Second Life Forums Archive - Do we have any rights as land owners in an estate?

Oberon Onmura

Registered User

Join date: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 125

08-15-2007 08:45

I also "bought" an island in a private estate. I bought it because of the strict covenant. I'm happy to report that the estate owner, so far, has been fair, honest, accommodating, and has enforced the terms of the covenant to keep everything looking nice. So I'm very pleased.

(I won't mention the estate name, but anyone can IM me in world if they want to know.)

" ... underwater rentals are about as typical as, well, underwater rentals. Ever see people actively seek to live 100% underwater in large groups? It's kinda rare (I've never seen it as generally popular in 4 years of SL), and I suspect the whole idea just plain flopped."

I suspect the owner had a big vision for making $$$ from all that unused underwater real estate. And then, later on, I'll bet he actually went down there to see what it was like.

The problem is, even if you use the Client menu rendering function to make the water 'disappear,' as soon as you drop beneath the 20 m surface your vision still changes to 'underwater.' So I'll bet as soon as the owner understood that no one would want to live in perpetual bluish foggy gloom, he abandoned his dream of underwater rentals.

Victorria Paine

Sleepless in Wherever

Join date: 13 Jul 2007

Posts: 1,110

08-15-2007 09:03

From: Conan Godwin

My understanding is that if you buy a parcel in a privately owned estate, such as an island for example, you are technically just renting the parcel but with some of the rights of an owner (e.g the right to pass the land on to someone else, the right to alter the settings for the land etc etc). Afterall, the tier fee is still paid by the estate owner, so as far as LL are concerned they own it.

Yes but mainland is exactly the same except that your landlord is LL.

Learjeff Innis

musician & coder

Join date: 27 Nov 2006

Posts: 817

08-15-2007 09:08

From: Cortex Draper

Either buy or rent land on the mainland or RENT land on a private estate.

If conditions become unacceptable, sell up and move.

Is it easy for you to sell the land back? If not, sorry to say this but you are trapped which would be another good reason not to buy land on an estate where a tin pot dictator can make and change whatever rules he likes.

Never say never. If you want the ability to terraform, set the land policies, choose streaming media, return objects, ban/eject people, etc., then you have to "buy". There are plenty of great non-mainland properties where you won't get jerked around, but there's no guarantee. (There are also workarounds for many of these issues, but in each case you have to get the official owner to do something, like installing a security orb for you, so you can eject people.)

"Buying" on a private island is really purchasing the rights to control the land as mentioned above, in addition to renting (paying tier fees). If those rights are worth it to you, go ahead. Otherwise, rent.

Learjeff Innis

musician & coder

Join date: 27 Nov 2006

Posts: 817

08-15-2007 10:10

From: JessicaNichol Kappler

What is the #1 rule of real estate? Location, location, location.
How do we try and figure out what is a good location in SL? Research, research, research.

I am a so called land owner (which we all know I am nothing more than a renter with slightly more rights than a traditional renter, but with all the risks of loosing my initial investment) on a private estate island and while my situation sounds a million times better than the OP's situation, I am afraid I did not do enough research and I find myself living on a corner lot (the good) surrounded by nothing but ban line after ban line after ban line properties in this huge monster network in a series of private estate islands hooked up into one. I have IMed the estate owner and their assistant numerous times to be added to the estate group list and so far I have been ignored by them both. I have logged into their website and have browsed their so called "help" forums to be greeted with nothing but pronographic advertizing after pronographic advertizing posts from the residents of this estate network. My small little corner of this series of islands is nice, but I am surrounded by ugliness to my left and to the right and I will never get to know my neighbours because they have not only decided to erect 20 foot high walls, but they have also placed ban lines and they obviously do not want to get to know anyone other than themselves.

I have only myself to blame. I did not do my research into the island and the owner of the estate. I am an honest person, but when it comes time to selling (which could be happening very soon) I will only be hurting myself if I tell the prospective buyers my experiences with the estate. I might as well be on the mainland. The only thing that makes my small parcel of land better than the mainland is that I do have a corner ocean front lot (of course I can not really even use the water). But everything else is just ban line after ban line. What is wrong with these people? Why must they insist on building walls?

