Use of Scripts from the SL Forums

ok - serious question time. I've been learning to build. Yes, the results have been spectacularly awful, but it's been fun anyway. I'm working on some basic flying vehicles. If I nick scripts out of the script library here in the forums, what are the permissions that go with those? Can I sell something I built that uses that script? Can I give it to a friend with no transfer permissions? I want to credit whomever wrote the scripts, but the creations they are in will be all my work, including the textures.

I'm not just interested in the law - I'd like to know if there is some protocol amongst content creators for this sort of thing.

I should think unless specifically stated otherwise, they would fall under public domain.

I'd ask the people in the scripting forum what they would want you to do with the scripts that they post.

Well considering they've been placed on the scripting forum where anyone can copy and paste them. That's almost the equivalent of making a script full perms.

For the ones I use from there (infrequently, as I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to scripting ) I stick in a comment line:

// this script has been copied from the SL Scripting Forums; the creator is ....

and I make the script full perms unless the creator indicated otherwise (which is never in my limited experience)

Inc

my take on it is that for whatever you build you can do what you like with it even if you use free public domain scripts from the library, as long as you explicitly explain that your selling the build and not the scripts, if the script in your object can't be copy, mod and/or transfer, include a note card saying you used a free script from the library or include a note card version of it full perms.

Personally, if I have a script, and I don't want people using it.. I don't post it.

The stuff I post, is totally free for people to use.

What you keep all the good ones for your self

You are obligated to read the comments at the top of the script ... many posted scripts have usage terms in the text.

If nothing is stated, the script is full perms. The scripting fora have no sticky at the top giving licensing defaults.

What does full perms mean here? If you use the script unmodified:

> You can certainly integrate a full perms script into a product that you sell. In fact, this is done all the time. Some people leave the script with full perms within the product. Others, in order to eliminate the type of support call where an idiot modifies the script and breaks his product, make the script nomodify. In these cases, I have seen creators give the name and maker of the script in the product's notecard, sometimes with a hint as to where to get it.

> The full-perms script is a "freebie", and thus it would be very bad form to resell it on its own or inside of a box of other free scripts. Which I know you would never do anyway, lol.

> Can you give it to a friend notransfer? Yes, certainly. Again, it would be courteous to tell them where they can get the fullperms version.

As soon as you modify the script to change its functionality in any way, it becomes yours, and you could resell the script on its own. Often when scripting, you are cobbling together a bunch of free code in different combinations. Depending on how much your code resembles the original, you may want to credit the original coder, and leave it full perms. I usually just leave the attribution portions of the original script(s) in my header. If you enhance a scripting library script in some useful way that does not clobber an existing commercial type of product, you might consider simply posting the enhancement back to the library, after moderation.
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I assume that any scripts or sections of scripts that I create and post either on the forums or on the wiki are free for anyone to use and redistribute and that's normally my intent by posting them up there. The only measure I take is adding a comment to the top of the scripting section saying pretty much if you use this script or any parts therein please just leave this line in place as a comment that way whether they full perm it or not if they're honorable enough to follow that then at least someone knows of the contribution that I have made.

I have to assume though that some people just remove that line and pass it off as their own.

Thanks - this will be the first thing I've built that needs a script in it, and I was a little confused by the process. I don't even want to try to script anything at this point on my own.

Of course, I would never sell the script on its own or in a freebie box. Selling freebies is about as lame as you can get. Weaksauce. I basically just want to build some airplanes and I need the script to make them fly. I doubt I'll build anything worth selling, but if lightning strikes and I get lucky enough to actually make something good, then I'd like that option. I'd happily credit the script's author, but I don't want to piss anyone off by using a script in a way that they didn't intend. I'll check the notes carefully, and if in doubt, I suppose I could IM the scripter and ask.

Exactly. I was recently asked how to keep 2 prims together without linking them... I went through and explained the "logic" that would allow that to happen.. explaining in rather pedestrian terms, a couple of ways that such at thing could be acheived. I later mentioned that after some stress I had finally worked out the math to do so, and used such a script in my cage. That the math wasn't hard, but it wasn't "snap your fingers" and have a cage..

Someone asked me to post my script.

And I was like.. "uhm, no.. this is a commercial product. Write your own."

There's a line that I draw, between what's free and fair game, and what's "proprietary" data. One of the selling points of my items is the care with which my scripts are written, tested, and thought out. I'm not handing that out for free.

But if you see me posting up a script.. you can use it. I'm a big girl, I understand how the internet works, and I don't publicly post scripts that I don't want people to use.

