Take Warning from my Horrible Experience

I'm sorry if I'm not quite following you but you did say this:

"A few months down the line we could no longer afford the monthly tier, and decided to give up the land. I politely informed the land manager of this three days before the tier was due, expecting to make arrangements to pass the land back and get our refund. We had spent nearly 50,000 Lindens and needed the money back to pay our RL bills. That was when I was told "oh, I never said I'd buy the land back."

I don't follow the part where you expected a refund. You couldn't afford the tier. Now I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm not impressed with your landlord and someone else has said that people on that sim aren't allowed to resell. I've said that it was not right that you couldn't put a for sale sign on your land.

If you you buy land for more than say the first month's tier and then aren't allowed to resell, that's a bad deal and a complete rip off in my eyes.

Evicting you before your tier was due was also a sign of a poor landlord as you hadn't exactly been bad tenants having spent as much as you did on that estate.

Hi, they changed the profile pics, BUT, if you are so minded you can still see the original in the group logo of her partner, who has a group in his own name +Party VIP guess they forgot they left one there. So - hope I made your day, Brad

So I need to make this more clear, obviously. For people who haven't grasped it, we decided we could not justify the expense any more, wanted to sell up and move on, and therefore spoke to the Estate manager BEFORE the tier was due.

We never missed one payment. We paid about 50,000 upfront to "buy" the land, and 38 US dollars per month to "rent" it.

Okay, it was our stupid fault for assuming that we could get a refund of the initial sale price, or at least a refund of SOME kind when we left - but isn't that a natural assumption, since she can just sell the land all over again to the next buyer, AND she had our 38 dollars a month that we had paid her on top, so she wasn't exactly out of pocket. She had no reason to refuse us point blank.

As I explained in my initial post - she expects tenants to (1) buy the land for 12.7 lindens per sqm, (2) pay rent of a cent per sqm monthly, and after all that, walk away from it with nothing when you want to move. No re-sale, nothing. Not a bean.

There was NO contract that specified what happened at the end of your term of rental, when you want to move. Okay, I agree it was foolish and naive to trust her! But common sense would suggest some kind of deal could be struck where you could re-sell the land or hand it back for a partial refund of the sale price. After all, we are talking about serious RL money here.

The covenant that you can read on her land says nothing about no refunds. In fact it says very little, beyond warning you that if you don't pay tier on the 15th, they take back the land instantly. That was NOT our situation however. We did pay, and were kicked out in any case. We were still trying to get a buyer on the 14th.

We had actually been exemplary tenants - polite, helpful, respectful, friendly, and our land was the best-looking plot there. I would have thought having a for-sale sign on it would be a bonus as it was a good advertisement for her island, and would attract buyers to the place as a whole - but no. "not permitted"

Don't go anywhere near these crooks.

Always were, always will be Except in my case, sale signs were a notable feature of this island.

Look Conan, here's the deal. If you agree not to point out that we are naive, ill-informed gullible trusting fools, then I agree not to point out that you are a misguided unsympathetic trossock who didn't take the time to read the posts. K?

What does what groups they belong to have to do with it? I mean what does it matter what groups show in their profile that they are a part of? Unless there is one called "We Rip Off tenants" I fail to see the importance of making such a point like that. Sorry.

I rent a house at the moment. If I decided to buy land, it would be on the mainland. I would NEVER buy island land - the owners can kick you out, change the covenant or rules at a whim and charge far more than you would pay for nice mainland.

It sounds like you will have to say goodbye to the L50k which is wrong.

PS I want to know how long Desmond's waiting list is.

Wow!!! I am flagabasted about the treatment you have received. I am really sorry that this happened to you. I wonder how they even get people to buy land on their estate. They won't be in business for long, for sure.



As the estate manager for Kandee and her husband, and as one who has owned 2 parcels on her estate for a long time, I can vouch for the top notch service you get from her. Got a problem or a question? You have 3 real people you can IM, and you get a prompt response! Try this with LL! I have owned and rented on the mainland, and will not go back!

Just as when you do business irl, I cannot stress enough the need to do your homework before buying! It is amazing to me how many people are ready to buy a parcel without even reading the covenant!

Does Desmond do straight rentals? I know he does the buy land option, although he does state that he thinks the term "buy" is misleading.

I'm with you on everything except this.

I don't think it should a natural assumption that you're entitled to a refund. Why should you be? My partner and I are not on the island land we own. Now, in our case, it's spelled out in the covenant that we are entitled to sell it, but the island owner is not obligated to buy it back, I think it should have been clear in your covenant whether it is refundable or not, but if it's not stated, my assumption would be that it's not.

If you decide you can't justify paying your RL mortgage anymore, do you call up the people you bought your house from and ask for a refund?

That tier fee sounds high (how much land is involved here) but the island owner has to pay several hundred dollars a month to LL for tier, and that money goes at least partly to cover that.

She's making a profit, but likely not as much as you may think

Mickey, so here's your RL scenario: your RL house is now beyond your means, but you don't sell it, or even advertise it for sale, because the mortgage lender won't allow you to. So you drop by his/her office and hand over your keys and kiss goodbye to the several thousand you paid for it. Best of luck with that expectation.

Actually, it would be incredibly profitable at full occupancy. The purchase price is bad enough--12.7L/m2 for pretty unexceptional "tropical island" scenery of the sort that was popular when Estate rentals first started, but it's the monthly fee that's outrageous: US$0.01/m2... so for US$38/mo, that's only 3800 m2! That's almost enough to cover 1/8 sim (8192m2) of tier for a Mainland owner, and would work out to over US$650/mo for the Estate if fully-rented--over 100% profit, not counting the interest on the up-front "purchase" price.