No as someone so correctly pointed out, the only rights we as so call land owners have on these estate islands is the right to leave. My estate owner sure as hell doesn't care about me when they don't even have the common curtiousy of adding me to their estate island groups list. Then again with all the pronography going on on their website, do I really want to be notified of the latest smut? For all the good I find in SL, there appears to be an equal amount of bad. I guess we as a society here in SL are just an extension of ourselves out there in RL.

Jessica, IM me for the name of a place where ban lines are banned, you can boat on the water, and your neighbors are likely to be interested in meeting you. My understanding is that the costs are reasonable too -- barely above the break-even point for the owner -- but I certainly don't have my finger on the pulse of the land market.

Ricardo Harris

Registered User

Join date: 1 Apr 2006

Posts: 1,944

08-15-2007 10:24

Someone wrote, "If the sim owner is an honorable person"....

This is where the problem is, there is no honor in most people especially in sl and when money is involved.

As far as "Owning" land, no one owns anything. Not you, not the person you rent from. If anything the best thing to do is to rent, this way you don't pay that large amount of cash you need to make when first getting the land.

Now, as far as renting or buying from Linden I don't know since I've never had. I've heard it's even worse getting anything from them so I haven't bothered.

Getting land is a very risky proposition and you hope you're lucky enough to get a good place with little or no problems. You can't hope to count on someone having honor and doing the right things, they usually don't have any.

Caroline Ra

Carpe Iugulum

Join date: 20 Dec 2006

Posts: 400

08-15-2007 11:12

From: Ricardo Harris

Someone wrote, "If the sim owner is an honorable person"....

This is where the problem is, there is no honor in most people especially in sl and when money is involved.

As far as "Owning" land, no one owns anything. Not you, not the person you rent from. If anything the best thing to do is to rent, this way you don't pay that large amount of cash you need to make when first getting the land.

Now, as far as renting or buying from Linden I don't know since I've never had. I've heard it's even worse getting anything from them so I haven't bothered.

Getting land is a very risky proposition and you hope you're lucky enough to get a good place with little or no problems. You can't hope to count on someone having honor and doing the right things, they usually don't have any.

Thats a bit harsh Ricardo. I have met some exceptionally genuine, good and kind people in SL despite the anonymity that SL provides. Ive also met some unbelievably tedious tw*ts who I wouldnt trust a sq mt. Take your time, use judgement and ...meet more people, theres bound to be a few good apples in the SL barrel.

_____________________

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.

