OK, folks, before you start bitching undeservedly at the Lindens, can I just point out that the Shadow viewer was DROPPED by Linden Labs, and has been COMMUNITY developed, and that it is unambiguously PRE-ALPHA in quality right now.
So, yeah. Frame rates suck. Don't blame LL, they aren't doing it. And wow, guess what? Some people really DO want realistic lighting in this platform. Does the fact that some people don't overbalance those that do?
Remember, this isn't just about shadows. It also means that every light source will show up - so if you have a night scene with a building full of lights, each one will show up properly, even in the distance, instead of only the 6 closest (probably four of which are some bimbo's facelight constellation).
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The importence of SL Shadows (screenies inside) |
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Buckaroo Mu
Alpha Geek
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 106
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12-03-2008 12:10
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Katryna Jie
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 187
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12-03-2008 17:49
Oh I love the idea of shadows. I do want them so much, but I got down to 7 FPS at one point, with a 3.16G Dual, 4G, 9800GT 512.... hopefully it will get better as further development happens. I'm not blaming anyone, nor complaining, as I know it's not done yet... just letting people know what happened for me.
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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12-03-2008 18:57
That's the same line of BS that the Windlight team fed us, courtesy of Pastrami....'just turn it off and it will be like the old viewer'. It wasn't, there is still an FPS hit even with WL off. I expect another hit with shadows off as well...all explained as imagination by smiling Pastrami and fanboi chorus of folks like the OP (just like it was with WL). I'm getting the same framerates in Kirsten's SD4-1 viewer with the shadows disabled as I am in the 1.22.2 RC viewer at the same graphics settings. I suppose LL may impliment shadows differently in the official viewer, but I see no performance hit in the SD viewer with shadows off. |
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Handy Skytower
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 127
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12-04-2008 06:37
Man, that's a deal-breaker right there. already took a 5-7 frame hit from Windsuck (even with it off, Its still 3-5 slower than the pre-windlight client viewing the same scene). 10-12 more? In some busy areas or really detailed builds (where you might WANT shadows), I'd be a 1 FPS! I'd much prefer to move in a non-flipbook manner on the hardware I have (4gb Ram, P4 3.2GHz, 8800GT/512 Video) than have shadows and other eye candy the X-box generation seems to love over usability. Wow, You have a better system than me in some ways, I have 4gb ram, 3GHz processor, 8600GT/512 video and I routinely pull in 40-50fps even in high traffic areas! And I run the client on ULTRA with everything maxed out. Heck, I can jump my draw distance up to 512k on a crowded sim and still pull in 20fps. I wonder why my system handles SL so much better than yours? Handy |
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Xio Jester
Killed the King.
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 813
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12-04-2008 07:43
Wow I might finally be tempted to leave my Nicholaz browser (from May) alone & download an RC for the first time in more than a year. Hm...then again, that would mean crashing more than twice a month
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~ In Shakespeare, 'Tis The Fool Who Speaks The Most Profound Truth. ~
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Buckaroo Mu
Alpha Geek
Join date: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 106
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12-04-2008 21:57
Wow I might finally be tempted to leave my Nicholaz browser (from May) alone & download an RC for the first time in more than a year. Hm...then again, that would mean crashing more than twice a month Uh... this isn't in the RC It's only available in KristenLee's viewer - hang on, let me dig through my pockets...http://kirstenleecinquetti.blogspot.com/2008/11/shadowdraft-sd4-r1-yay.html Great for photo shooting, or checking out the features... but don't expect to use it as a regular client. |
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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12-05-2008 00:39
Yes, the new viewer can render shadows. Yes, another viewer brought us amazing water with ripples and reflections and clouds that drift by like bunnies. But why? To create more "realness"? For what? Again, LL builds more cool bells and whistles but hasn't figured out why we would want to blow or ring them. Or even if it's important to SL users. Too many people come into SL, buy a plot of land, rez a house, add furniture, a little dance area and sex bed, and wait for "the game"/anything to begin. Then after 2 weeks, they never return. This doesn't solve the problem LL has: To get more than 10% of the people who sample SL to become engaged with SL. As cool as they are, shadows don't engage anyone. If you don't want shadows and are happy to play SL in B&W, that's fine, but stop opposing other peoples choice of viewer. _____________________
Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107) |
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Dakota Tebaldi
Voodoo Child
Join date: 6 Feb 2008
Posts: 1,873
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12-05-2008 09:51
Unfortunately, the latest blogpost from KirstenLee says he's shut off downloads indefinitely. Anybody know an alternate FTP site, or any alternate shadow viewers?
