Buying Land - mainland or private sim?

Hi guys,

Looking to make my first real dive into SL land. a friend and I want to buy, but have mixed ideas on which is better, mainland or Private.

Obviously mainland has the advantage of better security ( cant loose it from a sim owner selling)- private is generally cheaper. what are the other pros and cons?


Any one got any suggestions of what we should consider - and maybe recommend some good reliable private sims..


Looking to purchase about 8000m2 for rental properties or possibly a club.

looking forward to hearng from those wiser than me.

Mya

do a search for Fire Island, they have land available there, I think the island owner is quite trustworthy, 3 areas of land there already get good traffic.

however there is a club already there. you could do a search in the threads, many landlords have been recommended in them

One of the big downsides of buying Mainland is that people will tell you it's crazy and that you should be buying PI.
One of the big downsides of buying PI is that people will tell you it's crazy and that you should be buying Mainland.

An upside of PI can be zoning However, if you're doing a club, then you are up against zoning and questions about your scripts. You would be one of the main reasons that people want zoning.
An upside of Mainland is that you deal directly with God on ownership.

If you buy PI, you will be advised to buy from someone "reliable" and with a "good reputation". There isn't a list of all such people.


I'm prejudiced on the question.
I've never seriously considered buying PI.

I never thought to ask for advice.
You have asked for advice.
This probably implies that you are wiser than me, and as you have asked for advice from those wiser than you, you can ignore my advice

Ah!
I didn't give any, so here it is.

The club thing would also be a considerable investment in time. Putting it on mainland - where it stays unless you neglect to pay tier to LL - might be less worrisome.

On Mainland, the neighbours can be a bit of a lottery.
With an 80k parcel, many of those problems are reduced considerably.
Take a once-off hit on cost and buy more expensive land with a Liden protected sim on a boundary or two. The ongoing tier is exactly the same as for a parcel buried in others. Such land might be easier to unload if you wanted to cash out.



On the other hand, maybe dependability of the landlord isn't a real concern.
It seems to be that the most and best fun people get from doing a club is the setting up and the initial rush of it all. Quite a few seem to fold.
Just have a blast creating it and be prepared to walk away if it stops being fun.

Mainland, water, Corsica sims.

Easily the best out there in my opinion.

Try for protected water both sides if you can afford it. I wish I could buy where our house is! I've told the estate owner that if she ever sells, we want the sim!

PS Sling tells the truth. Running places is expensive (unless you are doing it PURELY for fun and at a loss sustained on that basis). I love making things, but then they get dull to me ... it's the knowledge that others are seeing my place as a piece of SL (as opposed to the prims I played with till they did what I want) making me stay open

Must say I hear mainly bad things about Mainland but I think the simplest idea is to find somewhere and ask the other tenants how they get on with their Sim owner.

Personally I have had very little problems with where I own land but I do know that the owner has 6 Sims and problems do happen and as far as I know he gets it sorted out real quick and now he has 3 managers for the Sims so as you can see he seems to care that his sims are running smoothly and that keeps the customers staying (NO I don't get a backhander off him lol). You can IM me if you want and I'll give you the LMs to his commercial land.

So really it's just a case of looking around seeing what the neighbours think and go for it.

really the only negitive things i have ever heard about mainland land is from PI owners trying to scare you into buying from them which your not doing btw unless your buying a whole island.

so to be brutally honest your renting unless you buy a whole island or buy mainland.if the person desideds to not pay there teir your out period

QFT

I've never really seen the point of paying a lot of money up front for the right to rent.

That said, there are a lot of top notch estate owners out there. As others have said, go, look and talk to the residents about their experiences. IM the estate owner with questions about what you want to do and see how they respond BEFORE you pay. Read the covenant carefully.

Much of the mainland is NOT the cesspool that many make it out to be either. That there is no zoning allows you to build whatever you want on your land as long as it doesn't violate Community Standards and/or Terms of Service. Again, look around and, if possible, chat with potential neighbors. Get the lay of the land and see how your ideas will fit in.

Considering now that the sky is up to 4096, there is plenty of room to build on mainland that isn't offensive to the eye.

That is IF you can get the RC client to actually run for more than 5 minutes.

I've had good luck with private island land (good estate owners). I've also had good luck with mainland (good neighbors).

For islands, find someone who owns more than one. Preferably ten or more. These people are in it for the long haul, and reputation is important to them. Then, do a search on their name in fhe forums here and in third party forums like SL Universe. Also, ask some of the other residents there.

