Differences between Grandfather and Normal Island Sims

I've done a bit of searching but cant find the differences between a normal private island sim and a grandfather island sim. I understand that the price is different. $295 v $195 per month and if you buy a second hand island then the grandfather one will be more expensive. Also that Linden 'may' bring the pricing in line so they're both the same. But what other differences are there? I read somewhere on the forums that the older sims dont have voice? Or that they maybe slower? But what are the FACTS? Not rumours?

Anyone?

the older sims are class 4 servers and the newer one are class 5 -

That makes a big difference in script performance many have said.

Not completely true...there are a handful of Class 5s on the Grandfathered rate...I happen to own one of them.

...there is no difference between my Class 5 and the $295 Class 5s.

It's a sore subject and that's a fact!

It depends on your definition of "a handful" .

All of the sims ordered during the November '06 'island rush" were grandfathered class 5 sims. I don't think they ever put a number on it but they did mention that the amount of land would increase by 30% on the cut-off date due to all the orders.

At the end of October 2006 there were 2006 private sims and 1281 mainland sims which would put the amount of grandfathered class 5 sims at 980.

How much is that proportionally though?

Officially class 4 servers and class 5 have comparable performance, but several people have mentioned that there is a tangible difference under heavy script load.

I am personally wondering how long LL are going to continue maintaining hardware that they consider obsolete simply to spite people who didn't want to pay the tier increase, but that's just me

The grandfather sims are where all the old people hang out

hey!! I resemble that remark!!!

Today you mean?

http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy_stats.php says there are 22,296 private sims today so about 1 in 8 sims would be a grandfathered - class 4 or 5 - sim (13%) and 1 in 25 would be a grandfathered class 5 (4%).

(Assuming that the "30% increase in land mass" on the blog was more or less accurate in the first place and not just another "pretty number" )

so a little less than 1/3 of the grandfathered sims are class 5

Something to consider for someone thinking of buying one.

And at one time, Grandfathered sims did not have voice. However, I don't know if this is still the case. Desmond should be able to answer that one, he has a fair number of old, Grandfathered sims.

I have a Class 4 sim, and it does support voice.

As far as I remember grandfathered sims always had voice right from the beginning.

What you might be remembering is that LL originally played with the idea that grandfathered sims would only have voice during the trial period and that they would have to "upgrade" to $295/month in order to get voice. Nothing ever came of that in the end though.

They were not going to get voice included with their normal fee -

But I do not think that distinction was ever actually implemented.

Probably wasn't worth the effort.

Back about March 2007, when we saw a commentary about denying voice to older regions unless we paid another 100 USD a month, a number of estate owners calmly, rationally, approached a few people and said: look, please reconsider.

Much to the Company's credit, they did.

* * * * *

195/mo might seem unfair nowadays, but I tell you what - that big 2006/2007 boom was possible *because* the original members created the content and the areas that made this grid compelling.

We suffered issues that make the service issues going on today seem like kid stuff. Imagine the grid being completely, utterly inaccessible for days. Griefers taking the *entire* grid down every Sunday night. Stuff like that.

There was simply no way we'd be able to tell a few hundred residents on old class 4's to fork over another 100/month per region - we would go out of business.

Especially considering shiny new class 5's were coming online at the same rate, and there was no class 5 upgrade path at the time. The new computer smell had hardly faded off the last of the November class 4 hardware we had *just* bought, too.

After the November 06 rush it wasn't all class 5, either. I got one grandfathered class 5 standard, and 4 grandfathered class 5 voids then - but that was luck.

* * * * *

I'll bet we see 195/mo tier for everyone again - just watch and wait. That's how business generally trends. Either that or the US dollar will devalue so much it may as well be 195/month - that may happen even faster.

So the only difference between a class 5 grandfathered sim and a newer one is $100. Assuming that LL don't crank the price up sometime soon.

Another thing.. If i buy one of the grandfathered sims via a full transfer, do I still get the $195 price or does it automatically swap to $295?

It's a grandfathered sim, not a grandfather sim. I'm not trying to be petty, but grandfathered explains why they retain the $195 rate.

They retain the same rate, this is why grandfathered sims hold their value so well, the total cost of ownership is lower.

In the "Thread that Jack Built", in response to worries about tier increasing, he said that tier would not be CHANGING. This would imply to me that they have no plan to lower it either. Considering all the people that LL have been hiring and plan to hire, do you really think there's a way for them to take such a price reduction without operating at a loss?

Oddly enough, I'd say pricing really isn't the Company's decision over the long term. No matter what they plan, they can't predict our desire to pay at any given price point. I'm sure my DSL company didn't say "Let's drop rates to 20-something USD/mo" for the good of mankind. They were forced by the consumer.

Arguably, we are already balking at land tier pricing on the whole; e.g. the land glut and resultant market shakeout amongst private estate land barons.

High prices engender competition very strongly. It's entirely possible that there isn't a way to run a grid inexpensively without cheapening the service, but that's business for you.

GM and Ford, the airlines, CD music sales, darkroom photography - everyone faces tough problems when viable alternatives appear.

* * * * *

Another thought - the high tier makes things such as land barony possible. Why rent if you can get your own server or three? Without the cost barrier for the average resident, everyone can become their own king and country.

Someday I expect that the dollar will devalue enough, or tier will drop low enough, that the age of rental estates and grids will go the way of the dinosaur.

It may be a good little while, though.

who would pay extra for a mostly unused feature

But based on the claim that LL is only "marginally profitable", I would guess that there's no way they can afford a price cut without making up the revenue with higher fees for something else. We know they are hiring more people, and not just people, but skilled technical people in a high cost of living area that will demand to be paid very well. If the market demands a price cut (and will actually leave if they don't get it), and the margins don't allow for a price cut, how does the company continue to survive? What part of the equation am I missing?

They could increase the cost of enterprise services... or maybe the nonprofits, who are getting things at a much lower price than the rest of us.

The part that sees lower pricing increasing overall profits by virtue of attracting more customers.

When they cut island prices they cut the wrong end of the stick.

Openspaces worked because it drastically cut pricing, but a lot of that is redirected money, that's a temporary boom.

There are many ways to skin a cat.

That only works if there's enough margin to cut. If cutting the price means that you lose money, then more customers means more money lost.

Openspaces didn't cut prices for LL at all. They're still the same price per server as full sims. Island initial price cuts are possible because of reduced hardware prices and bulk discounts. Ongoing tier fees have to cover the ongoing costs of keeping LL alive.