At least you know they're probably reading this and can see what others think of them. Doubt they care much though.

I do think how you have been treated in general is wrong. I was just wondering when you "brought" the land did it say in the covenant that you could resell the land if you wished, or that the Estate owner would buy it off you?

I am just trying to understand... I have lived on private islands and I have never thought before to go to the estate owner and tell them that now I am finished can they buy land back off me now please.. thats why I ask if it was in the covenant at all or even just the fact that the land can be resold?

I now rent on a private estate and when I "brought" the land it was for 1L$ or something, just so I could take over the land tools. If I ever move ( highly doubtful) I know the land can not be resold and the estate owner will not be buying it back off me.

I have been a longish term renter with Sarah Nerd, if you ever go the private route again you should look her up

My reason too!

This isn't in reply to the behaviour of the island owners, it is only in reply to having to pay money on top of tier. I do understand islands charging a purchase price + the monthly tier. Each and every island owner had to pay a purchase price + pay tier when they bought thier island. It isn't a matter of saying I want an island and only paying the tier.

I have downgraded to a basic account. I used to own a little 512 on the mainland in a wonderful peaceful sim. That sim is still nice. But I have seen so many people with property in the mainland that is completely useless because of bad neighbors. Whenever I decide to go back and start paying tier it will be for island property but................ It will only be with people I know. There are some wonderful island owners in SL that bend over backwards to treat thier clients right. Whenever I do this then I will pay a purchase price and pay my tier.

Its what's commonly done actually and its treated like mainland but you have to have a good land baron or you can be in trouble.

The one place i did only pay rent on the guy wanted so much control over it he ended up setting up a central telehub among other things making it so you had to fly to your place, but he really only wanted to use the sim himself and have people help him pay his tier. After that I stopped looking for "rentals" and just went with a buy option and have in the past resold the land at a profit everytime i wanted to move even just selling at the barons list price. Others would sell at a markup to that and make money but me i could not be bothered. I have seen rentals where you dont get the option to sell. Anyhow the big thing is that she just has to list in the estate land selling ads the for sale sign is in fact worthless no one sees them its an estate sim in the middle of a big blue grid of emptyness. The only way to sell any land is by using the LL build in listing tool and possibly list on the ads here and other forums

Oh Bonny I am sorry for laughing, but great come back. I have been in sl for almost a year now and finally bought land last month.. My finger shook as I pressed that button because I still dont really know what I am doing in here. I did buy on mainland though because I know at any time the owner of the sim can boot you regardless if you have paid thousands up front and pay your tier on time. They can boot you if they just don't like the color of your eyes. You can also lose your land if their tier isnt paid for some reason and the Lindens take it back. Die, leave sl, take an extended vacation from being a land baron, etc.

I wish you luck honey in your plight. Some times the sun just doesnt shine IRL. Soon though there will be a break in the clouds and the sun will shine once again. Go safely through the rest of this life.

/me trots off to the corner with her notepad in hand. What do I name my group and how the heck do I form it. Yep, >search forum>read read read>me gets more confused

Excellent point, Wilhelm, and one I had been wondering about. Putting up the sign serves NO purpose except to notify other residents of the same sim. The same could be achieved by simply sending each one an IM.

The other issue with the sign? I hate to side with a not-very-nice landlord, but it IS their estate and THEY make the rules. When your landlord tells you to take your sign down, you need to take your sign down. Even if they let other people have signs, or use them on their own estate-owned parcels. It's their land and their rules. If you break the rules by not doing what the landlord tells you to do, it is hardly surprising that they would evict you.

I agree *for sale* signs are a bit ugly. But when you tp into land that is for sale, if it doesnt suit you, you can have a look around and see if anything close by is available

I never look for the for sale signs I simply open the map and look for the yellow plots. That's how I shop for land. I stand around moving around the map looking for the yellow bits when i find a pile of em i go to that area (also good for finding new mainland sims cause near the large piles of for sale on that map are the new uncut ones that are not listed yet ^^

For sale signs server NO purpose in SL the search engine and the map is what works. If you have no right to sell the land then that yellow patch that people look for wont be visible. Add that to the fact that draw distance makes them pretty useless if you at the other end of a sim they truly have no purpose.

Well no. As I said, I am in agreement with you on everything except the two specific points I quoted.

I DO agree she should not have blocked you from reselling. And the covenant apparently now specifies that buyers cannot, which is beyond stupid on her part.

All I said is that I would never assume that I could buy the land and get a refund later when I move on. I WOULD assume I could re-sell it without having it stolen (reclaimed) out from under me.

I understand you're angry about the situation, but please don't read more into what I said than is there.

Thats cause you are smarter than me honey. That's why I come to the forum, *To Learn*, and get my rump smacked. Don't really have a problem looking around though because I always disable camera constraints. Of course on main land that doesnt take you too far.

lol okay

yeah its just easier look for the yellow and double click to port (land in the middle of a sea of for sale signs and move from there)

I get nosey and want tosee prices or what new chunks of mainland look like and that's how i find the new stuff

(also i'm not used to being called smart i usualy get called the opposite so watch it you will give me a swelled head ^^)

/me takes a needle and pops his swelled head so it won't blow up. No brain splat.
/me is careful not to slam the door in his face when he comes nosing around. Come on in honey, you click on buy while I quadruple the price.