For mainland, look around at the neighbors. Are their builds tasteful? Is there another club on the sim (possible script/particle lag issues!) Have they been there a long time? Are the parcels large (or, if subdivided, are large numbers of parcels owned by the same person)? Is there access to protected Linden water? This might not matter to you, but it does affect the price and the resale value of the land.

In either case, success involves doing your homework. For islands, that means researching the estate owner. For mainland, it means researching the neighbors.

I think it depends a lot on what you are trying to do.

Running a club is a money pit, from everything I have read - clubs are ten-a-penny and, unless you are doing something drastically different from everything else that is already in SL, I would ask you why you would do it.

Rentals are a business proposition, pure and simple. You're going to have to deal with supporting your tenants and all that drama. Take a look around and find out which rental properties are sitting empty and which ones are full. Because if your end up being mostly empty, then again you own a money pit.

If you buy land to sublet on a PI, then you are going to be responsible for making sure that your subletters stick to the land owners covenants - if they don't, then the land owner might well take back everything you own without paying you anything - this can't really happen on mainland.

Just some points to ponder

If you want a club buy mainland. You're still renting, everything here land wise is rented, but if you buy mainland then the neighbours have no real room for complaint, which they will have on a private island.

Like some others who have answered, I never considered renting on an estate. I bought some mainland quite early after I joined SL, and just last week sold it to buy more mainland on the aready-mentioned Corsica sims--a plot that has protected water on one side. I found selling my older mainland easy--I went through a real estate agent.

I know that there are responsible estate owners out there. I just can't get around the fact that the only legal contract is between the estate owner and LL. Any agreement between a tenant and an estate owner is merely an in-game agreement with no more legal force than any role-playing agreement. There is no contract protecting the rights of an estate tenant. A tenant on an estate is there purely at the whim of the estate owner. If the estate owner changes his mind, then all the landscaping, all the effort made by a tenant to make the parcel nice--poof!--is gone. I can't live with that insecurity.

On the other hand, on the mainland, one doesn't know from one day to the next who one's neighbors might be, or what build might go up next door. Some people find that insecurity unacceptable. I don't. As long as I know that I have total control (within the terms of the TOS) over the land for which I pay tier, I don't care so much what happens next door.

So, if you want a "gated community" which will be free from bad builds, and are ok with trusting to the whim of an estate owner, than an estate might be best. If you want to be secure that you alone decide how long you will stay on your land and have control over how and what you build, and are ok with an ever-changing neighborhood, than mainland might be best.

Also, if you do go with an estate, please remember to check their tier against that of LL--some cost quite a bit more per meter per month than mainland tier.

Best wishes!

Hand in hand with the difference in security of your ownership in estate land is it's decreased marketability for resale compared to mainland as a result. These are probably the biggest downsides to having a parcel on estate land.

A double edged sword for estate land is possible zoning rules in the land covenants. It can help you enjoy your land by restricting use of ban lines, ugly builds and clubs, but if you're the one that wants to do any of these things (and ugly is of course somewhat subjective) then that can be a negative.

Similarly a downside to owning a mainland parcel is that you have no protection from your neighbors doing such things. It is feasible that you may not even be able to access your land if there is a club owner on the sim and he has 40 or so people at his club.

That leads to another advantage of estate land. Estate land has no hard limitation to the number of avatars that it can hold. I've seen as many as 90 on a sim although it was very laggy.

Additionally if you have estate land you have an extra source of support in the estate owner (assuming it is a good estate owner).

If you own mainland you can take advantage of your tier free 512 sqm that comes with premium membership.

That's about all I can think of for now.

Sigh. We just had this discussion a few weeks ago, yet people still get it wrong.

If you really wanted, there's nothing stopping you from negotiating a written contract with the RL estate owner, getting it signed and notarized, etc. So don't rule out a private island if the estate owner will do this.

But more importantly, there is almost certainly a contract. It's harder to enforce because the people are anonymous, and potentially in different countries. It's harder to enforce because the terms aren't always spelled out clearly. But that doesn't mean the contract doesn't exist, nor that it's impossible to enforce.

When you say that there is no contract, you're just making it harder on those people who might actually succeed in enforcing their contract - first, by misleading them into believing that they don't have a contract when they might. Second, by giving tacit approval to estate owners who act unfairly. Third, by feeding the counter argument that 'conventional wisdom is the contract isn't real'.

