Conversational Salon?

Strangely enough, Open Latte didn't advertise, held very few "events," and was run by, for all intents and purposes, an absentee owner. I've never really understand why it was so popular: there were no dance balls or poses to speak of, the music was unremarkable . . . And yet it was the single most popular place I've ever come across, on a 24/7 basis, in SL.

/me shrugs. Go figure.

You're welcome Scylla and that's partly what I wanted to say, though I did it clumsily.

It IS a nice bookstore.

That was one of the "draws" for me to Open Latte - that it was more of a "bookshop/intellectual" type of atmosphere. If I want to hear music and dance, there are plenty of places for that.

The Etopia sim holds Friday night discussions that remind me a bit of Open Latte. I'm not sure if it is posted in events (I would imagine so) but is definitely announced in the Etopia groups. Jojogirl Bailey would be the contact for that.

I hopped around and tried out a few of the places listed here. The one that really grabbed on to me was the Jittery Junco. There were 4 nice people there already dancing and chatting away and a hippo joined the party not long after me. I kicked around and chatted for about an hour. Surely, this place is worth a return trip. (^_^)

I checked out The Cove and the Junkyard Blues club. The blues club had an event going, so it was packed to the gills with avatars but no real chatting from what I could catch. The Cove was pretty much empty. And, I noticed a glut of high resolution textures which made the place take forever to load in comparison to all the other places I visited today. (>_<

I visited Madhu's for the first time. That was a fun build and a very nice place. I was enjoying the music on the stream there, but, it lacked people. If there were a crowd, I would have had tons of incentive to stay around. (^_^)

I TPed into Watchman and found myself on a dock with a free boat rezzer nearby. There was something that looked like a complete Stonehenge, but again, no crowd. If there were more people.... (^_^)

Still.. The list that's forming here shows a lot of promise for finding good hangouts. If anyone's got some more ideas or and good times / bad times for the places already mentioned, I'd sure like to hear them. (^_^)y

I'd vote mainland over island. Islands are run by estate holder that have a vested interest in generating lots of commercial traffic in order to pay their tier. That means if the place was successful it would be against their interests to keep as it would be lagging paying customers...

Mainland on the other hand - a single 512 parcel somewhere could fit the thing, and there are plenty of empty sims now with protected 512 land surrounded by residential or abandoned parcels or parcels that are so badly cut they will never sell...

Ie: perfect place to hide a traffic hotspot.

While age-verify could be used, a wiser choice would simply be PioF.

If it was me, I would put it in a skybox on a no script no fly no create parcel. Put a teleporter at ground. The place could force TPs to either ground or the skybox - the TP at ground is really just to make it easier to get back to 'exploring the neighborhood.'

Putting it in a skybox just makes it easier to avoid neighbor issues.

But then that's how I did my own home parcel, and I kept ground as a pleasant little gazebo, flowers, and tree - essentially so I could easily be on good terms with any neighbors.


It can happen that a place just coalesces into something, but its not common and not predictable. Or rather it might be common, but you can never predict or control where it will happen. It will just happen somewhere.
- If you have a place you want to become a community, you have to drive it there.


If you all want to know where it has "happened" in present SL, I think you're looking for either Moose Beach (I never go there, so I'm probably misspelling it) or Sexy Nude Beach...
- Places that have 24/7 full sim traffic (Sexy's Sim seem to crash from being too full quiet often) and lots of chat - but its not the -kind- of community I suspect most here desire... even if one is PG and the other adult.
- The places you all want are already there, and those two above both just 'happened', but they just aren't places with the vibe you all might want.

I do hope you found the treehouse right next door though? Sadly the cafe is not used much though there are now quite a few residents in the sim. It would be more suitable for someone deciding to start a conversation group and needing a nice place to hold it - which of course they would be very welcome to.

There is an idea, perhaps those of you who are searching for this type of conversation place could form a group with the express purpose of talking, you could set themes, have meets. Maybe even a different place to gather every time?

I walked right past that treehouse and all over the place before thinking to go back to where I'd TP'd in and try camming up a little. Then I saw the TPer to go up and discovered the cafe.

It might be low traffic from being hard to notice. I arrived when the sim was in night. Is there a sign or something down below that I missed?

Well there is a coffee tp sign on the treehouse itself but I get your point. I shall put up a sign to make it more visible.
Thanks for the input

I was at Open Latte and the Mill Pond from early 2007 until it shut down this year in April, and it always had SL residents hanging out, and for the most part events were sparse and infrequent. Micala, the owner/creator, was hardly ever there, at least in any way that was noticeable (many people speculated that she had alts that would hangout there). She had a very hands off attitude about running the sim and abhorred the idea of policing it which, I think, is one of the reasons she shut it down.

