Best/Worst times to set up a shop

As a former forum admin, I noticed huge differences in member turn out depending on what time of the year it was. I would like to set up a small shop in SL sometime, but I would like the timing to be right and not be out of business before I even start. So I guess I have a few questions.

Traffic aside (because location is such a huge factor)

1. What months do you get the most sales / least sales. Does it have anything to do with Holidays IRL? If you were to pick a time to set up a shop when would it be?
2. What do you do to calculate costs if really there aren't any variable costs when people just download at no charge to you other than the fixed cost of rent / your time. How do you know when you are making a profit?
3. How much is the average person willing to spend out of their pocket? I guess this question could be for anyone. As for me, I don't spend real money on items in game.
4. Are custom orders rare? Would it be wise to specialize in custom orders?

Just answer whatever you want. I'm a newbie, so I'm just trying to get a feel for what your more experienced users know.

I usually subtract my upload fees, tier, mall rents and advertising costs from how much I made and if I'm in the black, Profit!

Q4 has historically been my busiest time the last 4 years. Not so confident this year in the current climate though. Hard to speculate.



Not sure what you mean by 'download at no charge'?

I think the way you are approaching this is wrong. You seem to be wanting to assign a value to your own time invested, add to that your expenses, then determine if you have made a profit. That wont work so well when you are starting out. To start you need to approach this as a hobby. Dont get hung up on how long it takes you to create stuff. Just get stuck in and immerse yourself in the process. Only once you have a business up and running with some good quality items that are selling well should you start to worry about your profits. Just start small keep your overheads as low as possible. To begin with the profits are going to be minimal so not worth worrying about. Ask again when you have some revenue.



Obviously variable but there is a lot of money in SL and allot of wealthy people willing to part with it. Trouble is competition is fierce and in the credit crunch people are bound to be more selective on what they spend/waste money on. If your products are good enough and sensibly priced then people will pay for them. This is allot harder than it sounds though.



In my experience you get what you pay for. I custom build sims and charge an extortionate amount, but i have earned the right to earn that sort of money and have a portfolio of work to justify the price. However most would never dream of paying that and are happy pay a less skilled builder a lot less money. I turn custom work down all the time so there is definitely a demand but you would need to grasp the basics of building or scripting or whatever it is you plan on doing. I think the best way is to create content and sell it in world, once you have a body of work use that to demonstrate your skill to score custom jobs.

You might find Gwyneth LLewelyn's 9 page epic on the SL economy to be good reading. I'm not sure I would agree with some of the conclusions in there, but she did an awesome job of collecting in one spot the peculiar forces that work on the in-world economy, and how they have been evolving.

http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2008/10/13/the-hard-facts-about-the-second-life%c2%ae-economy/

Thanks so much for the advice! I've started building and creating my own products, but I still need to work on getting some good finished-to-my-liking work uploaded to showcase, so it's probably going to be a few months before I set up shop. Thank you so much for the link! I would have thought that the summer would be the busiest. I'm surprised to hear it's Q4. Thank you.

Personally I haven't found "best" time. I make things spend lot of time
doing the best with what I do, learning, and often what I do put up for
sell even at 20 to 50L I can't sell. I don't get why charging more would
make people notice or buy the product any more then now.
Either way I do it for the love and fun of it, yes I wish it paid more and often
feel there something wrong if I am not selling things.
I have gotten maybe 3 custom jobs that paid in three years, perhaps reason why
I didn't get more was I am still learning and bit insecure about it.
People will take sometimes free items and can get free things so most don't
need to buy anything here.
Yet I may suck at it too but I love doing what I do regardless if it gets a "job"
here or anywhere else doing it.
I personally think in SL it has to do with what you're selling, how many friends you have with lots of money who tell others about your products, who you know, and how well you are with it, how good you are at manipulating search and drawing attention to your product or service and extremely good luck because there are numerous very talented content creators I have met who rarely sell, get offered custom jobs,etc.
The problem is there too many people selling things, or selling the same things, trying to run business for actual shoppers to go around I think, those who spend a whole lot on actual content have their favorite places don't go to new places.
The few people I know who make any money at are either extremely talented or
they could sell spit if they wanted too and people would buy because they have very
charming personalities.

Thank you FD for your response. It helped me set out a great plan, along with the link I was given earlier. I was just looking at it the wrong way, and I'm glad you experienced users set me straight before I wasted my time on a project set to fail.

I can't really say for me that one season has been signifigantly better than another. Sales go up and down, but I honestly can't really say I see a pattern.

I really never figured it the same way you would figure it for a RL item where you need to figure a per item profit. Seeing as you can sell the same item over and over with no additional cost to you. I went more by what others selling the same sorts of things were charging when first determining prices. What I take out of the game is what I consider my profit as far as the IRS is concerned.

See the answer to #2. This ranges hugely by each individual shopper, I'm sure.

