Creators, could we please be reasonable with this 'no mod' paranoia?

Now, I'm normally a very patient and understanding person, but right now, I'm really in a foul mood.

I just bought a sculpted scarf somewhere - ok, no naming... this is a general matter - only to find-out that the fitting is not the best to my typically small, thin, female body - ok time for some fitting - have became rather good at it over the years (this is one of my newer accounts, so don't be mis-lead by the recent date shown to the left).

No way.. think again!! The darn thing is 'NO MOD' - meaning I'm stuck with a clumsy resize-script, which limits the necessay tweaking to get it to fit - considerably.

Yikes! Please, dear creators... this is really getting out of propotion now - while I very much understand some creators' worries about content-thefth and likewise, the immense variety an avatar can be shaped makes it quite hard to get many kinds of items fitted using scripts only- unless there are a lot of tweeking-options added, which very few have in place (although there are some interesting exceptions) - the drawback is very obvious now... hopeless to get things to look nice on my avatar And I'm quite sure it was not the creator's intention that I should walk around displaying a poorly-fitted item of his/hers.

Another thing I would like to make a wish/request of, is that these resize scripts have the ability to delete themselves thru the menu. Some of them use up so much script time it is absolutely absurd. I have a belt that I bought, wont say where, but I can't even teleport when I am wearing it. If I take it off, I can teleport again. I even tried it nude with just the belt on, still could not teleport. This same belt raises the sim script usage 326pts, which to me, is just ridiculous!

I've read a fair number of complaints about resize scripts lately. They aren't as useful in furniture as they are in clothing, so I've never commented. But it occurs to me that resize scripts must be very useful for the large number of people who are not fully familiar with using the Edit facilities, and I think it's highly understandable to include resize scripts is clothing and such.

However, the items should also be editable and a way should always be provided for people to remove them en-masse.

Every item I have with a resize script tells in the accompanying note card how to delete the script via the menu with the designer herself saying the script is very laggy, so once the customer has the item *exactly* how they want it to remove the script.

If you didn't receive that info from the designer, I would contact him and ask how that may be done.

I'm seeing these resize scripts in a great many avatar items (ie. clothes, hair, shoes, jewelry, etc.) lately. I personally have had no trouble getting them to fit, but I have a pretty "average" sized avatar so I can sympathize if a lot of tweaking is necessary.

You probably already know this, so please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, but for the longest time, I didn't "get it" that I could just resize one *part* of an item per the menu and was editing the entire piece which did make it very clunky. Once I realized I could edit just one part of an item via the resizing menu, life has been a lot better. Of course if what you were resizing was one prim, which sounds like it was, that wouldn't work either.

I sell home furnishings and an occasional piece of jewelry but have always made my items mod so customers can retexture, resize, etc. to suit their needs.

Now when the discussion comes to transfer vs copy, that one has proponents for each all over the board.

This probably hasn't helped much, but I understand being in bad moods so wanted to respond with as much info as I could.

I hate the resizing scripts and won't buy anything else with them in it. Then never conform the object to the shape of my body the way I like it, and once bought..oh well...too bad no refunds. Plus on things like hair...they are ungawdly SLOW to resize the hair with...especially when its just a few strands in different spots (I don't like hair in my eyes for example). Then they "time out"....and I wait...wait...wait...no thanks...

I have followed the re-size script arguments and had held off using them. today for the first time I added one to some rings I made. The lady's ring consists of three bands, four gems and three dangling rings. For someone who is not accustomed to editing, it wd be a nightmare to get all the parts linged up. Add to that, that I also made a man's ring - minus the dangling ring parts - and I myself was at a loss how to size it as I have no concept of a man's handsize, generally. I did include a note saying to delete the script because it wd add to lag.

I did not make the ring no mod, though of course it shows like that since the script is of course no mod - I figure folks shd have the option to do it as they like.

I think copy/mod permissions with a deletable resize system is the ideal solution. Many folk just aren't into learning the ropes of editing or modifying their stuff so a resize script helps them get a halfway decent look at least. Resize scripting also makes a handy shortcut for experienced editors to approximate the size they want before getting into the nitty-gritty of modifying the item.

The question is how to best to encourage people to delete the scripts when they're done?

I've bought items with resize scripts that delete themselves automatically after the object has been worn for an hour or so without the scripts being used. The maker warns you they're going to do this, and encourages you to make a back-up copy in case you need to resize them later.

I've adopted this idea, 'cos I like it so much. When I'm asked to make these for no-copy items, I suggest leaving the menu script and a copy of the resizer in the root prim, with instructions on how to re-inject the scripts if necessary.

I've toyed with the idea of having the item spam you each time you TP, telling you to delete the scripts cos you'll find TP-ing a lot easier if you do, but I don't really like nagging people, even vicariously.

And, of course, I don't compile them in Mono.

What about a timer that would "conveniently" reset the object to the original size after a timer has elapsed? The only way to avoid this is to delete the script.

Of course, lots of people will not bother to change the size in the first place so this would not affect them. Insert whatever annoyance to get them to scream 'how do I stop this!?' here.

If you worry people can't resize things on their own, then simply put a version with scripts and one version without scripts in the box. Or if you want to sell the item as nocopy, offer both versions via vendor or so. But the scripts are a pain in the a##. I have one pair of boots I have to take off before TPing into logout or ghosting, and my current hair was advertised as "mod" - but here mod meant mod by script, so yeah, your problem if you intended to put some other scripts it like the XCite hair script...

After fiddling a tweaking for half an hour to get something just right I get called away from the keyboard to something that takes a heck of a lot longer than I might have expected...

After fiddling a tweaking for half an hour trying to get something just right I decide to call it a day and come back to finish the adjustemnts some other time...

