Ginko Has Not Allowed Withdraws For Over A Day Now...

Call the FBI on what? What are you going to do... "Yes hello, FBI somebody ripped me for all my Lindens".

Just because somebody claims to be a bank does not mean they are one. No place on that so called banks web site do I see where it says FDIC. People who made this kid (notice I said kid, which I bet is what he will end up being) rich by going "here take my money and make me rich" should really stop thinking they are going to find some get rick quick deal on SL. If you want to put your money in a bank, go find a real one in the real world!

People need to learn to read the small print....
I love this part from their web site...
"Ginko Financial and its affiliated businesses are not registered in any way with any governmental organization.
Not warranted, guaranteed, or insured."

SMART! VERY SMART! Looks like a clear disclaimer right there to me.


Fact of the matter is the only thing thats going to happen with all this is some kid is going to be sitting on a nice account someplace and there is going to be pissed off people in SL. Sounds like a normal day in SL to me.

At least it makes for some interesting reading for breakfast here.

Also, it is quite interesting to see how this plays out. I pulled whatever I had with Ginko a while ago, but agree with those saying you should know the risk involved when you put your money into a SL "bank".

i'm starting to experience "thread lag" but honestly well in the pages i was looking at anyhow there is not a whole lot of arguing unless you count the banker dude arguing or rather insulting some of the posters. Honestly a lot of us are curiously fascinated by this errm "thing" here. The people that would have to blow the whistle is someone actually being hurt (not sure someone may be doing this as we speak), but for the rest of us its mostly an issue of watching "all your base belong to us" only with lindens instead

When you have about $750,000 tied up in all this... it's not just "play money" any more.

I don't have any money in Ginko ... wouldn't trust anyone else with my money, but I do feel sorry for all the people who have been caught up in this mess.

Broccoli

I do feel sorry for them but come on... Use your head people, I mean really. They even spell it out for you on their web site...

"Ginko Financial and its affiliated businesses are not registered in any way with any governmental organization.
Not warranted, guaranteed, or insured."

Not warranted, guaranteed or isured. All red flag words....

Point is... Use a RL bank if you want to store money.

Well, it's pretty obvious Nicholas has no intention of giving any Joy here, Investors are best advised at this point to Contact probably State or more likely Federal authorities (As interstate transfer of funds has taken place), and begin lodging complaints of Possible Internet Fraud. Despite Voodoo's lack of understanding that the Assets apparently stolen Can be converted, a Sizable amount of RL money Appears to have been Misappropriated and the More people who Lodge complaints, the faster an investigation can, and will be Instigated.

Nothing more can be acheived here.

Angel.

My lack of understanding?

Ok lets try this again... Their site has a complete disclaimer!
"Ginko Financial and its affiliated businesses are not registered in any way with any governmental organization.
Not warranted, guaranteed, or insured."

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending this clown at all! But it drives me nuts when people try to cover their lack of checking things out before jumping with BS.

The so called bank is NOT FDIC. And you should really read more of your legal sites to find out what internet fruad is becuase this does not fall under it. People got suckered, plain and simple and yes it sucks but get the facts right. The most that will happen is SL will ban him... Big deal. He got what he wanted, the money. The only way to stop this kind of crap in SL is for people to stop giving them your money!

If I were Ginko, I would stop accepting deposits, stop awarding interest, and begin the process of liquidating assets in a responsible manner and repaying investors. If I were a Ginko depositor, I would be hanging around the ATM trying every few minutes to cash out what I could. In fact, I am neither. What's interesting is how many people have no real stake (other than sharing the same virtual economy) but are screaming "Ponzi" or "Bank run!" or whatever with no real information.

The depositors all made their deposits knowing nothing about how the money would be invested or what would happen if Ginko ran into trouble. It's understandable but a little late to start insisting on transparency now. Presumably the high interest rates and ease of putting money in and out of the system lured them into making their deposits; their desire for easy profits at some point outweighed any hesitation caused by lack of knowledge or trust; now that the prospect of easy profits are gone, the distrust and ignorance remain alone in the room.

We may or may not know ultimately whether Ginko was a Ponzi scheme, invested criminally, or was legit; I'm probably not the only person here who can imagine Ginko claiming insolvency, paying out some tiny percentage of deposits to depositors, and closing shop.

But who cares? It's fun to rile things up, right?

According to Wayback, the site has been around for about a year. Ginko has been around for approx. three years. Lord knows when the disclaimer first appeared.

Regardless, I'd like to hear more about your hard, fast assertion that Ginko isn't a fraud. Do you have inside information (which confirms it's not a Ponzi scheme for example)?