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"...Dakota will grow up to be very scary... but in a HOT and desireable kind of way." - 3Ring Binder
"I really do think it's a pity he didnt "age" himself to 18." - Jig Chippewa  |
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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12-05-2008 10:03
Unfortunately, the latest blogpost from KirstenLee says he's shut off downloads indefinitely. Anybody know an alternate FTP site, or any alternate shadow viewers? Hmm I just downloaded latest version about 12 hours ago? _____________________
Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107) |
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Calveen Kline
In pursuit of Happiness
Join date: 5 Jan 2007
Posts: 682
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12-05-2008 10:22
Nope. FTP site is empty... It'd be great if someone kept a copy of the installer and has the means to make it available to the rest of us hungry for shadows...
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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12-05-2008 10:43
Here you go:
http://rapidshare.com/files/170573930/Kirstens_SD4-R1.exe.html Here's an older one, SD2-R7, it's the last one I was able to get screen shots to work in: http://rapidshare.com/files/170575156/Kirstens_SD2-R7.exe.html I'm not sure if it has the security patches from the last mandatory update or not. Use it at your own risk. |
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Dakota Tebaldi
Voodoo Child
Join date: 6 Feb 2008
Posts: 1,873
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12-05-2008 10:48
That's cool - but it just occurred to me: perhaps someone should ask Kirsten if he minds other people passing his viewer around. I don't think he would, but for the principle and all that.
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"...Dakota will grow up to be very scary... but in a HOT and desireable kind of way." - 3Ring Binder
"I really do think it's a pity he didnt "age" himself to 18." - Jig Chippewa |
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Dakota Tebaldi
Voodoo Child
Join date: 6 Feb 2008
Posts: 1,873
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12-05-2008 11:53
Wow, you can make some nice effects with this thing.
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"...Dakota will grow up to be very scary... but in a HOT and desireable kind of way." - 3Ring Binder
"I really do think it's a pity he didnt "age" himself to 18." - Jig Chippewa |
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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12-05-2008 12:10
That's cool - but it just occurred to me: perhaps someone should ask Kirsten if he minds other people passing his viewer around. I don't think he would, but for the principle and all that. I asked her in world but she never answered me. If I hear she doesn't want the executables redistributed anymore, I'll remove the links from my post. |
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Maklin Deckard
Disillusioned
Join date: 9 Apr 2005
Posts: 459
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12-05-2008 13:56
Wow, You have a better system than me in some ways, I have 4gb ram, 3GHz processor, 8600GT/512 video and I routinely pull in 40-50fps even in high traffic areas! And I run the client on ULTRA with everything maxed out. Heck, I can jump my draw distance up to 512k on a crowded sim and still pull in 20fps. I wonder why my system handles SL so much better than yours? Handy I used to be able to run like that (in some places, not most though), then came windlight.... Wish to hell I knew what was the issue. Tried it with various flavors of windows (XP Home, XP Pro, Vista Ultimate ... working in IT has its benefits with NFR editions), done all the tweaking Pastrami and others suggest in the various forums and Jirae, ands its the same thing. Full format, install just the required drivers and SL...same....pre windlight ran much, much better for me than Windlight ever has.  I would literally be at 1 FPS with shadows. As is, I have it running at 128 draw (256+ is just too great a hit to FPS at about 1/3 loss) and just objects maxxed on detail (so sculpties actually look right and circles are not hexagons). I am Estatic if I get 20 FPS anywhere, and if there are more than a half dozen avatars present, call 10 a good day. Since windlight, the only time I see 40-50 is up high enough that I can't see land and loking straight up at nothing in mouselook so I can't acidentally see my avatar.Contrast this with WoW, says 65-70FPS, Anarchy Online 50-55FPS, and any of the latest 3D games (Fallout 3 comes to mind) that run flawless on the same hardware. Since its ONLY SL that has issues, I am incredibly leery of any pronouncement that 'you can shut it of and it won't affect you' since for me that has been proven wrong. I just wish I could get an LL based version of the current client, minus windlight. |
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Maklin Deckard
Disillusioned
Join date: 9 Apr 2005
Posts: 459
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12-05-2008 14:05
If you don't want shadows and are happy to play SL in B&W, that's fine, but stop opposing other peoples choice of viewer. Time to oppose it is now. Because once LL decides to incorporate it, WE WON'T GET A CHOICE, just like we didn't get a choice with Windlight. We'll get it rammed down our throats by the lab and when it DOES impact us turned off, the lab will go 'la la la can't hear you' like Pastrami Linden does when folks bring up the framerate hit from windlight. So now is the time to make sure any lab-employee reading this knows there are folks that don't want it and would be adversely affected by it. HOPEFULLY, they won't pick the idea back up, since it was mentioned they dropped it. |
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Dytska Vieria
+/- .00004™
Join date: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 768
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12-05-2008 17:42
