What is a fair rental price and covenant?
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Eva Tiramisu
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
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06-03-2009 16:39
When "I" bought a sim a couple of years back there was five of us sharing the tier costs, joy and responsibilties. Now,due to RL- commitments, there is only two of us left (pluss one having an attached homestead). While all the orginal coowners still have home set to personal parcels in the sim, they rarely log on and hence dont need their own home. While we are both happy with our lag-free sim, it also feels kind of empty since we only use about 40% of the land. So lately we have discussed getting renters. We would prefer long-time renters that would after a month or two get estate rights, and pref someone that would rent a large portion. Since we within the portion of the sim/prims we use have some income, we arent really looking to make money on this. We would like a contribution to the tier, sure, but mainly we would like someone to use the land. And maybe to become a co-owner in the long run. Also, we arent really that interested in traffic. Our games/common area does fine, we dont want a mall or a superhot designer to rent. With these parameters, what are your advice? What should I put in the covenant? (Sure you can have a buisiness, as long as it small and you dont have customers  ). What should I charge? I dont want to rip people of nor do I want to underbid the general market. What kind of questions should I ask a potential renter to ensure he or she is on the same page as us? Any advices? Also if you dont want to reveal your secrets to the perfect renter on the forums, I am happy to respond to PMs or IMs. |
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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06-03-2009 17:50
Alas there are no easy answers here. The covenant, think hard about what you want and what you don't want, you might even want to go to a few islands and check their covenants, avoid plaigirism obviously but you'll get a good overview.
Price, again it's really upto you. How many prims are you offering, what kind of parcels do you have, what's the landscaping like. There's no right or wrong price, well within reason obviously.
One question you might want to ask is what the tenant can bring to your sim.
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Master Quatro
Angelic Dreams Estates
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 35
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06-03-2009 18:04
The last thing you want are people that are attracted by the low rent and will build the ugliest site. Rent to friends and acquaintances .. my advice ..
MQ
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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06-03-2009 21:27
set aside an hour for the purpose of looking for land to rent. after that hour is over you will have a good idea of what the rental market looks like.
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VonGklugelstein Alter
Bedah Profeshinal Tekstur
Join date: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 808
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06-03-2009 21:33
From: Master Quatro The last thing you want are people that are attracted by the low rent and will build the ugliest site. Rent to friends and acquaintances .. my advice ..
MQ Are you equating people looking to not getting ripped off by a scam artist to them having pisspoor taste or being poor hacks? True, it is much easier to rip off those closest to you. |
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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06-03-2009 21:50
i dont think that is what he meant  i read it as 'it is better to offer cheap rent to your mates than to offer cheap rent to the general public'
_____________________
SLU - ban em then bash em!
~~GREATEST HITS~~
pro-life? gtfo! slu- banning opposing opinions one at a time
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/zomgwtfbbqgtfololcats/15428-disingenuous.html
learn to shut up and nod in agreement... or be banned!
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/off-topic/1239-americans-not-stupid.html
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VonGklugelstein Alter
Bedah Profeshinal Tekstur
Join date: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 808
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06-04-2009 04:14
From: Nina Stepford i dont think that is what he meant i read it as 'it is better to offer cheap rent to your mates than to offer cheap rent to the general public' haha I read things in different ways ..sometimes on purpose |
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Eva Tiramisu
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
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06-04-2009 04:52
From: Nina Stepford set aside an hour for the purpose of looking for land to rent. after that hour is over you will have a good idea of what the rental market looks like. Good advice Nina, thanks! I will do that. I am also pretty sure Master Quatro meant that friends would be better renters for someone in my position. |
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Wrenfair Blessed
Registered User
Join date: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 76
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06-04-2009 08:44
Well 1.33 L per prim, per week, will cover tier cost for the proportionate section you are renting out, if you pay no VAT and if you limit sell on SL Exchange for 260L/$1.00. Most sim owners obviously charge more than this, for profit, recouping purchase price and their time as a landlord dealing with issues. If you just hand them a chunk of land with terraforming rights and such allowed on island and say do what you want, can charge lower end. If offering services involved on your part, such landscaping for them, watching for griefers, providing a house and being on call for problems, I would charge on higher end.
