May I invite people I don't know to join my group?

I agree that any racist comments should be ARed, what ever the method of delivery. But let's also appreciate that the method of delivery of less inflammatory material does make a difference.

There's a big difference between overhearing what someone has to say in the street and them calling you up on the phone to tell you.

There is a big difference between walking past a billboard and having a flyer plastered to your face.

W00T

...I hate when I log in in the morning and I have THAT, on top of my regular 10+ IMs from Groups (my button toggle feature to turn off Notices from Group is "broken" >:/

You were doing fine until you made the comment

"Seems that in SL, "spam" is more reprehensible than racism and xenophobia.. what an interesting world we've created for ourselves."

which in my view turned your argument into generalisation designed to make you look like a smartarse - go on, admit it.

Both activities are reprehensible and wrong - and therefore worthy of an AR. However, there are shorter term solutions for dealing with the loudmouthed bigot as discussed in that thread - but you don't know when you're about to receive yet another annoying, pointless group invite.

I glossed over the blatant devil's advocacy at the end of your previous post.

This is different, Stephen, because the goal here is to get customers, not to provoke potential customers into muting me and never returning to my establishment. I may have the right to spam anyone I choose with group invitations - in fact as I said above I personally do not AR people who do this - but I don't think that's a very effective way of increasing attendance at my cafe events, and I don't think it will work very well for the original poster either.

Hi Hiro

I'm not sure there is.. I guess the act of slapping the flyer in someone's face might be counted as battery in the UK.. but if it were handed to you.. I don't think there is a difference.

In fact some might say that the direct 1-2-1 approach is better, because in RL the act of communicating with a group or crowd might have more ability to incite.

What with another current thread on this board being about how to protect your property from the "poor", our moral outrage over unsolicited mail, and our tacit acceptance of racism..

When did SL become so "conservative".. with a small "c"..?

You're using a strawman argument, Stephen; It's a no-brainer that racist remarks, even in open chat, are offensive and should be ARed - speak for yourself on the 'our' comment. This thread is not questioning the content of the message, it's questioning the method of delivery.

I don't see handing me a flyer as an analogy. If someone goes to hand me a flyer on the street I don't have to accept it. Sending unsolicited group invites is more like forcing a flyer into my hand, and if someone did that to me, they would be sure to get a piece of my mind, too!

There is an easy solution to this: LL need to give us the option of being able to toggle on/off accepting group invites.

Ahhh.. but one person's "Strawman" may be another's excellent analogy..

The flyer thing is interesting though, and you're right about the ability in RL to say yes please or walk past quickly with your hands in your pockets.

I've often thought that an opt-in advertising system would be an excellent way for both SL and individual citizens to generate revenue.

Let's say unsolicited communications were against ToS and AR'able. Individual citizen's could sign up to allow ads to arrive via notecard and/or group invites.

For this they might receive a discount on membership or a penny for every communication they recieve (free account holders would be forced to receive marketing).. and SL would charge businesses for access to this new marketing channel.

It's not a bad idea, but I doubt many would sign up. Perhaps advertising could be aimed at non-premium members, but that's bound to upset basic users who feel they are contributing via an estate baron.

Still, this is a different issue really - there already exists much better ways of marketing a product than sending unsolicited group invites. The question of it being spam aside, I really can't see sending out these invites as being a successful strategy for a business.

I wouldn't think that clicking "decline" on an unsolicited group invite is that much harder than saying "no thank you" to someone offering you a flyer on the street. I think the analogy is apt; so I guess we disagree on that. But then, I am stunned that someone irritated by a single unsolicited group invitation would actually take the time to AR, mute, and possibly even send a nasty IM in response. I've long since forgotten any supposed intrusion in the time it would take me to do all that.

I'm sorry that two issues have been conflated here - the issue of what freedoms people have to send invitations, to decline them, and to mute and AR the senders is one thing; the issue of whether sending unsolicited invites is considerate or a good business practice is quite separate.

It seems pretty obvious to me that as long as some people feel very strongly that it's an offense and even an ARable intrusion, it can't possibly be a good business practice.

/me pre-emptively mutes the OP

P2

If only it was a single unsolicited invite, Madhu. For some reason I get more invites on my alts than my main, but as soon as I log in, I have to decline 10-20 invites! It will only get worse as the population grows.