OK, folks, before you start bitching undeservedly at the Lindens, can I just point out that the Shadow viewer was DROPPED by Linden Labs, and has been COMMUNITY developed, and that it is unambiguously PRE-ALPHA in quality right now. Quoted that since some people don't read back very far! Remember, this isn't just about shadows. It also means that every light source will show up - so if you have a night scene with a building full of lights, each one will show up properly, even in the distance, instead of only the 6 closest (probably four of which are some bimbo's facelight constellation). That is awesome - I tested this out with about 30 light sources in a building and it was awesome. I have a HUD that controls the brightness, color and glow and was able to see some very nice effect. I wonder if it's possible to have more than 6 light sources without shadows to keep the FPS at a desirable level? _____________________
+/- 0.00004
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Pie Psaltery
runs w/scissors
Join date: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 987
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12-06-2008 06:30
Time to oppose it is now. Because once LL decides to incorporate it, WE WON'T GET A CHOICE, just like we didn't get a choice with Windlight. We'll get it rammed down our throats by the lab and when it DOES impact us turned off, the lab will go 'la la la can't hear you' like Pastrami Linden does when folks bring up the framerate hit from windlight. So now is the time to make sure any lab-employee reading this knows there are folks that don't want it and would be adversely affected by it. HOPEFULLY, they won't pick the idea back up, since it was mentioned they dropped it. You've been here long enough, Maklin, to know that resident opposition has never impacted LL in their decisions about which bells or whistles to frankenstein onto their product, haven't you? _____________________
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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12-06-2008 14:57
Time to oppose it is now. Because once LL decides to incorporate it, WE WON'T GET A CHOICE, just like we didn't get a choice with Windlight. We'll get it rammed down our throats by the lab and when it DOES impact us turned off, the lab will go 'la la la can't hear you' like Pastrami Linden does when folks bring up the framerate hit from windlight. So now is the time to make sure any lab-employee reading this knows there are folks that don't want it and would be adversely affected by it. HOPEFULLY, they won't pick the idea back up, since it was mentioned they dropped it. Just because some are happy with SL's 90's quality graphics, doesn't mean we should stay there for the next 20 years. Windlight is great, caused no problems either of my machines. Did people bleat like this about sculpties & flexiprims being trialled too? I suppose some are campaining against Restrained Life Viewer too because they think LL will make it compulsory. _____________________
Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107) |
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Calveen Kline
In pursuit of Happiness
Join date: 5 Jan 2007
Posts: 682
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I Love This Viewer!!!!
12-08-2008 05:10
Downloaded and installed Kirstens_SD2_R7. Had only to switch RenderUseFBO and RenderDeferred to TRUE and Voila!.. Shadows!!!
My frame rate went from a normally 30-50fps to a livable 17-30fps. I also noticed my bandwith demand go from an average of 50kbit to an average of 300kbit. Other than that, fine as usual. Here are a couple of test shots: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/SIb3Nj_cfIXnAl8-_-uV2w http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/DINdNCjO0YgbANNaaBvipw My system info: WinXP, SP3 AMD Athlon 5200+, 2.71GHz 2 Gb RAM NVidia GeForce 8800GT, 512 Mb VRAM _____________________
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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12-22-2008 15:20
Kirstenlee has put some of her Shadowdraft viewers back online.
SD2-R7, SD4-R1 and SD4-R2 (new!) are there for now at least. http://kirstenleecinquetti.blogspot.com/ _____________________
 http://www.avatarsunited.com/avatars/milla-janick All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... |
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Ollj Oh
Registered User
Join date: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 522
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12-22-2008 17:02
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Ollj Oh
Registered User
Join date: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 522
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12-22-2008 19:36
So why are shadows sharp on transparent (upper) faces and blurry on faces without alpha layer (lower) ?
 And Why is a transparent-prim-shadow created from the face with its normal AWAY from the light source (lower) instread of from the face that goes towards the light source (upper) ? The later would be more realistic on reflections bvut you make that look too funny. And can we possibly ever get a refracted, lensed, shadow |
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Ollj Oh
Registered User
Join date: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 522
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12-22-2008 19:42
Just look at the awesome shaddow of this...
 FOR SALE sign. |
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Kasuga Hax
Hanja Welcome Area Helper
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 284
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12-23-2008 02:08
It looks all pretty good with this viewer. I am tempted to try it.
However, I install this client, and log in using my usual login? for the same LL/SL grid? Or is this a complete new grid? _____________________
Reality is an illusion, caused due to lack of alcohol.
Als een rommelig bureau een rommelige geest betekent, wat betekent dan een leeg bureau? De kwaliteitsverbeteringsinitiatieven. |