what determines if it is good clothing, or great shoes?

I just laid down 1200L for a formal gown. I wass able to try it on. For that amount of linden I expect to be able to labor over the decision to buy.

I love the idea of clothing demos. Short of that, if they have a freebie I judge the potential of the clothes based on that. Seams lining up is pretty important to me now, and some attempt at shading and highlighting to make the clothes look more multi-dimensional. Prim skirts are always mod, and I prefer they are copiable too because sometime I really goof them up with too much tinkering.

For shoes and jewelry - no bling. I generally won't buy things that offer the option of bling off in the script bc/ I don't like to reset it and I hate knowing there is a script in there that could be poorly written.

For shoes - do they make some attempt to make both the shoe and the visible foot shape look good. My favorites are very careful to use only as much invisiprim as is required. The look of the most amazing shoe can be really wrecked by a giant invisiprim block clomping under the heel.

Thank you all for posting, very informative thread

I too dislike the no fly zone stores with high ceilings, just plain silly to make it no fly

bling drives me nuts LOL

seams yep a must, I labor over seams when making my clothing

(been thinking of offering the demo clothing as well, but not sure what would be the most prim efficient way to do it)
prims are definitely the commodity in SL hehe

cherry I had the weirdest dream last night, I was making that stuff for you and it was coming out perfect, then I woke up and do not remember how I did it LOL (I am going to attempt it after the holidays)
the weird part is I was in SL, with my RL self, like really in there

so weird

and yes shameless self plug here, please take a look at my store, and tell me what I am doing wrong? I get some visitors (put up a visitor counter) but very little sales, would love to know what might help ppl when they are there
maybe suggestions of how to set it up better, or better arrangements, anything that might help.

Thanks in advance

(if you do not feel comfortable saying something in this thread, feel free to im, pm or drop a notecard on me with comments, suggestions, and criticism

great info! now i know i should have 2 sets of jewelry at my store. one with bling and without bling.

Clacky heels are the new bling. *shudder*

Oh yeah. Those make me nuts.

For me, 'good' = someone put thought and time into the design and execution.
I love the things I've collected because of the attention to detail.

From the beautiful, to the quirky (I have a freebie shoulder sockmonkey that makes me smile everytime I look at it), when you can look at a piece and tell that someone enjoyed making every little pixel of it, that's quality.

Good clothing and shoes is a very subjective thing, really, it depends on your personal style, your sense of aesthetics and your level of pickiness about textures and prims. There are basically two types of clothing in SL, photorealistic and handdrawn, and some designers do a mix of those two. It's especially strange to see someone in a very photoreal skin wearing obviously hand-drawn clothing, like someone painted clothing on them rather than that they put on clothing. Ditto on the vice versa, like someone put real clothes on a painted paperdoll. Continuity in photorealism and hand drawn is a very Good Thing™

Look for the amount of work a designer has put into it. Are the textures aligned properly (not stretching across your butt or bust or hips) or matching between the front of the item and the back in the case of very busy prints or plaids. Is the shading appropriate and realistic? For instance, is there an obvious light source on the outfit, or do you see shadows or highlights where shadows or highlights shouldn't exist? Do you have to do a lot of adjusting to get the right fit, and if so, is the item modifiable at all?

You can usually check the permissions of an item before you buy (Often I won't buy unless I can see the permissions first), and the most helpful designers will put the item permissions on their posters or vendors to let you know. Don't trust prices, as some of the best designers in SL have incredibly low prices for much of their stuff, while some of the not-so-great designers will have exorbitant prices for shite.

Shop around to find what you like, then decide which is the best of the stuff you like, and support those designers. Some of my favorite designers have gone out of business in the 2 years I've been here, and I deeply regret that my dollars didn't stretch to their stores more often or enough to keep them around

I'm just piggy-backing here but of course the seams are very important.

What I especially look for is richness and realism in the texture. I love sweaters that look so real and soft you can almost feel it. I have a 'suede' jacket that looks amazing - and not from a major designer. You can find some of the best stuff in little obscure shops.