I get requests for custom, but I don't do them. I would have to charge so much to make it worth it. Plus, I just like having the freedom to do what I want on my own schedule. I'm always happy to take suggestions though. I would think it would be difficult to start out as a custom designer when people don't know your work yet.

There really are so many clothing designers out there nowadays. I think finding a niche market is really helpful. Hope this helps.

I don't mean to discourage you or anyone but there is only so many out of the total residents who make money here and often builds happen and they basically have no
to few visitors.
If you want to do something because you love it and can spend the money on it and
can afford to lose the money.
Don't do it because you hope its going to do anything special other then it will be fun.
I seen a lot of people spend, then get disappointed and cranky when it doesn't become
profitable here.
I have even been guilty of this, spend money on dream, project that is based on fantasy
and high expectations, only to become disappointed with myself and the situation.
Do something because it's fun, you might make new friends,etc and if it does become profitable it just added bonus.
Ask your self if you start project and certain things don't happen, are you going to be okay
with it not happening way you wanted it?

Thank you ^^ Actually that is what I'm planning to do. I was going to do clothing design (which I'm still going to do but it won't be my main operation) but I'm going into a niche market for the rest. As a newbie and clothing designer wanna-be, I'm going to service what I would have wanted.

My sales are pretty random. I think it does slightly pick up in the summer and around Christmas. Maybe people are getting more time to play SL or something? I'd recommend that you just start setting up a shop as soon as you can because if you wait for a certain time period you may end up rushing to put things together. It takes a long time to set up a store from scratch and you'll probably run into a few problems along the way.

You're right. And you didn't discourage me, you just redirected me. And you're right that I should be okay with not making a profit. Here's my idea:
I want to quit my minimum wage job - in order to do that I need a steady source of income (which selling clothing wouldn't supply, I'm now convinced)

If I end up not making any money, life is still good because:
I'm not investing any RL money (other than pocket change if that) in it
I am planning to be a 3D modeler so I get experience either way
With tweaks, it can be saved.

:3 I'm pretty confident that I can do well, and if not, back to Oblivion modding with more skills than when I left.

Yeah that was the reason I was waiting so that I could set everything up.

What was challenging to you to set up shop? What took the longest?

I make unique men and unisex clothes because I love it.
I started with fabrics and artwork. I have trying to learn and make content
for long time.
Years ago, Ten in fact I started in sims doing things for free I made wall papers, floor textures,
and some furniture in sims.
In Cybertown I tried to learn vrml but never was good at it.
I am disabled I have nurses who come help me with things on several times a week
and of course I would love job I could create and feel successful in even if its
from my bed in my first life.
I tried few times to have stores, sell things on onrez,etc but rarely do I see a sell.
Maybe its because my stuff isn't that great but I keep doing it because I love to do it.
My friends will say oh that is great, you got talent but you know very few buy anything
from me often I tend to give things away for free in hopes that they wear it and someone
will see it and want to buy it from me but often that doesn't even happen.
It is disappointing sometimes but I like creating and even if people said your clothes
really suck I wouldn't put it with trash bag on my head I still do it.
Often when I am paying for shop or gallery space I spending more then I am earning
I finally got fed up I am just going to stop trying to sell things again.
With clothes there is lot of very experienced people out there doing same and probably better and whole lot of people trying to do same thing in endless sims and shops.

That's exactly why I worry it's a bad idea to get into a market THAT flooded.

Creating the vendor boxes took a while. You have to take product pictures, edit them, upload them, stick them on the box. Then you have to fill the boxes with the product, landmarks, notes, etc. Also setting the permissions for everything and then testing that you can actually buy things with an alt and making sure the perms are correct. Then boxing them up again and stuffing them into the xtreet and onrez boxes and creating all of those little product pages on each site.

I love making clothes for fun and challenge of it. It a whole lot easier now
that I know how to do clothes here then it was in the sims.
I have been trying to charge money for it but I may just end up doing it for
free because then maybe others will be able to enjoy and use what I make more.
I do flowers, trees and other textures but I don't want to sell full permission textures.
They can still steal the textures if they really wanted, its not that I am worried about that
it just I don't know I don't want to give strangers my creations they are my babies that
I spend hours upon hours getting them right.

You never know, but I wouldn't quit your day job just yet in anticipation of making the same amount right off. SL is hard to predict.

As far as niche market, I didn't mean not to make clothing, but to choose a style, like Neko, Goth, Retro (I do vintage inspired) and so on.