We will have to disagree on the analogy. Before I even have the chance to click 'decline', I am faced with messages that go something like:

JOIN THIS GRP FOR BEST SEXORZ IN SL.

If the person handing the flyer stuffed it in front of my face before my having to say 'No thank you', then I would agree with you.

The point is, it is a violation of the ToS to do this. And, it is happening more and more frequently. I get three or four of these a week now when it used to be one or two a month if that much.

Madhu, I have read your posts on how you go about sending invitations for your cafe and I think your method is perfectly fine.

When I receive one of these, the first thing I do is look up the sender's profile to see if, perhaps, I may have had some contact with them or their establishment. If so, then I simply decline since I already have 25 groups. But it I have just been selected, for no other reason than my AV name was picked from some list then, I absolutely AR and mute.

After Kathy's post, I also reread your first post Madhu. I have no problems receiving invites under the circumstances you have described; it's the completely random invites I am referring to.

This doesn't happen to me; I get the occasional unsolicited invite maybe once every couple of weeks or so. So that might explain why I don't consider it such an intrusion; I just decline and go on my merry way, no need to AR or mute someone I don't expect to hear from again anyhow.

And I'm happy to agree to disagree, especially since we seem to be experiencing very different levels of pestering from these things. Are the invites all for different groups or the same group? (That's just a matter of curiosity, not trying to create a new argument out of it.)

And to both you and Kathy, thanks for the votes of confidence in my methods. I do get a little nervous when I read threads like this - I really don't want to annoy people, even if they were never planning to come back in the first place!

It's all different kinds of groups, and each invite is from a different person. I suppose it's possible that it's just a few people using many alts to send out all these invites, but certainly each invite comes from a different avatar - and the no. of invites I receive varies between my alts.

Of these people who tell you they're muting you, banning you or whatever like here in these forums, the best part is they can't respond when you tell them something later on for fear of letting you know they've read what you wrote. Must really eat them up at times.

While some may in fact go thru' with it, from my experience I know many times they don't. Many times curiosity won't let them do it. This is why this clown, this delicate little flower has responded to my comments many times although he had already made it clear many times before then that he was going to mute me or had done so already. Not only him but it also happened with another.

They just love letting everyone else know they're going to mute you. But all they're doing is letting everyone know you've gotten to him, they can't handle it. They like dishing it out but can't take it themselves. And its not about anything serious or any foul language other then just talking back and forth.

When you're going to do it, just do it, don't talk about it. Usually, the ones who talk don't do anything.

Hi Ricardo,

I don't think I've ever threatened to mute you.. or anyone for that matter.. have I..?

I do get the feeling though that I'm a bit persona non grata on the boards at the moment, and certainly muted by some ..

Oh well.. it's often the case that prophets are ridiculed in their own time..

Second Life is not a government entity, so US Consitutional Protections on free speech do not apply. Regardless of any perceived right to free speech, a TOS/CS violation is just that, and sanctions may be imposed if reported and followed up by Linden Lab.



There is no difference, except that they are different Community Standards violations. One is "Intolerance", and the other is "Spam".



Whether something 'deserves' to be AR'd or Muted is a subjective decision. So to answer your question, whether to report depends upon your personal morals. Once they are reported, however... both are indeed violations of the Community Standards

For what it's worth, from Terms of Service, section 4.1, third paragraph

It seems to me that a group invite can certainly be a form of advertising and is surely a form of solicitation. That it's not for profit is irrelevant. In this case, it's unsolicited. And from the reaction of other people, I believe that it's spam, notwithstanding the vague meaning of that term.

You could just send the people you meet a private IM asking them if they would like to join your club. It is a lot of work I know because I have done it before. It will gradually increase your membership and you won't piss anyone off normally.

At that point, I'm no longer a complete stranger, I'm a customer, so I find a product group invite perfectly acceptable.

The 25 limit makes groups very precious, too.

No, sir.

But then again you're not some little sissy who goes around AR'ing everyone in sight unless it's one of his merry men or should I correct myself and say the forums little girlie man who feels bullied and feels the need to respond with cries of "I'm banning/muting you'' every other day.

As for being muted, call it an honor. Helps seperate and categorize certain indiviuals.

I've read you loud and clear in your recent postings. Keep them coming.