Funny thing, I never really liked hand drawn clothing - or so I thought - until I discovered Pixel Dolls. I am a convert now. Some beautiful things there, and quite different. And the freebies are very high quality - as freebies should be in my opinion.

Bling: Hate it in anything - but especially shoes! Ick.

Hair: I like really natural, soft looking movement and colors that are rich and realistic.

Also, no one has mentioned jewelry yet, but it is very easy to tell the difference between merticulously crafted jewelry and prims that are just slapped together. All you have to do is zoom in and look at the details up close.

I prefer classic styles that allow my Avi to maintain her dignity while also looking pretty and somewhat sexy. I don't do thigh highs and skirts that show my pixelated bum, etc. But that's just me, not saying those things are bad.

I'm glad to see it's not just me being fussy as some guy friends say! Ok, bling, heel noises or ao's in shoes I loathe. I wear an AO as do most of sl so WHY are they in shoes??? I have no idea why we need bling & the heels sound makes me want to commit murder, it's up there with tummy talkers, like nails on a blackboard, I leave a place if someones wearing them

Skirts I will never buy if not prim or if they have shorts under, I wouldn't wear shorts under rl & son't want to here it ain't attractive lol & supposedly nobodys looking but I know. I also hate dresses or skirts if the skirt doesn't come to the waist & shows the shorts under, I don't wear them but I hate the look. I don't make skirts or any clothes so i'm sure there's a reason they need shorts, but all of mine don't need them so some people obviously can make them just fine, maybe a designer can explain to me?

Stuff has to be mod & trans. My av is tiny & alot is too big round the waist, if I wear boots I like the trousers under them & some of my skirts are low waisted so the thongs show above else. Transfer is essential, I swapped account once & was gutted my fave outfit wouldn't transfer & couldn't be bought anywhere, luckily all of the rest transferred & all my clothes seem to be, but it's a shame to not be able to give stuff i'll never wear to those who will

Skirts have to be prim, I don't need a huge ass in sl it doesn't go right for my shape, I do like more curvy avs than my own but i'm me now & changing me wouldn't feel right, so being so small huge asses don't work.

That's it for now I think!

Me too--even though I'm male, and I generally hate sculpties. If these things are (eventually?) marketed as simple mod-perm "feet" that I can merge with my own prim sandals, it's a sure sale. They've just got to be better than even the best skin-textured "toes" painted on the avatar mesh flippers we all call "feet."

beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

These are my initial impressions:
I went to your store from the slurl in your sig and was dropped in this large brick-lined space, facing a room where all I could see were lots of "coming soon" signs. I turned round and was staring at a lot of brick wall. Your clothes are "hidden" around the corner to the left and in small rooms off the main space, i.e. they're not that easy to find

I was a bit disturbed by the large "scanner" sitting on the floor showing my name.

When I found your clothes, they look fine but they lack "identity" IMO. Your posters are plain, clear and straightforward but carry no text at all (I only discovered by chance that not everyone has mouseover text enabled).

Overall, my impression is that you're selling a big mix of things plus you have an arcade and it all looks the same. I wasn't "tempted" at all (and believe me, I'm very easily tempted lol), I just felt a bit "blah" about the whole thing.

I hope that's helpful, it was intended to be constructive rather than critical

not sure what you mean by not informative...
they have pics, I kept my ads to a theme so you are not blasted with a hodgepodge of stuff (you did go into the store, I am not refering to the stuff on the outside wall, those are yardsale items)

I also got a very indepth card from someone in game, about my store.

I have a lot of thinking to do.

as for the teleport from landmark, I am not sure how to make it drop you looking in another direction...

the scanner thing was me messing with scripts when SL crashed and I was unable to remove it afterwards


I love my stores (I dunno why but I do) but sadly I think if I want it to be a store that ppl will come to and shop, I need to rethink the design

same with the arcade, I am having a month long event, but if ppl are not even walking through the door, not much sense in having the event.

hmmmm....