Sooner or later someone will drag an estate owner into court to enforce the contract. The buyer will pull out the covenant and the IM exchanges that talk about people buying the land on the private island. The estate owner will pull out comments like yours to argue 'all reasonable people know the estate owner has the legal right to act arbitrarily and unfairly, and here's the proof that people know that.' The court will weigh both sides, but the more people keep saying there's no contract, the stronger that argument becomes. And I can't imagine any reason you'd want to give estate owners more ammunition.

So please, get this right: Enforcing your rights with an estate owner will be much more difficult than enforcing rights with Linden Labs. Linden Labs won't help you enforce the contract unless they're forced to. A prudent buyer should understand that, and factor that into their decision. But until there's some legal precedent declaring that there is no contract, it's not our place to draw that legal conclusion.

The biggest issues I have with mainland land are:

You must be a premium member, depending how you pay 6- 10 US a month, sure u get a stipend and free tier on a 512 parcel.
No covenants so the quiet piece of land u bought last week now has neighbors with a new club, mall, or just fire dragons and those ban lines.
Generally priced more than islands.

Private islands are about sim owners, how ethical is owner, if he tanks u tank as well. We can moan about tier fees they charge but it's a business and they take risks, witness the new land prices coming out and they lost money on sims they bought.

How do u find a great sim?, shop/compare and when u think u found a good deal shop/compare again. Don't get the buy fever.

Mainland and islands same real estate rule holds, location, location, location. Land is virtual here so Linden can create more any time as they are now doing and this will effect prices if membership growth stops.

My choice is an island, I have bought and sold parcels on each. But I choose to live on an island with a great sim owner.

There is certainly a contract but the legal cost and time involved to enforce a contract with a liquidated value of only a few hundred dollars makes it impractical. Conventional wisdom is not that the contract isn't real, it's that it is not worth pursuing legal action to enforce it.

Wow....

Thanks everyone for the feedback... I'll digest it all - then see where we go.

I'll let you all know what we end up doing!..

Cheers Mya

This is a really sillly question, but how can you quickly tell when land is main or isle? In the about land settings, or by the SLURL?

thanks

About Land > Covenant tab. Most private estates will have a covenant in there. Mainland won't.

in that same tab there is a field called estate, on mainland it sais mainland there, on private estates the name of the estate.
you can also see the estate owner in that tab.

If you are looking to start a club, or a small rentals outfit *by all means* go mainland.

Most of us estate owners ban one or both; or have rather strict limitations in place.

Here's why:

1) Most clubs are obnoxious neighbours to all surrounding residents. Lag, people vampire-howling, yiffing in the bushes, you name it. Clubs can leave a 40,000 square meter crater of dismay all around them.

2) Sublease - there's nothing worse than the aftermath, when a mico-land-baron realises that 2 hours of customer service a night isn't worth the ten bucks a week they are making. Usually they just bail without paying rent after a small dramapocalypse, leaving a small horde of ripped-off, angry people the region owner wasn't even aware existed. Chaos ensues.

Nothing personal! You might be a very good person, and *never* cause all these problems. But Joe Average will - it may as well be written on his forehead.

Even on the mainland, if you come into a region and say "Hi! I'm your new neighbour! I'm starting a club next to you!" - brace yourself. The response often isn't pretty.

It can be done tastefully however - with care, respect, and... there's gonna be that one neighbour everwhere that won't like you no matter how decent you are. Never mind them - just do the right thing according to principles and you'll be okay.

But definitely - for the love of all that is good on the grid - keep those clubs and rentals on the mainland.

Hehe thanks Desmond,

I hear you loud and clear.

I am aware of those sorts of issues..... I guess I'm not yet ready to commit to the level needed to own my own sim or i would go that way...rather start smaller and see how i go...

I certainly wont take your advice personally.... but I agree I'd rather walk into it with my eyes open - i guess thats the reason for the initial post.

A guy has to start somewhere... I've been a good tenant in a terrific estate for some months now... so rest assured i do intend to do the right thing by those around me....

stay cool....

Mya

BUY mainland
or
RENT private
never
BUY private

Renting on a private estate gives you exactly the same permissions as if you bought the land, except of course you can't resell the land. With other advantages:
- You don't need to pay the hefty upfront cost
- You won't lose money if land goes down.
- You leave when you want without worrying about reselling at a loss
- You usually get better support from an estate manager than from Linden support
- There are usually zoning rules that guarantee you don't get a sex club or zombie camp next door

You can rent mainland and avoid upfront fees too, which are generally much higher than any upfront estate land fees and if you rent mainland there's a good chance that you'll pay less in rent than tier fees and premium membership cost you.