Do we have any rights as land owners in an estate?
Oberon Onmura Registered User Join date: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 125	08-15-2007 08:45 I also "bought" an island in a private estate. I bought it because of the strict covenant. I'm happy to report that the estate owner, so far, has been fair, honest, accommodating, and has enforced the terms of the covenant to keep everything looking nice. So I'm very pleased. (I won't mention the estate name, but anyone can IM me in world if they want to know.) " ... underwater rentals are about as typical as, well, underwater rentals. Ever see people actively seek to live 100% underwater in large groups? It's kinda rare (I've never seen it as generally popular in 4 years of SL), and I suspect the whole idea just plain flopped." I suspect the owner had a big vision for making $$$ from all that unused underwater real estate. And then, later on, I'll bet he actually went down there to see what it was like. The problem is, even if you use the Client menu rendering function to make the water 'disappear,' as soon as you drop beneath the 20 m surface your vision still changes to 'underwater.' So I'll bet as soon as the owner understood that no one would want to live in perpetual bluish foggy gloom, he abandoned his dream of underwater rentals.
Victorria Paine Sleepless in Wherever Join date: 13 Jul 2007 Posts: 1,110	08-15-2007 09:03 From: Conan Godwin My understanding is that if you buy a parcel in a privately owned estate, such as an island for example, you are technically just renting the parcel but with some of the rights of an owner (e.g the right to pass the land on to someone else, the right to alter the settings for the land etc etc). Afterall, the tier fee is still paid by the estate owner, so as far as LL are concerned they own it. Yes but mainland is exactly the same except that your landlord is LL.
Learjeff Innis musician & coder Join date: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 817	08-15-2007 09:08 From: Cortex Draper Either buy or rent land on the mainland or RENT land on a private estate. If conditions become unacceptable, sell up and move. Is it easy for you to sell the land back? If not, sorry to say this but you are trapped which would be another good reason not to buy land on an estate where a tin pot dictator can make and change whatever rules he likes. Never say never. If you want the ability to terraform, set the land policies, choose streaming media, return objects, ban/eject people, etc., then you have to "buy". There are plenty of great non-mainland properties where you won't get jerked around, but there's no guarantee. (There are also workarounds for many of these issues, but in each case you have to get the official owner to do something, like installing a security orb for you, so you can eject people.) "Buying" on a private island is really purchasing the rights to control the land as mentioned above, in addition to renting (paying tier fees). If those rights are worth it to you, go ahead. Otherwise, rent.
Learjeff Innis musician & coder Join date: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 817	08-15-2007 10:10 From: JessicaNichol Kappler What is the #1 rule of real estate? Location, location, location. How do we try and figure out what is a good location in SL? Research, research, research. I am a so called land owner (which we all know I am nothing more than a renter with slightly more rights than a traditional renter, but with all the risks of loosing my initial investment) on a private estate island and while my situation sounds a million times better than the OP's situation, I am afraid I did not do enough research and I find myself living on a corner lot (the good) surrounded by nothing but ban line after ban line after ban line properties in this huge monster network in a series of private estate islands hooked up into one. I have IMed the estate owner and their assistant numerous times to be added to the estate group list and so far I have been ignored by them both. I have logged into their website and have browsed their so called "help" forums to be greeted with nothing but pronographic advertizing after pronographic advertizing posts from the residents of this estate network. My small little corner of this series of islands is nice, but I am surrounded by ugliness to my left and to the right and I will never get to know my neighbours because they have not only decided to erect 20 foot high walls, but they have also placed ban lines and they obviously do not want to get to know anyone other than themselves. I have only myself to blame. I did not do my research into the island and the owner of the estate. I am an honest person, but when it comes time to selling (which could be happening very soon) I will only be hurting myself if I tell the prospective buyers my experiences with the estate. I might as well be on the mainland. The only thing that makes my small parcel of land better than the mainland is that I do have a corner ocean front lot (of course I can not really even use the water). But everything else is just ban line after ban line. What is wrong with these people? Why must they insist on building walls? No as someone so correctly pointed out, the only rights we as so call land owners have on these estate islands is the right to leave. My estate owner sure as hell doesn't care about me when they don't even have the common curtiousy of adding me to their estate island groups list. Then again with all the pronography going on on their website, do I really want to be notified of the latest smut? For all the good I find in SL, there appears to be an equal amount of bad. I guess we as a society here in SL are just an extension of ourselves out there in RL. Jessica, IM me for the name of a place where ban lines are banned, you can boat on the water, and your neighbors are likely to be interested in meeting you. My understanding is that the costs are reasonable too -- barely above the break-even point for the owner -- but I certainly don't have my finger on the pulse of the land market.
Ricardo Harris Registered User Join date: 1 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,944	08-15-2007 10:24 Someone wrote, "If the sim owner is an honorable person".... This is where the problem is, there is no honor in most people especially in sl and when money is involved. As far as "Owning" land, no one owns anything. Not you, not the person you rent from. If anything the best thing to do is to rent, this way you don't pay that large amount of cash you need to make when first getting the land. Now, as far as renting or buying from Linden I don't know since I've never had. I've heard it's even worse getting anything from them so I haven't bothered. Getting land is a very risky proposition and you hope you're lucky enough to get a good place with little or no problems. You can't hope to count on someone having honor and doing the right things, they usually don't have any.
Caroline Ra Carpe Iugulum Join date: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 400	08-15-2007 11:12 From: Ricardo Harris Someone wrote, "If the sim owner is an honorable person".... This is where the problem is, there is no honor in most people especially in sl and when money is involved. As far as "Owning" land, no one owns anything. Not you, not the person you rent from. If anything the best thing to do is to rent, this way you don't pay that large amount of cash you need to make when first getting the land. Now, as far as renting or buying from Linden I don't know since I've never had. I've heard it's even worse getting anything from them so I haven't bothered. Getting land is a very risky proposition and you hope you're lucky enough to get a good place with little or no problems. You can't hope to count on someone having honor and doing the right things, they usually don't have any. Thats a bit harsh Ricardo. I have met some exceptionally genuine, good and kind people in SL despite the anonymity that SL provides. Ive also met some unbelievably tedious tw*ts who I wouldnt trust a sq mt. Take your time, use judgement and ...meet more people, theres bound to be a few good apples in the SL barrel. _____________________ The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

Do we have any rights as land owners in an estate?