As far as your covenant, it really depends if you want yours to be the only business, expect them to follow a certain design to fit in, etc. If not an planning to be an Adult sim, you will have to spell out the new rules for them, as most people don't seem to read the blogs and you will be the one in trouble with SL should they advertise adult content.
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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06-04-2009 08:57
Fair is the highest price that the market will bear.
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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06-04-2009 09:06
From: Chris Norse Fair is the highest price that the market will bear. I would say, "Fair is whatever two informed parties agree to." |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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06-04-2009 09:21
From: Wrenfair Blessed Well 1.33 L per prim, per week, will cover tier cost for the proportionate section you are renting out, if you pay no VAT and if you limit sell on SL Exchange for 260L/$1.00. Most sim owners obviously charge more than this, for profit, recouping purchase price and their time as a landlord dealing with issues. If you just hand them a chunk of land with terraforming rights and such allowed on island and say do what you want, can charge lower end. Useful figure to know, but even with no services, I suspect this would be well below market rates. For example, if I did my math right, this comes out to about 5K per month for a 4K plot. When I was looking a few months ago, the lowest rates I saw (admittedly for commercial land) were in the mid L$6k's per month, for a 4k plot, and they all had hideous neighboring plots. (Why people put ugly warehouse-style buildings on the ground is a mystery to me, unless the area is going for the urban decay motif, which these were not. Why not nice greenspace on the ground, with those big box buildings in the sky? Oh well.) My suggestion. Don't go bargain basement prices, and promote a community aspect, along with the appearance you want to preserve. If someone's a good tenant, you can always lower the rent for them later! Next, I feel it was silly the way private island landlords would charge a large "sales" price. Well, not that they'd do it, but that people would pay it, because it's really just rental and you can be evicted for no reason with no notice and you have no recourse. However, I do feel it's reasonable to ask for a bit of a commitment up front (say, an extra month's rent, usable to pay your final month's rent). This ensures a bit more commitment on the part of the tenant. |
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Eva Tiramisu
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
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06-04-2009 10:10
Thanks for the imputs so far. I suppose I would be on the very low end of renting scale, basically I just want someone to use the land and cover some of the costs. However finding the right tenant(s) would be more important for me than how much they would pay. I will take Ninas advice and look at what others offer, esp their covenants. I also completely agree with you Lear, I dont understand why someone would pay a "sales"-sum for a rental plot. I suppose I could set it for "sale" and the sales price would be a deposit or something to cover rent for the next week or month like you are suggesting. For the time being I am not interested in selling the land, i am just concidering renting it out. However should we get along great over the next few months, I would be happy to make them co-owners in the long run if they wanted that. Thanks again to everyone that took time to respond  |
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Wrenfair Blessed
Registered User
Join date: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 76
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06-04-2009 12:33
Eva, the "sale" of the land is to give them control as an owner of that parcel. You never have to give them estate rights, if you mean as an estate manager, as I presume your partners were.
Lear - I was just giving her a base cost, since it seemed she was more interested in seeing the land used and not making a profit.
We set the land for sale for 4 weeks rent up front at Cocan Rois Estates.
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Treasure Ballinger
Virtual Ability
Join date: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,745
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06-04-2009 12:37
From: Wrenfair Blessed Eva, the "sale" of the land is to give them control as an owner of that parcel. You never have to give them estate rights, if you mean as an estate manager, as I presume your partners were.
Lear - I was just giving her a base cost, since it seemed she was more interested in seeing the land used and not making a profit.