From what I understand, the Mill Pond and Open Latte were originally populated largely by artists and creators that Micala had met throughout her fairly long tenure (since 2004) in Second Life (perhaps in real life as well). In real life Micala is the Social Networks Adviser for Penn State World Campus and it's very likely that although she had a hands off approach to managing the Mill Pond that she did take proactive steps to attract the original community of Open Latte and the Mill Pond. The rest of the people flocked to the place because it was a nice build and people were already there. As the years went by though, I noticed that fewer and fewer of the Open Latte "veterans" would visit the sim (it really hit me over the head when I noticed people who arrived over a year after me were being referred to by others as "old timers" of the Mill Pond and Open Latte). Part of it was probably due to attrition in Second Life in general and part of it was probably because of the change in the overall composition of the people hanging out there (another reason that lead to its ultimate demise).

From my perspective, the reason why the Mill Pond and Open Latte have not been replaced by some other venue is because (1) no one has created an equivalent venue and (2) we are now spread thinly over the multiple venues that Scylla mentioned.

A text entry field designed for entering multiple lines of text, possibly even an entire paragraph, would be nice.

This. ^

If I could just remember to have Notepad open it would be so much easier to edit than the text chat field. But then I would have to remember to keep it down to readable levels and not fill up others screens.

Thanks for visiting. This comment of yours just cuts me to the quick. We get 60-80 visitors a day and many of them don't stay because when they arrive, there is no one else there. If they just stayed for 10 minutes, they'd be likely to run into someone else, and then very quickly there is a little nucleation point and suddenly a small crowd.

I have seen this happen when I have the time to sit there and foster a small crowd. Unfortunately I can't do it nearly as much as I would like.

But I think it's a problem not just for me but every hangout in SL. For every person who arrives, sees the place empty, and immediately leaves, there is often another person just minutes behind them who unfortunately does exactly the same thing.

I know what you mean, Madhu. It helps if there's a host/ess, but I've seen it happen at events if there's no one other than the host/ess. Someone will arrive, look around, say, "Oh, I'm the only one who came tonight? Well, maybe some other time," and TP out. The next person will arrive, look around, say, "Oh, I'm the only one who came tonight? Well, maybe some other time," and TP out. And so on...

And then they will complain that events never have people at them...

(It used to happen to me a lot at my old job, as a hostess in a formal dance club. It happens much less at my new job, as a hostess in a hangout/rock club. I don't know if it's the informal vs. formal atmosphere, or the fact that since we have DJs there are always two people at events, so anyone arriving creates critical mass for a conversational nucleus.)

I must confess, I've been guilty of this a time or two myself. I think the sheer number of events and places to go in SL plays a role.

The Aether Salon in Babbage has a nice crowd, I think. Formal dress recommended.. it is a Victorian sim... but a fun place indeed.

What cuts me to the quick is when people who have never taken a moment to know me make snap decisions about me based on drama strumming posts of others.

Anyways, I have been there.

Can't say i feel welcomed enough to return...

One reason places host events or set a theme is to keep that first just long enough for the second to arrive, and so on.

A good DJing setup, like a dance club, will hook them for the needed 11.3 seconds...

A good theme will do it as well, at times. This is the only way I can explain 'Sexy Nude Beach' which has no bots, no DJ, no host, an AWOL owner, and so on... All it has is the name, and a couple of poseballs anyone with a group tag can get on and access a tipjar with (7 dancing, 2 bartender, and 1 DJ - yes, a DJ poseball if I remember right, I didn't try it). Yet I have rarely seen -less- than 50 people in there, regardless of the time of day.
- People show up because the theme sounds like you're going to get something, and stay because there isn't any of the usual 'free adult' spam around, and then they realize there's chat going on...
- That chat can get juvenile at times... and is never really sophisticated or engaging, but the place is still an uncannily successful social hangout.

It sounds like Open Latte got its kick off from hard effort in RL as well, back in its early moments. Once the steam is rolling, it'll keep on going - but you have to get it rolling...

I had to Google “Cuts me to the quick”... Still can’t say I understand. (O.o)

But, I do get what you mean about heavy yet sparse traffic. In my own search, I’m looking for people over places. So my driving force to remain at a place rides on the people I find there. I can see how this hurts hangouts. (>_<

In my own point of view, I have to consider my electric bill and the never ending rush of heat being blown out of the back of my computer when I decide if I’m going to do something, stay somewhere, or involve myself in something. If I have to wait 10 minutes for something or someone to become available to engage with, sadly, I’m really left with no choice but to move on. Particularly when I’m looking for crowds of 4 or more. (T_T)

At the same time, I’m not looking for major events either. Too much of a crowd and it’s hard to carry a discussion. Though, discussion events would be nice. Even if to just have an overlying topic to break the ice. Also, events can constrict the available crowds at a place. The people may be around for the hour of the event. But, come the time the attraction fades, it empties just as quickly. We can see this in the complaints the Cartel Hangout gets over Euro-friendly time slots. (>_<

I don’t have an entourage that follows me anywhere. So, while a place may be a good build or a welcoming location; Without people filling it upon my arrival, I wouldn’t stick around if the place were heaven itself. I can isolate myself just fine at home. Not so fun to carry that over to other places. (T_T)

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse. What I meant was, the complaint "nice place but no one's ever there" resonated for me, because I've heard it so much about both my own place and other places I like (such as the Forum Cartel Hangout).



