alone. No zoning boards, no IRS, no people calling me up with their hands out for money In SL, no griefers bothering me and no LL changing the rules every three months. And no crashes.

Ok, finally someone sees the light.

How funny to see what people read into these things!

It is not bashing whatsoever... It is called playing "Devil's Advocate"

You know, even if you were a saint, you still have to play the devil and take a stance from the view of your enemy to make a point across in a debate. Get it?

Hmmm... if you all still don't understand this concept, it is called "Role Playing" in SL, duh!

You play the role of someone who you are not just to get the shock value out of it. HaHa.

-- the little devil

Relatively few folks role-play in these forums; and if role-play is done solely for shock value or to cause discord, another word for it might be "trolling".

As for the content: "There are dark shadows on the earth, but its lights are stronger in the contrast. Some men, like bats or owls, have better eyes for the darkness than for the light."

/me fetches Bambi glasses, so that she can see a better-lit world.

Yes, Nika, that's the beauty of bio-diversity. No single viewpoint, yet we all live in harmony.

If we all see and think the same way, we would all be robots. If all avatars in SL were bots, it would not stir up any commotions in any of us. They would say, what is this fuss with these humans? Too bad we are not bots, or luckily we are not bots, whichever way you choose to think.

The fact is, if we never take a hard look at ourselves, we could be walking like zombie and keep doing or thinking the same way as we were programmed before by our own culture.

It is not troll because it is not done with malicious intent nor random argument for the sake of argument; it is done with the point-counterpoint in mind. For every argument, there is always a counter-argument in an intellectual exercise. A thought experiment if you may say.

The way to find out about the truth is to find out which of these arguments contradicts each other, and which one is consistent. If people have not gone through this exercise, they may not see it for yourself whether any of the presumed premise is valid, and/or which conclusion is falsifiable. The reason why it brings the gut feeling response is precisely what brings people out of their "comfort zone," so to speak, so we can look at them squarely rather than dancing around it.

Of course, bats and marine mammals have echolocation ability to see by sound, owls can triangulate with their ears for spatial localization of prey, snakes have infra-red sensor for night-vision, fish have the ability to detect electric currents to see in dark, even insects can see ultra-violet light that human cannot see. So, yes, you are correct, humans are very limited in our vision that relies solely on light to see thing.

But, hey, my avatar can see with radar better than I can, so thank you, avatar, you saved my day... I don't need light to see

I'm not going to vote on a poll with such silly options if I'm not going to get pie!

And I don't think anyone else should.

I can't even figure out what these options are even supposed to *mean*.

I think the recent gift exchange between the President of the US and the Prime Minister of the UK counts.

That's absolutely true that straw poll has utterly no meaning to it.

It would be out of the mind if anyone thinks I run LL or has a remote chance that LL is listening to this.

The non-scientific poll is for entertainment purpose only.

It is a parody of how useless and meaningless an exercise when LL asked you to talk about their policy in the forum that they already had set in stone.

Should I put a disclaimer warning label to it, just so that you would know it will do no harm to your mental ability or insult your intelligence if you click that button?

This poll doesn't even aspire to meaninglessness.

BTW, Parental Guidance is not required to vote or discuss anything here.

And, yes, there were typo errors in those poll questions, and I don't bother to correct them because it is meaningless one way or another.

Now, that is trolling according to the definition of random comments to a thread to stir up a reaction.

But, that is perfectly okay for me, because utopia is free for all.

Utopia is tolerant of others even though we don't think or see the same, disagree, or create annoyance. That is part of living together under the big umbrella of the universe, co-exist without banning the others into non-existence.

So if someone has too much time in their hands to do that, by all means, you are welcome in my utopia.

It is not a concept that is so hard to fathom, or is it?

Alas, it didn't get the reaction I was hoping for, which was a coherent explanation.

Too bad I'm homeless. Otherwise I will invite you all to my utopia that is free for all It's all welcome...