I had some nice suggestions for the courtyard I will be trying out

(the coming soon ones is my Real Life Store, set up in SL, not the one I was talking about)

I guess because I built it, I tend to know where it is, and do not see it from the eye of someone seeing it for the first time

I need to step out of RL, and into SL and think... SL style I guess

*sigh*

makes me feel like crying because I feel like I failed big time

Thanks much for the input, I really do appreciate it, even though it stings a little (and confuses me on some aspects)

again ty

sorry for totem posting

just wanted to say, to those who took the time to look and give me some feedback and to those who looked but said nothing (hehe)

I redid it, still need to figure out how I wish to arrange things inside, but I would love for you to go back, have a look (at both the store and arcade as I redid the area)
and send me your feedback so I can see if I am on the right track

here is the new URL (going to update sig too and picks)

Thank you again, I think I am getting inspired again

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Jeogori/175/130/96

Considering the intense hatred of bling, and the general - if not quite as intense - dislike of 8 inch spike heels displayed in this thread, I am a little surprised at how hard it is to find anything but that when looking for shoes and boots. -Somebody must like it and buy it.
I spent forever finding a good-looking pair of hiking boots (not 20 lbs cyber-steel boots).
Mind you, I do not object to a pair of sexy boots, but finding some with a reasonable heel is a discovery worth sharing with your friends, and something I make sure I IM the creator and commend on, hoping to encourage more of that style.

Bling immediately disqualifies any object, and I have IM’ed creators asking for non-AO, non-sound versions of boots I really like (and have so far every time gotten a replacement part. Big thumbs up for that).
Also, I will not use objects which speak out in public, or require me to use command words in open chat.

Good clothes for me are usually a matter of hitting the right balance in the texture work; detailed, realistically shaded and creased, yet not so detailed as to look “busy” and overdone. As much as I love BareRose for the great (and mixable) designs, some of their textures are just too overdone, for example.
So I guess my general preferences lean towards the realistic, perhaps somewhat stylish/stylized. This *is* a virtual world, after all, so you can get away with wearing things which wouldn’t be entirely practical in RL.

Don't be discouraged by the feedback, even if it appears overtly negative. look for common themes in the comments, if one asshat is saying "You suck" then it may not be worth considering, whereas if several people point out the same thing, then it may be something worth looking into. Keep it in perspective, just because you make mistakes, it doesn't mean you have failed. Most of all, don't ask for feedback if you are too thinskinned to listen to it, even the most negative. I haven't been in your store in a while, I'll drop by first chance I get.

Well said Brenda!

There are many, many good designs and designers out there but for me, one thing that makes it to great is the feedback. That is being *able* to feedback!

I got a message from a group I'm in telling me about a designer who was giving out a super freebie clothing item. I went and got it. There at the shop, talking with other visitors was the designer. So, I stayed and listened and looked. Then I bought as well. I've told about 6 people directly and have mentioned this person a couple of times in threads. At least two of the people I told have bought also. All just from actually meeting and speaking with the designer. I would never have thought of actually looking for this but being introduced was a huge part of the attraction.

I tend to go for shops by word of mouth. If someone says 'oh i got this at...' I will have a look. I am also in the process of looking at the forum peep's shops. I will have a look at your shop as soon as i can Rhaorth. I have seen one of your smaller stands and I liked it.

I have gotten some reeeeeely nice stuff by word of mouth and am usually very impressed and will buy at least something.

I second (or third?) Brenda's comment.

And I will definitely make an effort to get to your store when i get in world.

That reminds me: Chris was maintaining a listing of LM's to Forumites' shops, and putting them on a notecard. I suggest reaching out to him if you have a shop to be listed , or would like the listing yourself. I think he's back from his morning raccoon hunt by now.

ooo i may go hunt him down for that list. Thanks for the tip brenda

Brenda, which Chris? Surname please? There's a lotta racoon hunting Chris's in SL tnx


edited to fix yet more wierd html which attacked my post!

