Which is worse? A poll without a poll

Which is worse?

=>Folks who use the fact that there is no moderation to use this forum any way they see fit.

=>Folks who try to get those who are using the forum any way they see fit to try to comply to the rules that were at one time enforced here by a moderator.

I think everyone knows where I stand on this issue. In my opinion, general discussion or humorous off topic banter is acceptable but naming names and hurling insults or profanity at others is not.

Good news is, I am keeping my feelings about it to this thread only and have vowed to stop pointing out to others that their name calling (in both forms) is not appreciated. Lord help me keep my vow...

The latter is worse obviously. Unwelcome, inappropriate, unhelpful threads and comments can and should be ignored to sink without trace. People who thrive on reaction will get bored and move elsewhere. People who annoy the crap out of you can be muted or just skipped over. Unless you enjoy being annoyed in which case you're a griefers best friend and part of the problem.

I'm not talking about pointing out an error which the reader thinks might have been made out of ignorance. Or pointing an OP to a better place to get a response. Or pointing out a possible TOS violation in case the OP might want to take the message down, etc.

I'm also not talking about quashing healthy debate or light banter either. Flame wars, mud slinging and a never ending series of storms in teacups is just so... lame.

Neither. The fact that we have no moderator at all is the worst.

I gotta go with the latter as well. It isn't *our* forum - it's LL's. They have clearly decided to loosen the rule structure for reasons not being revealed to us peons. Maybe it is to let things explode and give them a reason to shut RA down, maybe they've just decided to treat RA like the Mainland let us fend for ourselves. It matters not. I don't intend to change my posting style (ok, except for a few explanatives.)

It is what it is and what it is is beyond our control.

Congrats on 100 posts! I think you summed it up in a very astute, convincing and mature way. And I also know that no one can get anyone, especially a troll, to do what you ask so it's pointless. Which is why I'm giving up on trying to get others to comply to the rules of the forum and of common courtesy. Starting now.

This thread sucks already..

You are right. Moderator: Close this thread!

I respect your opinion and do not ask you to change it or your actions.

Man, this is not going to be easy. Thank god football is on today.

I agree that off-topic banter and general discussion are ok. I'm even ok with naming names; If you can't stand behind, defend or apologize for the things you say and do, then don't do them.

However, you're right. Using profanity is wrong, and even though I'm guilty of it too, insults are in poor taste. Everyone should observe the rule of reciprocity "Treat others the way you want to be treated." People say hateful things in anger, or sometimes to make themselves feel better by diminishing others, but that's not something to be celebrated or encouraged.

And even though there's no moderator on this forum for the time being, that's not an excuse. No one is responsible for your actions but yourself. We don't have to be policed by a moderator or our fellow peers if we just police ourselves.

So, to answer your question, both are awfully bad. But if I had to pick, I'd say the first type of person Ray mentioned is worse, but only really really marginally.

I have a slightly different spin, tho certainly agreeing that "how we got here" matters little: I don't think LL has particularly "decided" anything with respect to the forums. Strife left, they assigned a temp employee to moderate while they decide what (if anything) to do, and she has a very very light hand for reasons that we don't know. Although I think she ... or someone ... may be taking occasional quiet action behind the scenes.

(Anybody seen Jumpy lately? Or ... well, no sense going there.)

I do know that there are now active discussions in LL about the forums, tho it is certainly only one set of discussions among many, and who knows whether anything will come of it.

Like Raymond, I am going to hang on tight and not do much in the way of trying to steer anything. I'll just try to not post to threads that seem useless, and answer questions if I can.

.

A wise person once said (paraphrasing) "the only person you can ever control is yourself. Trying to control someone else is like wrestling with a pig: you both get dirty and pig actually enjoys it."

oink

OH, NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!


Couldn't resist, huh Ray? The temptation too great? Ok, get it out your system at least for a few days then. But after this no more, ok?

/shakes head

although i agree with there needig to be some form of moderation in the forums, constantly harping on it is just as annoying. the reason these so called "unacceptable in our holy opinion" thread continue is because they get posted in. if you want the forums to stay around, how about controlling yourselves, and not posting in threads that are obvious troll bait.

I interpreted the question as meaning which is worse for the forum rather then which type of person is worse.

I'd agree that the first type of person is worse - extraordinarily stupid, enjoys being mean/annoying, or just failed to RTFM. In any case ignoring these fools lessens their impact so long as their numbers are outweighed by contributions from people genuinely seeking information or help and those willing and able to give it.

True, but there was still a course of action chosen for whatever reasons. The course may change at a later date - but there has been a choice even if it was to default to limited moderation.

Their choice does indeed allow asshats to expand their repertoire but it doesn't mean that the rest of us have to stoop to communication on that level. The ignore list is your friend.

I promise, I will try not to control others or point out that you are doing the same by constantly trying to control me.

Go Green Bay. :waves:

QFT!

For a while, we can keep our own counsel about threads that are veering toward Chaos.

Ultimately, whatever we do, this thing is gonna go off the rails without some kind of moderation.

One function that thread-locking served was educational--what is and isn't up to the standards of SL's official forums. Not everybody reads the guidelines sticky, and a little guidance to new posters doesn't seem so horribly "annoying" that it should engender a backlash--yet it does. (I'm thinking of a thread where Ray and I both made mention of a long-standing rule--for which the OP thanked us, but then a Different poster found it annoying--for which the OP thanked *him*. Compulsive gratefulness, presumably. )

Anyway, yeah, me too: my cat-herding days are over. But you'll have to take the Goethe quote out of my sig's cold, dead hands.

Control you? Not at all. Not my style.

Green Bay? You seem to be wrong on this one too, Ray.

It was a joke based on your listed location.

If I am ever right in your eyes, please keep it to yourself. Don't want to spoil my perfect record.

I still think it is worth a gentle nudge when a post is extremely out of order, but it also provides an angsty poster with a bump. Difficult to judge.

I'm pleasantly surprised at how well these forums self-regulate.

I think there are a couple of reasons.

First, and foremost, the policy of payment-info-supplied posters only. Cuts down on juvenile and truly malicious posters, because LL knows who they are and can ban them entirely at need. Which it has done from time to time. Makes me think about how much better the SL grid might be if they returned to that practice in-world.

Second, I think SL in general and therefore the forums in particular draw a relatively more mature and intelligent crowd. We get more idiots than we would like here, but it seems a lot less than they get on other forums on other websites.

Third, the mores of these forums. Most people here are relatively civil most of the time, and make an effort to be, even if things do get heated sometimes, and the idiots and bad actors we do get stick out like a sore thumb in this environment. They also tend not to get the effect they want because they are denied cover, and therefore not last long.

Fourth, there is a certain amount of self-enforcement at work here, and so far it does seem to work. The fact that it is now seen as a major gripe that a post with a TOS violation draws an excessive number of posts denouncing the TOS violation says a lot to me about how good we've actually got it here. Maybe we should make an effort to cut down on the overkill, but it definitely falls into the category of lesser evil, IMO.

I think we have a good thing going here: The forums are informative, fun, helpful to a LOT of people - and at least potentially of immense value to LL, which would be foolish indeed to abandon them, considering the value of the feedback they can get from them. Maybe we, being adults (well, mostly), can keep them that way without having to have a net-nanny walking around with a ruler looking for knuckles to rap?

Nice post, Har. And when you point out all the positives, it helps me to see them too.

Your last sentence sounds like a good plan.

/me thinks not to think and just blame Ray



IT`S ALL HIS FAULT!!!!1!1!!111!!!!1!!



gimme a couple of hours on how to make it relevant



/me goes back to work...getting hot here

Talking about me gets you hot?