I love do custom jobs especially with clothes and I have done it for very little because
I am doing clothes anyway its not about the profit for me, its about the creating, fun
and learning.
I have done this for free or donations.
I told someone recently I do custom outfit for 2000L but if she had asked I would done it for a whole less with template, full permissions because
I can make another one its not like I am going to lose money when I am getting zero already for me its not big thing.
I am not that important as designer, my time is my own and things are flexible right now.
If I started getting tons of people wanting this began to stress me out, they were rude and
demanding or worse I might not be so willing to do it for so little.
I don't get very many of those jobs so its sort of irrelevant at this point.
I prefer working one on one with people but it also stresses me out sometimes
because I am just learning and sometimes things don't work design wise the way
I want them too.
I do get request more and then I don't hear from them again usually.
Some people there time is more important and valuable, and that is cool but for me
I just want the work I don't care what the pay is as long the client is nice, patient
and pays for something even if its just the upload cost.
Now if they turned around used my products and made enough for island I would be
furious but there wouldn't be much I could do unless we had some legally binding requirement that they didn't but I can't afford newer computer, so sure in heck can afford
the legal fees.

Best time to set up a business: As soon as possible. Business takes time to mature and to be known.

Best thing to do with a business: Be firm. Don't change logo or name. And stick it everywhere.

Best advice I ever had: Be patient.

Then when some success is achieved it's what Spark says:
"If I started getting tons of people wanting this began to stress me out, they were rude and
demanding or worse I might not be so willing to do it for so little."

Maybe my problem has been there is someone out there with similar name as mine
even though they do other type of things and while I can think of designs for others
as far as logos I am rotten when it comes to my own logo.
Also it's hard to stay focused on one project, stick to time plan and produce when
there is so many things to distract me, be it SL or RL.
Hardest part is getting known and feeling confident, positive when you're starting out and not getting cranky, discouraged or having too high of expectations of the market.
I struggle with that too.
When it comes down to it I don't want it to be about stress, I don't want it to be about diddling whatever I can out of potential buyers pockets like some business in sl seem to do, but providing something unique, high quality, and enjoyable without taking them for every L in their pockets yet same time of course I want to be appreciated even in money for our efforts.
The problem is what do when no one, I mean no one is buying.
Do I take it personally or do I keep going on any way just for the sake of the
art?
Do I continue even if artwork I do very few notice or appreciate or do I do a Van Gogh
give up consider myself a failure?
For years I spend 40 to 70 hours on good week improving my skills and practicing I enjoy it yet at my grumpier moments I get tired of putting out more money, time on something and seeing very little back.
There is lot of stuff I don't know how to do as well some of the people who've been around a while but I keep trying.
I have to constantly remind myself why I am doing all this, it is for sake of creating, being
artistic and personal pleasure it gives me.
When I start wanting more then this it gives this naturally grumpy elf more reasons to be grumpier and crankier about the whole process.

Oh I can imagine. Is there a way you could sell a big item, displayed as itself, when people click it it gives you the big item + landmark etc.? I know it sounds like a stupid question, but I hesitate to put things in boxes because as a newbie, I just didn't get it at all. And opening them was confusing. Now I do it all the time, but if I could, I would :3

@ Betty - lol yeah. I'm probably going to be stuck there for a while. On the bright side if I make money here, I have extra spending/saving money. (But it would be nice :3 )With the niche market, what I'm worried about is the competition of even the styles. I like doing all sorts of stuff, but I just don't think I could differentiate myself enough to make much of a difference. And I don't see a lot of people shopping /o_o\ it worries me. I'd rather do something so completely different that I catch people by surprise.

@ dzogchen - Thank you for the advice. I'm working on a plan now, and hopefully I can get started soon :3

If you have a big item, say a piece of furniture, you can just set out the object and set it to give them a copy when they buy. You could put your landmark inside of it, but many may never find it there. The other way to go if you don't want them to get a box with the items inside, is to load items and LM into the vendor and set to sell contents. This way they will get a folder with everything in it and nothing has to be unpacked.

As long as there is a market for what you are creating, something completely new and different can't be beat. You just never know, you may be out of there faster than you think. I was completely surprised at how fast my business took off.

usually do better with like slexchange and stuff rather than paying in game for store fronts etc. I know most times me and my friends we wont go to any in game store, when we can have it delivered to us anywhere we are at from slexchange.

so dont worry about some elaborate store, most time its a waste of money. stick with k.i.s.s. 'keep it simple stupid'

I have friends I know who quite talented who never make a sell in slex, aka xstreet
or onrez, but more in world as people get to know there designs and some people
they can be around for years make super cool avatars, scripted and various other furniture
and sculpties that have really high quality textures they make themselves and rarely will
see a sale be it at onrez, slex, or in world.
There is no hard and fast way of guarantee any sales here. Everyone is selling things,
even if its unique, well done there is no guarantee it will be noticed or sold.
I know I am probably one few who I have heard recently that says this in forum.
I understand why, we don't want to discourage anyone and part of what keeps
some people designing content is hopes it will make money that makes it fun for them.
Just the truth is it "sales" just don't happen every day no matter how great of designer
you are. Some of the so so designers, that I wasn't impressed with there shops nor
spent more then few moments on their creations make more money then I have with
all the endless of hours I spent on getting the design "perfect" so having nice shop
or product isn't guarantee you sell anything either.
Most of keep it fun and do it because you like what you're doing it save you tons
of stress down the road when you can't pay for the tier or rental fees.