Dragon's den/American Inventor concept.

I referenced in the "insurance agency" thread which I started earlier a new acquaintance of mine who is pretty new to SL and enthusiastic to do something reasonably original whilst making a few L$. She is eager for feedback so said I would ask here. The insurance idea sucks but this idea has possibilities I think.

Hopefully most of you are familiar with the UK TV show Dragon's Den and the US version American inventor. So the person I was talking to wants to try and recreate the format in SL

Get 5 - 10 or more of SL's best selling content creators on a panel. Invite aspiring content creators to present business proposals to the panel. For example someone creates a new product such as a HUD to coordinate group synchronized sky diving formations. They create a product and effectively have to start a business from scratch. Instead they present and demo the idea to the panel and the panel then has the chance to question them and possibly invest in the idea. If someone is interested they can then invest money in starting the business, use their existing business contacts and advertising to promote the new product to raise awareness and sales, offer vendor space in busy stores or just ad space and LM. In return the investing panel member would receive part ownership of the "inventors" product taking a % of the sales in proportion to what the panel member chooses to invest.

The whole thing would be heavily promoted, "episodes" would be videoed and stuck on youtube plus there would be an accompanying website, group news letter plus the events themselves which people could watch as audience members. Overall the panel members and the inventors should get more exposure which hopefully would lead to sales.

I can see a few obvious problems but I’m bored of typing now

Why will this idea fail?

I can see a few obvious problems but I’m bored of typing now

Pep (You answered your own question in advance)

Well that's as helpful as a chocolate teapot. I got bored because I typed loads of words, look at them, there is LOADS of them. I am not bored with the idea though I think it could be fun.

Well that's as helpful as a chocolate teapot. I got bored because I typed loads of words, look at them, there is LOADS of them. I am not bored with the idea though I think it could be fun.

The main problem I see is that there is no verification for anything in SL; e.g. sales. In RL, people need investment for premises, materials, etc., but that's not the case in SL, and once a product is selling ok, there is nothing to prevent the creator from cutting out the investor(s). In SL, no significant financial investment is needed, anyway.

Perhaps the game could be changed to one where the applicants present their products in the hope that the dragons will allow them to be sold in their stores, where traffic is.

Starting a business in SL doesn't really require much investment. There isn't any manufacturing costs.

But it could work if the "investors" were able to buy full rights to the product and sell it themselves.

I suspect many content creators don't like dealing with customers and so are willing to sell their items for resale.

It could work!

It could!

Yep that's what I think. Maybe a better way would be for the investor to buy an idea outright. But again whats to stop the original creator from selling the deisgn and then promoting it themselves in direct competition. I guess the lack of any regulation in SL will doom this idea as there is no way of securing an investors interests without RL legal contracts.

I think the biggest benefit would be exposure. Yeah starting a business is cheap and easy. However getting to #1 in the search ranking and becoming a brand leader making sales every few minutes 24/7 is not easy. So I think the biggest investment a person could make is not money, it would be to associate their established successful business with an aspiring new business or product. Give them space and exposure to sell the product to your existing customer base. Or as you said, buy it outright and do it yourself.

I am being deadly serious Porky. Most people reading this forum are, like most supplicants featured in the Dragon's Den that I have seen, unable or unwilling to articulate their product/service/whatever in a comprehensible form to such an extent that any sensible investor would wish to commit funds.

Pep (If you consider your post "loads" of words then my point is probably made already)

A 'panel' cannot be trusted to be any sort of innovative body when it comes to the discovery and production of new ideas for the world.

That should be pretty obvious. Not everyone is capable of seeing the same vision.

Can you believe that when i was starting the first Island Sim mall in SL LOTS of people said "it will never work" and "while will people go to an island estate when there plenty stores of the mainland?", and there were several major retailers who did not travel with me from Aqua Galleria to Galleria City.

Heck even when i made aqua Galleria i recall being told "You will never get enough retailers in here", "the place is too big", and "why would anyone use a mall?".

Jeebus, it has been over 4 years since the first pose ball came out and still 99% of you use them floating over your furniture - where is the innovation? It definitely did not take until 2008 for someone to write a script to bypass the use of pose balls in furniture, all it would have taken was the creative use of the pose ball years ago, which is for the most part still not happening today.