We set the land for sale for 4 weeks rent up front at Cocan Rois Estates. Thanks, this is at least somewhat clearer than my attempts have been, when people start saying that estate parcels are just rental parcels. When you purchase an estate parcel you don't have to be part of a group wearing a group tag to work your parcel, you are the parcel owner, shown on 'about land' and you have owners rights on your parcel which is different from rentals. |
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Eva Tiramisu
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
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06-04-2009 13:22
From: Wrenfair Blessed Eva, the "sale" of the land is to give them control as an owner of that parcel. You never have to give them estate rights, if you mean as an estate manager, as I presume your partners were.
Yes I understand that part  What I dont understand is peoples willingness to pay loads of unrefundable money for the right to rent (but that is a different discussion). I would of course "sell" them the land so they would have access to all the landownertools. And once I get to know and trust someone, I wouldnt have a problem with giving them estate rights as well should they need it for some reason. But yes, of course even renters should have access to landownertools to their parcel. Its their home after all. |
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-04-2009 13:30
From: Master Quatro The last thing you want are people that are attracted by the low rent and will build the ugliest site. Rent to friends and acquaintances .. my advice ..
MQ Ugliest site? You are talking about taste and different taste. Your view and your taste is not always the best. So you advice is only your advice you can keep for free If you ask me So Angelic Dreams keeps the rent high to get rid of ugly buildings *lmao High rents = High Style? I need to start laughing but I am lazy! I see your profile tells .... you don't have competition?? Is that right? Thank YOU - no further questions! |
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-04-2009 14:17
From: Eva Tiramisu Yes I understand that part What I dont understand is peoples willingness to pay loads of unrefundable money for the right to rent (but that is a different discussion). I would of course "sell" them the land so they would have access to all the landownertools. And once I get to know and trust someone, I wouldnt have a problem with giving them estate rights as well should they need it for some reason. But yes, of course even renters should have access to landownertools to their parcel. Its their home after all. I think you are very nice person, you ask very nicely and you have been around in SL for long time. You don't have to wait long time until you find someone who matches with your perfectly as a renter - good luck! |
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Eva Tiramisu
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
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06-04-2009 15:16
From: Ava Velde I think you are very nice person, you ask very nicely and you have been around in SL for long time. You don't have to wait long time until you find someone who matches with your perfectly as a renter - good luck! Aww thank you Ava That was nice of you! |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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06-05-2009 06:49
From: Ava Velde From: Master Quatro
The last thing you want are people that are attracted by the low rent and will build the ugliest site. Rent to friends and acquaintances .. my advice ..
MQ
Ugliest site? You are talking about taste and different taste. Your view and your taste is not always the best. So you advice is only your advice you can keep for free If you ask me So Angelic Dreams keeps the rent high to get rid of ugly buildings *lmao High rents = High Style? I need to start laughing but I am lazy! Laugh or not all you want, but Master's advice is good advice: your odds are worse with lower rent, and better with someone you know. People who invest more have more at stake and tend to put more effort into making their site look good. This is true in RL as well (more so, actually, for practical reasons: you can make a very good looking SL place using free resources. That's much harder to do in RL.) However, higher rent is certainly no guarantee, and no defense against differing taste. |
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-05-2009 07:26
From: Lear Cale
People who invest more have more at stake and tend to put more effort into making their site look good. This is true in RL as well (more so, actually, for practical reasons: you can make a very good looking SL place using free resources. That's much harder to do in RL.)
However, higher rent is certainly no guarantee, and no defense against differing taste.
WOWOW!!!!!! People need to read this! So all you need are a lots of Lindens and you are ready to invest in: *high-level-skills *hours/weeks/month of time, *their full heart *brilliant taste *breathtaking emotions *sell-earned experiences and respect within the community *colorful creativity *brightness, contrast, ideas, and much more I do can show you rich peoples in SL who own more than 100 SIMs and have built something YOU, ME and many people would NOT name as beautiful nor tasteful. So a person who wants to give advises, especially if they think they are the very best, should think twice before hitting the enter button. If there is a Master of everything and someone thinks she/he owns the this world with cash - THIS game/world and its creative members who do not think about the value of money are ready to teach new ways. |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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06-05-2009 07:32
Ava, nothing in your post contradicts what I said.