AFAICT, Linden dollars are fungible, so real currency or not, it is certainly possible to do illegal things like commit fraud with them, or use them as a vehicle for money laundering (something LL has already been concerned enough about to introduce the RISK API).

Broccoli: I was asked to remove a post earlier in this thread by somebody concerned that I was giving too many details about a situation which could end up in court. It is safe to say however that any complaints filed in the UK will be referred to the Met Police's Computer Crime Unit, and in at least one Ginko related case, they have decided to consult with the US authorities. If I know one person who has contacted the authorities about Ginko, I'd be very surprised if others haven't too - particularly those who had hundreds or thousands of dollars "invested". (Silly or not, lets avoid taking this thread down the smug "people are stupid", "I told you so" route.)

Yeah, they're next. The whole stupid chain of dominos is ready to go and in the long run, everybody will be a lot better off when this asinine idea that "it's virtual, so regular rules of economics don't apply," gets blown clear out of the water, as it must.

In fact, if you know of a bank offering exorbitant rates of return, email me at [email]benjamin@virtuallyblind.com[/email]. I'll run a list and do some research. I've talked to too many good people who got burned by this crap this week to not spend a little time looking into these. It's bs. The stock markets, people go into those with their eyes open, to some degree. These? They say they're "banks" and that's crap. They are -- at best -- incredibly high risk investment funds, and at worst, fraud. If they *advertise* an interest rate you have a right to expect it, and to expect to be able to withdraw. Hell, I could offer to take your money and do the best I can with it -- and that's fine. But if I give you a number, I *have to hit that number* -- otherwise it's fraud.

So rule of thumb? A "bank" that says it will add "interest" in your account at more than 7% per year is suspicious as hell. Investment funds can definitely beat that, but they're honest about the risks and don't promise anything. Shoot me an IM ('Benjamin Noble') or send an email (address above) if you want to chat about something you're considering.

Here I thought we all needed a happy song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA

Damn skippy. Instead, they're still taking deposits.

What's sad here is that the current rates are semi-reasonable (3.65% year for standard, up to 18.25% a year for long-term deposits). If they work it out right, they can probably hit these. If this had been the plan from the beginning, they'd have probably been fine -- it's aggressive but not completely absurd.

I fail to see any of your points proven, could you please point them out to me?

She's not far off, you're not accounting for your investment. You paid L$1 million to develop the sim, you have to subtract that. At 100k a month that's 10 months before you break even. So I get 20%, which means her point was valid, it's well below your required rate of return.

and remember...."it could potentially earn 100K a month"

so its not actually earning that at the moment, thats just the potential earnings.

What are the actual earnings?

Yes. The word 'potential' has been coming up a lot in my readings.

Oh, there's *plenty* of "real information" going around since this situation popped up on the radar bigger than life.

The plain and simple fact that the owner FAILS to go through any reasonable professional efforts to allay the fears of his customers to CURB the problem, nipping it in the bud, as it were, gives plenty of credence to even the wildest speculations about the inner goings-on of his service.



Oh, absolutely, but just because one disclaims responsibility for properly managing people's funny money for them doesn't automatically absolve one of being accused of unethical practices ex post facto. It is also NEVER too late to ask your financial institution for transparency. It might be too late to do anything about funds already in the bank, but it sure can help allay FUD, if it truly is FUD, and stop problems like runs. Right now, there is a runaway run on the organization, which may well result in its imminent failure. One thing is for sure, though: many folks, who might otherwise help an honest, yet struggling organization, willing to be transparent enough to elicit trust and confidence, and receive aid in the form of patronage, will be running as far away from it as possible now.



Most people are motivated by greed and insulated in their judgment by ignorance. They see something called a "bank" in SL, using nice, functional ATMs and a fairly prolific presence. Probably very few actually took the time to research the company and its policies. Yeah, that was probably pretty dumb, and it will be a learning experience for most of them, too.



I think it has been adequately shown, via the preponderance of the available circumstantial evidence and the absolute vacuum of counter-evidence, that it is highly likely that it is a textbook Ponzi scheme. There is no evidence that there was any investment in anything that could potentially yield anywhere near the payout interest rate. I agree with Desk Jockey's assessment that it could have been a Ponzi scheme by design and intent, or just a very bad business plan developed by someone inexperienced/incompetent/whatever in the financial field which ended up turning into one. Granted it is nowhere near as blatant as the one Charles Ponzi himself perpetrated back in the early 1920s, but that is simply a matter of degree, not classification.



Sure. If it produces positive change in the long run in one form or another; if it educates and brings light to the dark; then it is both fun AND productive.