I do the same. I couldnt script my way out of a Prim Paper Bag!

errrrrr NO! Lets say I took the source code for the SL viewer and added a function to it. that does not make the entire code base mine to do with as i please! LL would have my head.

I was teasing

Whatever type of Aircraft you are making, Trout. Please don't be your own test pilot.

I'll do it. I tweak the nose of fear.

Maybe the confusion here is about whether ethics or legality is at stake. If the scripts in question are public domain (which was the premise), then it's perfectly legal to sell them as-is, without any changed or added functionality. It would just be an ethically loathsome thing to do.

The SL viewer, while open source, is emphatically *not* public domain, so LL would have the legal tools with which to detach the head of anybody trying to sell it or unlicensed derivative works.

ok - mixed messages in this thread. So, if I make an airplane and stick a script in it that I pull off of the SL Scripts Library here in the forums, then I'm doing something legal, but ethically loathesome? I seldom worry about legality, because I've found that if I do my best to always act in an ethical and honest way, then I don't break any laws. I'm much more concerned about being accidentally unethical here.

Can you clarify, Qie?

Brenda and Max - Being my own test pilot is part of the joy of building the thing, but I'll gladly give both of you copies of whatever I make so you can give me feedback. If you survive...

The "Scripting Library " forum does?

Neither illegally nor ethically questionable. Qie was specifically referring to selling the script as-is (i.e. just the script), not to selling objects built with the script.

Let me add some more food for thought. Suppose someone puts together a significant collection of useful scripts, each of which individually is public domain. I see nothing either illegal or unethical for choosing to sell that collection at a price that reflects only the effort of putting together the collection, and in a manner that makes it clear that the contents are public domain, and that the seller isn't the author.

Back before downloading from the internet became widely available, it was considered perfectly proper to sell CDs with GNU Emacs and other open source - as long as the source code was made available the same way, and as long as the charge for the CD was based on the production costs, not the value of the software. I believe that selling a script collection in SL is the legal and ethical equivalent. (And no, I've never done this in SL and have no plans to do so, but I once worked for a company that sold open source CDs this way.)

Public domain scripts are just that, owned by the public. And you as a member of the public can do anything you want to with them. Though it is always good karma to give credit where credit is due. And trying to claim them as your own work is still fraudulent. The implicit assumption is that anything posted to the script library, unless otherwise stated, is being put in the public domain.

But many scripts in the library do have some rights reserved. Which can be anything from 'send me an email if you use this script' to a full blown open source license. So you have to check for how it is licensed and follow its restrictions. Generally, you can use them non-commercially without restriction and for most commercial uses by acknowledging the original author and providing a link back to the source of the script.

QFT

Right, and thanks for the clarification about selling stuff *using* PD scripts vs selling the scripts themselves: big distinction there.

It does rather pain me to see PD scripts sold for big L$s in some places--some even hiding the source itself. But certainly a collection of PD scripts with full source represents a real service to script buyers and there's nothing wrong with getting compensated for the effort of gathering them up and making them available in-world.

Specific to Trout's question, the dirty little secret of vehicle scripts is that all the really hard physics stuff is done in the functions that are called, not the script that calls them. It kinda has to be that way (especially pre-Mono) because LSL is so terribly slow compared to in-world physics that to make vehicles at all compelling, the complicated stuff is all done behind the scenes, not in the script. That's not to say that vehicle scripts can't be complicated nor that they can't ever be worth getting paid for, but really most of the cleverness of the most clever vehicles is in parts of the scripting that have nothing to do with making the damned thing go. And, as you've discovered, a perfectly reasonable approximation of planes, cars, boats, sleds, etc. can be achieved with a plywood box, an off-the-shelf public script, and some parameter tweaking.

Thanks, Kitty, I completely missed that statement buried in the moderator's post! Silly me, I expected the Linden's statement at the start of the thread to give the policy for the library! Language, though, is important here -- to me, "public use" is more vague than "public domain". Which is fortunate, since many of the scripts in the library are not public domain, but have licensing terms in the text.<- what he said! There is a big difference between public domain scripts and the license agreement that you must comply with in using LL's open source client. The scripting library is more closely akin to the many PERL script download sites on the net, where a default license is specified by the site, which can be superceded by a license statement in the script.

So, just to be totally clear Trout, taking a public domain script from here and using it in a vehicle that you sell is not only totally legal, it is the expected usage, and ethically pure as the driven snow, so long as you give credit (as it is clear you intend to).
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