I would put ZERO faith in any panel to accomplish any sort of forward movement on any idea, especially one that goes against the grain. Because to support an innovative idea you have to have faith in the person who thought of it and the ability to envision the end result like the creator, or often the idea seems a poor one not worth putting any effort into.

Aside also from the dishonesty possibility, consider greed and insecurity-

I remind you of a small idea called Cheap Peeps - many were unwilling to so much as inform their groups even though in the long run everyone would have benefited from the additional exposure-

What makes you think any of the so called Dragons would actually then promote this person's business in their stores when they may be so afraid of competition? A percentage of sales is not as good as all of the sales. (There would need be some sort of similarity in goods I would assume - else how would you blend the "winner's" items with your own in your store? Hence competition.)

You give someone 5 minutes to demonstrate a product. If the product is good enough then it should sell itself with a practical demonstration. Allot of people in Dragon's Den are admittedly generally unprepared, they haven’t forecasted future sales over a 5 year period or they don’t have a proper business plan or are unable to answer basic questions on their product and sales history. I think the approach in SL would need to be different, simplistic. No need for a business plan or sales forecasts. Literally describe the product in basic terms, Demonstrate the product if applicable and answer any question the panel may have about the product.

I think just because people maybe aren’t as articulate as you, doesn’t take anything away from their ability to create a good original product and to promote it. Successful people in SL are capable of recognising something that will appeal to their customer base and they don't require the designer to have a degree in English language (or any other language) to tell them what will earn them money. They already know. So I think a competition like this should be open to all rather than the literate elite.

And regarding my use of 'Loads' of words, I think I used quite enough for an OP. I am not writing an essay here so don't feel the need write 2000 words in every post.

Yes I agree that an idea is driven by the creator and it's difficult for others to share their vison. But I dont think people should be able to submit ideas. I am thinking fully designed working end products that are ready to be marketted and sold. So I would expect a panel member to have faith in their own ability to spot a good product and to know how to promote it properly to create the best return.

Creating a trusting relationship between inventor and investor will be tricky though.

If I understood your "cheap peep's" concept correctly, business owners involved in your group would hand over lists of their own existing group members creating a sort of "supergroup" that can then be spammed with ads and promotions from multuple entities. If I got that right then I can understand an unwillingness to participate.

Regarding your second point, I think you are right, there could conflict of interest in supporting a specific product of someone who has existing business interests that are already in competion with your own.

It's not about a panel coming to a decision. It's about each individual on the panel making a decision for him/herself.


You may have missed the 2nd paragraph in my post, Porky, as it was an addition. It suggests that the panel is presented with new products to see if any of them will place them for sale in their stores, with vendors that share the proceeds. The people on the panel would need to be those who have a good amount of real traffic, of course.

That suggestion covers the idea of competition that Amar brought up. For instance, I wouldn't choose to have other people's furniture on sale in my store, but I would have other people's non-competing items on sale there (I already have 4 people's non-competing items on sale in the store - actually one does compete but it's not furniture).

If you could get something like that going, it could be very good. It would serve two purposes. One is that it will allow new creators to get their stuff out there without risking money for mall spaces or land. Another is that it will be profitable for all concerned. To my mind, the most important is the first one - giving new creators a helping hand.

Yes I think this is along the lines of what they are thinking and is really the only way to manage joint sales of a single item.

Also to be realistic I wouldn't expect that many issues with competition and would expect 99 out of 100 applicants to fail to produce something original enough to be of interest to the investors. The unlucky 99 would still get a bit of exposure and some good advice and a mention on the website so not a complete waste of time. If I was on that panel of investors I would be looking for something really pretty new and unique that hasn't been done a hundred times before. Even if it's not prefab related I would still consider investing in it and promoting through my stores if I believed there would be a profitable return. In fact I did this in the past, when one of the first textures organisers was released years ago, I hosted a vendor with 20% commission on every sale. It was a very good success

I see some really interesting products in SL that are lost in obscurity, stores have no traffic, minimal sales and no real clue on how to market and advertise effectively in SL. I think if this idea is developed properly it could work and be enjoyable to follow for those not participating. I would never volunteer to manage this sort of idea myself though. Just getting all the relevant people in the right place at the right time will be hard enough to begin with!