You appear as a company not to be able to meet your liabilities, and are unable to say when you will be able to meet those responsibilities. A reasonable conclusion from your words I have seen published is that you are probably insolvent. If that is so, the normal course of action would be to liquidate the assets for whatever price they could fetch, even if it's at a loss, in order to return whatever funds were possible to creditors.

As painful as the questions may be, yes, I also think it's important that they be asked. People should have as much knowledge as they can get to make their decisions on.

Generally, I think the people asking questions are doing so out of a sense of social responibilty. I don't think it brings anyone any joy that it appears a lot of people could lose their money.

at least he is trying...im not making excuses for him, but i will give him credit on TRYING to make good to those who banked with him. He could have ran after the WSE fiasco, He could have run the last time it was dog pile on the banker, in both cases he stayed. and that to me speaks volumes.
and for the record, if it wasn't for the vultures posting doom and gloom in these forums regardig ginko, there wouldnt have been a massive run on the bank, which, since you insist on applying rl banking laws onto a virtual economy, would cause a rl bank to fold, making sure those who do have money invested or banked with ginko to not get a dime.

if you wish to point fingers, point them at yourselves.

After my post of around page 12 where I asked if Ginko would produce a clear asset/liability/account, and the refusal by Nicholas to do so it appears to me that:

1) Nicholas will not account for off world assets

2) Nicholas has lost the confidence of at least a substantial minority of all his depositors.

3) Ginko's bank run will not end unless he is able to restore confidence in his business, which may involve selling assets at a deep discount to par, (and assuming they actually exsit) to repay all clients seeking an exit. Clients seeking an exit are likely to be at least a substantial minority of Ginko's deposit base.

4) It seems to me that confidence in Ginko is unlikely to be restored while Nicholas is in charge. In fact Nicholas's mere presence is damming all Ginko depositors and by implication Second Life itself and Linden Labs.

5) There is ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION. Nicholas must sell the entire Ginko operation to another avatar who by their mere presence may just possibly inspire some confidence.

There is ONE avatar that may be suited to run Ginko, and would be able to afford to employ sufficient people with banking and/or investment talent.

That avatar is ANSHE CHUNG

Anshe has just purchased another on-line bank in a separate Universe/platform, called Entropia. Here is the link to prove that fact.

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=733216&k=chung


She paid $60,000 US for this licence and is requited to capitalise it to the tune of $100,000. Clearly there is money in virtual banks.

Anshe may welcome access to what remains of Ginko's assets to assist her in capitalising her new venture.

I personally trust Anshe Chung undoubted business ability in virtual worlds, and I personally believe she is honest having had business dealing with the good lady.

I would suggest all Ginko depositors petition Anshe Chung to take over the running of Ginko, even if it means some debts have to written off. At least you might get a return on some of your capital.

Nicholas I suggest you bow to the inevitable and accept this if Anshe is prepared to assist even it if means she gets the business for nothing

In first life terms Anshe Chung (if she did this) would be known as a "White Knight" to use a stock market term.

That’s my view

Anshe Chung, inspiring confidence? Are you serious?

Are you really, really serious?

If anyone is perceived as less trustworthy than the Ginko owner, it'd be Anshe.

Maybe. But I've seen the same gleeful feeding frenzy over land dealers ("I can't wait for the market to crash! I hope they lose it all!", landbots ("Ban them! Seize their assets!", the ad-farmers, etc. In this case SL "banks" in general--and Ginko in particular--have been marked as the bad guys du jour and the torches and pitchforks are out. Well-deserved if Ginko is a big fraud, but actually contributing to people losing their money if Ginko is just an amateur bank in a tight spot.

If everyone is so socially responsible and doesn't want people to lose money, where were they when casinos were raking it in? It seems sometimes we're responsible adults, allowed to spend our money as we see fit, but other times we're dupes, needing the protection of more enlightened residents. But most of all we're just snarky.

Hahahaha comedy quote of the week!

Now, before everyone jumps on Mr. Horner for suggesting Anshe...

I despise Anshe and Anshe Co. I think they have a bland, "corporate" flavor that is a bad influence on SL, and I detest old-world, mainland land barons. Particularly ones that were part of the "buy, return, flatten, stick up huge ugly sign" variety, which most, including her, were.

But I have never, once, questioned her business ability. Set aside whatever you might feel about her ethics, personality, whatever. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding - she has succeeded spectacularly in SL.

If I were an investor in Ginko (As it happens, I can do basic math, so I'm not), I would cheer if Anshe came to save the day. Having said that, remember that I have never questioned Anshe's business ability. I can't see her getting involved in this, for precisely that reason.