On this Forum there is only one I know of, but that would be the unfamous Mr Norse.

Brenda I am definitely thick skinned enough to take negative comments (and yes I do watch for similarities, which I did see, so I redid my store and hopefully it has a more inviting feel now)

once my back is better and I am able to sit at the pc for more than 5 minutes at a time, I will arrange things in there to make better since, put some signs and such with some helpful information.

just because I am thick skinned, doesn't mean some of the negative comments won't sting (the old saying, the truth hurts is soooo true, but I would rather the truth than someone lie to spare my feelings)


anywho off to lay down again, thanks again to all who looked, I do appreciate it very much, and I am sure all the info given is helpful to so many more small time business folks as well

Are you still looking for comments and suggestions on your store, Rhaorth? If so, here's my thoughts, for what they're worth.

Bear in mind I'm not a big clothes shopper, and the stuff I do buy tends to be rather non-mainstream; so the fact that I didn't buy anything I saw in your store says nothing at all about the quality of your work. The pictures on the posters looked great; they're just not my personal style, is all. They do look like very nice examples of "mainstream" fashion. If I wore much of it, I'd probably be tempted by a few items there.

Probably a clothes enthusiast could give you better critiques/advice/suggestions than I could about the actual clothes themselves. My only real thought is that if you're going for the "mainstream fashionable clothing" market, bear in mind that it's a *huge* field and there's a LOT of competition. Just doing nice work probably isn't going to be enough to make you stand out from the crowd. If you could find some particular flavour or theme or niche that you could make your own, it might make it a bit easier for you because it'd give customers a reason to come to your store rather than the thirty others that are likely nearby. Perhaps some sort of signature design element? Or a No-Bling theme, explicitly stated? Or a particularly warm and snuggly line of sweaters and garments that go with them (I mention that because I thought your sweaters were rather nice)? Or stuff designed to work well with Furry head, tails and paws? Or... whatever else you can think of that might make your work more distinctive and memorable.

The biggest thing I'd change in your store, if it were mine, would be to put the prices of the items clearly on the posters. The layout of the posters is lovely and clear, the illustrations of the clothes are nice and uncluttered, and you've got info both on what is included in the purchased set and the perms of the items, which is great - but in SL, where folk tend to have the attention spans of gnats, one really wants to make it as easy as possible for them to buy stuff one is offering... all the critical info right there on the poster, and as few clicks to purchase as possible. Don't make 'em hunt for info such as price, because as often as not they'll not bother a lot of the time.

And on the topic of Making It Easy For Them To Buy... this might be a personal taste issue, I'm not sure - but I know that I tend to prefer the sort of vendorboxes where the default action on clicking is set to "buy". One click, and I have the purchase menubox up containing a list of items I'm purchasing and the price I'll be paying for it; one more click, and the item's purchased. I'm never quite as comfortable with vendorboxes that ask me to select "Pay" and trust that the item will be "delivered soon". I've never had a purchase not show up when made that way, but I guess that for me the "default action set to buy" thing makes the link between me paying and the object being delivered a lot more explicit. It just *feels* safer, to me. But maybe that's just me. :-7

The store layout's quite nice - clear and uncluttered, mostly. If it were me I'd skip the boxes in the middle of the store since any obstacles to navigate around make things a bit more challenging. But that's not a big deal. Oh, and what's the thing with the question marks on in the middle of the store? I'm guessing it's some kind of prize-giver/game, but perhaps a sign on it saying how it works might help?

Overall, I think it's a really nice store. The only glaring issue that I can pick is the absence of prices stated clearly on the posters; other than that, it's just nitpicky stuff as mentioned above. I don't see anything beyond the price issue that is a huge problem store layout wise. It looks like you're doing good work - if you can find a way to distinguish yourself from your many competitors, I imagine you'll do really well. Good luck, and here's hoping your sales start flooding in soon!