Yep. And I don't mean to insist that people hang around some empty place waiting for someone else to show up, if there's something else they'd rather be doing. It's a real dilemma that (as I think I said) haunts everyone who wants to promote a hangout in SL.

I freely admit, also, that even though the best remedy at my own place is for me to be there, I get bitter about spending all my SL time there, and resent not being able to get out on the grid and DO THINGS. It's a constant struggle for me, too, to balance my impulse to host at my place with the desire to not be on duty all the time. I'm sure other hangout owners face similar dilemmas.

The problem may not be Second Life as much as your conversational style. No matter how fluffy, juvenile, or pointless small talk may seem to you on the surface, it's actually pretty vital within the context of conversations or the group dynamic in which conversations actually take place. When we engage in small talk, we're actually feeling out the other parties involved, making some pretty important judgments about levels of interest and attraction, refining those judgments, and affirming or re-affirming friendship or group identity. Stuff like that. Even when we're talking about the weather or the generic local sports team, we're sending out all of these signals (consciously and unconsciously) and responding to the ones that other people are sending out (consciously and unconsciously).

All conversations (even "'real' [ones] with other intelligent free thinking adults" have to start somewhere, right? If you find yourself walking out or tuning out on the appetizer frequently, then that may be why you keep missing the main course.

At the same time, specific topics of conversation may be more sophisticated than you realize. A lot of the SL fashion conversations I've been involved in personally are really discussions about things like aesthetics, style, and the construction of identity (even if the parties involved wouldn't necessarily use those particular terms). And, really, just a few strategically timed questions and comments can bring a lot of interesting things to the surface.

I've had a lot of really fascinating and interesting conversations on SL -- certainly more than a hundred, and I haven't even quite made it to the one-year mark yet. And I guess that this is generally applicable, so I'll say that the virtual trappings of the spaces in which I've had them have had little bearing on their quality. I've had great conversations in sandboxes, stereotypical SL clubs (think skill 'sploders and contest boards), more socially-oriented clubs, shops, and even strip clubs.

So, to the extent that part of this thread seems focused on figuring out how to make good conversation spots, my own personal advice would be to look for good conversationalists and find some way to entice them to spend a lot of time in your space.

Pep is right BUT whenever we start to get unrestricted a kid avi can show up and we gotta pretend its a 8 year old in our midst like in forum cartel. Pep is right - we dont need nannies.

Well is a saying that is prolly midlands in origin. The quick is the ridge of skin just under the nail. So a person who trims their nails too short can be "cut to the quick". In speech it means it has been hurtful and even upsetting - teeth jarring.
Tons of english phrases like that:
"May as well be hanged fo a sheep as a lamb."
"mutton dressed up as lamb

QFT. I wish I'd posted this.

I *would* like to add to it by pointing out that small talk is a hell of a lot easier to get going if the person you are trying to chat to has a hook or two in their profile (sorry if you think this is cross-posting from that other thread about profiles) that you can hang an opening gambit on. It's also handy to know from the profile (in the land of the small white clouds) whether the avatar is supposed to be male or female (can't rely on the name, can you ) and even their sexuality. An indication of language competency also helps; I once had a fairly one sided and ultimately pointless fifteen minute conversation with a girl who only spoke Hungarian as it turned out, and whose grasp of English didn't extend further than LOL - which tells you something about how easy I find it to start up a monologue.

Pep (No - Liandra's *not* my alt!)

LOL! =^-^=

/me screws up his eyes to check whether Immy said LOL! or LOLI . . .

Pep ( . . . and wonders whether the Hungarian girl was saying something similar as well. )

Ironically, I almost never look at other people's profiles myself (and yeah, I know I'm in a very small minority there). I actually prefer to ask questions (even stupid ones!) in the hopes of starting up conversations or keeping them going. At least when I'm in a gregarious mood. And my own profile is very sparse, I think in the hope that people will ask me questions and talk to me if they want to get to know me.

You're right, though. It's definitely a lot harder to go into a conversation completely cold, which is what I was getting at from a different angle. Milla said that she's disappointed that she hasn't been finding the intellectually stimulating conversations that she's craving. To be fair, I don't know exactly what her idea of such a conversation might look like, but whatever her definition actually is, I don't think that you can reach the level of familiarity and comfort necessary without engaging in small talk first.



Uh oh. I'm a little worried now. How can I be sure? Is there a test I can take to be certain?