After fiddling a tweaking for half an hour to get something just right I try it out for a few days, planning to do some fine tuning later...

Or simply plague the creators with a note requesting a modify version even if they insist on keeping their deletable resize scripts BEFORE you buy.

If the creator is willing to give me a modify version (with or without resize scripts -- I don't use them), then they get my money. If they are unwilling, or do not get the point, they never see my Lindens again.

Most creators are unwilling but the few who were will continue to see my money.

In the end, money speaks.

No mod apparel and accoutrements is just daft. Especially in SL, we ARE NOT all created the same and seldom do we even remain in fixed body shapes for our entire SL lives.

You are lucky then! I have lots of no-mod, no-copy items that have resize scripts in them with NO delete option in the menu. And of course, you cannot delete items out of no-mod prims.

So again, I reinforce my argument that if you HAVE to use resize scripts with no-mod, give a delete option in the menu.

Just as people won't by clothing unless all layers of the same design are included ie:jacket/shirt/undershirt, it all comes down to buyer beware. Just as you have the right to buy or not buy an item dependant on your criteria, a creator can sell their item however they see fit. Personally I don't agree with resize scripts in most items and have only used them in one or two low prim (less than 10prim) pieces. Where possible, right click the vendor boxes and check the permissions in the content tab of the edit box. If buying from Xstreet or from a multi vendor where you're still not sure of the modability, IM the creator and ask. Sometimes problems like this are a 50/50 deal, where the buyer "assumes" certain permissions, or the creator fails to indicate exactly what their version of "modable" is. More than a few unscrupulous vendors have neglected to point out that the item was only modable via a resize script.

I'm a builder myself and i don't have any problem with people modifying my builds because i know they can't sell it or use it for their own personal gain.

I do think that it's stupid how some creators don't allow you to modify your purchase though it just kinda seems overly controling if you ask me.

But hey - If they want bad reviews and loss of future purchases from the same customer then sure go ahead and be that strict lol.

Lol yeah! Please put even more restrictions and annoying "features" in your products! It already worked out great for the music industry... *coughs*

Just make a main script that distibutes the slave linkmessage resize scripts through the child prims when somebody wants to resize (takes a while), then resizing itself will be fast.
Autodelete the childprim resize scripts after x time of non usage. (Can be short like 5 mins).
Keep the main script.
Redistribute the scripts again when somebody wants to resize again.

Just needs script pin set.

No scripts running (except main script), while worn (no lag). Always possible to resize. No other weird stuff necessary.


Why do people always overcomplicate stuff

i usualy check permissions BEFORE i buy stuff, if it´s not what i need/want, i look somewhere else

I agree, except that propagating the scripts using llRemoteLoadScriptPin() is maybe not the best way to do it; that has a delay of 3 seconds for each prim, which is a looong time for a hair with a couple of hundred prims in it.

Most people (including me) use llGiveInventory(), which doesn't have any delay at all, but means you have to take the object back into your inventory after the scripts have propagated, rez/wear it again, and use "set scripts to running in selection" in the tools menu to activate them.

You're right 3 seconds is long. That's why i made a test with a 2 stage system:
1. masterloader -> set slaveloaders to running and resets them
2. x slaveloaders -> run n times llremoteloadscriptpin for n childprims (5 in my example), then turn themselves off.
3. each child prim gets loaded

Seems to work fine (llSetScriptstate has no delay).
You just get a bunch of (non active) slaveloaders in your root prim...

I guess in SL we have no choice, but to overcomplicate things...

That's a great idea.

I've been working on a resize script because many of the worn objects I make are too complicated or prim-heavy to foist on people even with mod/copy permissions. At the same time I've been very dubious about including a resize system because you can't trust folk to have the confidence to press 'Set' and delete the scripts at some point.

I think I might experiment with that idea myself. I'll let you know in a few years time how it worked out.

With respect, that's only your opinion

Please leave the item modify so that those of us who are competent and don't find it difficult, may do so.

Resize that just makes a linkset bigger/smaller does not equal the ability to Reshape/Move/Rotate etc.

Don't even start on with the "select this prim" / "all prims" nonsense.

Try using that on hair with many transparencies that overlap, it's hopeless to know which prim you've selected.

Do what you like with scripts but make it copy so they can be removed PERMANENTLY and MODIFY for those of us that can make things fit without cripple systems.

Maybe someone might like to start a website with a nice list of places not to bother shopping at?

I was discussing the advantages of resize scripts as an added advantage on top of copy/mod permissions and you appear to have conflated Innula's precaution for no copy items with my opinion. I am no advocate of resize scripts as a half-arsed get around for paranoid creators, which appears to be the construction you placed on my post.

The ability to reinject the scripts would indeed be a very good idea for any item regardless of the permissions set on it. People change their minds, get different ideas about how the wish to wear an item and it is only courtesy to facilitate the customer in that event.

And with respect, anyone's posts are only ever their opinion but stating the obvious does nothing to diminish the value of such.

I do not like resize scripts, and there are many situations in which I do not find them helpful.

Prim belts, for instance, particularly those in which the creator was obviously larger from side to side, but smaller from front to back than I am. I can shrink and enlarge the cylinder all day long, but I will never be able to change the X to Y ratio. Useless.

No-copy items in which I would like to delete the scripts, but which I might want to wear again on a different shape. Not usually a problem for me - but it could be.

I have not run into a particular example, but I am always a bit intimidated by using scripts to resize just one prim, in case the resizing puts the prim off-kilter to the object (say, a belt in which resizing the main band causes it to pull away from the embedded decorations). Normally, I'd just s.elect the decorations and scootch them closer to the band - but if the item's no-mod, that's just not happening.

Phooey to the mod-by-script-only items, I say. Phooey.