Something Porky said in #11 sparked an idea...

Instead of a panel, have LL (or some other independent philanthropist) donate sim space for a meeting area.

Inventors would book this meeting area in advance. Product showings would be advertised in Showcase and in the Events calendar and on an external web page with a SLURL link to the demo area.

ANYONE who was intrigued by the blurb for the new product could come and see it demonstrated.

Along with the demo, the maker would rez a landmark giver and a product vendor. Anyone who wanted the product could buy it right then and there. Anyone who wanted to think about it could take a landmark to the maker's in world store (and it wouldn't have to be a big store, just a little kiosk, if the maker is just starting out.)

I would like to see this "New Product Showcase" offered for free...but maybe someone would also put together something like this and charge a small fee for makers of new products to come and make use of the venue.

This approach avoids having to round up a bunch of venture capitalists (of which there are none in SL that I know of), but still provides a kind of springboard for new and innovative products.

You do realise that in the Dragon's Den they get a couple of hours to make their pitch, demonstrate the product and answer questions don't you? The extracts shown on TV are the "best" bits""!

Pep (Are you proposing a verbal contract too?)

Apropros nothing except the discussion of competition alluded to here, if you really want to give customers (although maybe just most of the male ones) what they want then start making malls that specialise in one type of product, not diverse items.

If I want men's clothing, I would much prefer to go to a mall that had only men's clothing shops in it, rather than rez my way through stores flogging irrelevant female clothing, furniture, skins etc . . .

I know this isn't the way that retailers want to sell to us, because they don't really want to be situated too close to perhaps better quality or priced competition, and they want to sell stuff we didn't realise we wanted to buy. But we blokes shop differently (or in the end *don't* shop) because we can't be bothered with all the extraneous stuff we have to wade through that makes acquiring what we want a painful business. I know that tping makes it easier to get from one shop to the next found in search for "male suits" but the extra effort is annoying and ultimately a deterrent.

Pep (There are some women like that too.)

Contestants on Dragons Den will spend years developing a product and will already have significant money invested by the time they present it to the dragons. I think we need to stop the direct comparisons with Dragons Den and simply use it as an inspiration rather than a working concept for SL. Simplify everything to make it as accessible as possible and easy to manage.

Regarding a verbal contract, I don’t think any contract is necessary. As Phil, suggested just sell through vendors that’s split the proceeds. If the creator or investor decides to end their association then they end it. Hopefully if both are making money from it then there will not be a problem plus both will have gained exposure through the whole process.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood the title of the thread.

Pep (Why don't you just start a thread in the Products Wanted or Products for Sale forums?)

Why not just form a group of teams and give them a project to make? IE: the Parachute Formation Hud and see who's is best? The concept you are talking about could put a Pair of Nunchucks Verses a Highly Advanced Indy Car..

As I understand it, it's not A vs B vs C vs D. It's a pitch for acceptance by each individual panel member, and the acceptances can be anywhere from all panel members accepting it to no panel members accepting it. I.e all can win and all can lose.

I am not saying you misunderstood the title. The thread has now developed though and clearly replicating the Dragon's Den concept isn't feasable as you have helped illustrate with your input. So NOW we should stop the direct comparison and look at Dragon's Den for inspiration in order to push the discussion forward.



Because I am not selling a product nor do I want a product.

If you are not happy participating with the thread in RA then feel free to leave and thanks for your input.

People wouldnt compete against each other. I think they would simply be presenting an idea to a panel of people all of whom have different business interests in SL. So nunchucks would appeal more to a panel member making weapons and the indy car to a car designer/builder. Although all the Dragons may express an opinion on a products feasability as most successful people have a good understanding of many aspects of SL and not just their own field of interest. There would be no gaurenteed winner, we could have 100 contestants and all of them fail to impress the Dragons. It would be up to each individual Dragon to decide what is best for their own interests with no pressure applied to force them into backing something that they don't want to back.