You're certainly right that Master's advice is no guarantee. It just improves the odds.
The things you list above are far more important than a budget. No argument! But you didn't simply say that there are more important things, you ridiculed Master for his advice (including ad-hominem attacks, which are bad rhetoric). Your ridicule was unfounded, even though your reasons for questioning it are perfectly valid.
But you're certainly right that beauty is a matter of taste, and many factors are far more important than budget for making a tasteful bulid.
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-05-2009 15:05
From: Master Quatro
The last thing you want are people that are attracted by the low rent and will build the ugliest site. Rent to friends and acquaintances .. my advice ..
From: Lear Cale Ava, nothing in your post contradicts what I said.
You're certainly right that Master's advice is no guarantee. It just improves the odds.
Just improves the odds? Why do people who are attracted by a low rent cause odds or ugly building style???? So, the last thing you want are university students, collage students, poor and normal people and all those who just don't want to spend a lot of cash but willing to invest everything else. Just make an "argument" out of your statement - just for the rhetoric - so everybody can "understand". If YOU want to speak up for Master go ahead. I check back tomorrow. |
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Eva Tiramisu
Registered User
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 176
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06-05-2009 16:06
While there is no solid correlation between low rent and ugly builds, I think it is true that there is a one weak between how much you pay and how much you invest. If you pay next to nothing, it doesnt cost you to let it go or not use it? If you paid heaps, then maybe you want to make sure your investment is worth it? Way back when first land was still avaible for 1L per square meter, there was plenty that never did much but rezz a cube or two, maybe leave some unsorted inventory etc? There was so many junk-lands (by this i dont mean attemps to build that didnt meet my standards or aesticts, we all know how that can wary, but just randomly rezzed objects and plywood cubes). I guess I can see where Master and Lear is coming from. Often people will not care as much about things they get cheap. But there is a big however! If you dont have the funds, but then get something cheap or free, you might blossom and do the things you always wanted. That resident could do far more interesting things than someone that just buys an expencive house that have sold 50.000 copies in SL so far. And then there is all in between .... But I can see why Masters advice makes sense. Rent to friends, and dont let someone with poor taste and no commitment take advantage of you. That said, if I decide to go for renting out, I would still do it cheaply because I want others to have that same chance I have had. There is nothing to make make your creative juices flowing like the smell of fresh land And even if you arent creative, its good to have somewhere to call home, no matter the size of your pocketbook. (Does the last comment show I am Scandinavian? ) |
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-05-2009 16:27
From: Eva Tiramisu While there is no solid correlation between low rent and ugly builds, I think it is true that there is a one weak between how much you pay and how much you invest. If you pay next to nothing, it doesnt cost you to let it go or not use it? If you paid heaps, then maybe you want to make sure your investment is worth it? Way back when first land was still avaible for 1L per square meter, there was plenty that never did much but rezz a cube or two, maybe leave some unsorted inventory etc? There was so many junk-lands (by this i dont mean attemps to build that didnt meet my standards or aesticts, we all know how that can wary, but just randomly rezzed objects and plywood cubes). I guess I can see where Master and Lear is coming from. Often people will not care as much about things they get cheap. But there is a big however! If you dont have the funds, but then get something cheap or free, you might blossom and do the things you always wanted. That resident could do far more interesting things than someone that just buys an expencive house that have sold 50.000 copies in SL so far. And then there is all in between .... But I can see why Masters advice makes sense. Rent to friends, and dont let someone with poor taste and no commitment take advantage of you. That said, if I decide to go for renting out, I would still do it cheaply because I want others to have that same chance I have had. There is nothing to make make your creative juices flowing like the smell of fresh land And even if you arent creative, its good to have somewhere to call home, no matter the size of your pocketbook. (Does the last comment show I am Scandinavian? ) With the way you are here you will not have any troubles to get the most creative talented friends who will stay with you as long as you want them You don't need advices Once I rented out SIM place too quickly just posting on SLX while the forum postings didn't work at all. Good luck! |
