Minimum needed to play SL: Will a netbook work?

Hello everyone:

I apologize if this question has been asked and answered, but I could not find it in a search of the forums. (If you know of a post, please feel free to point me there!)

I am considering purchasing a "netbook" for travelling and to use as a second home computer. Without going into a lot of boring details, I would like to have something that is small and light, and most of what I would be doing is internet surfing and such. But I would like the option of using it to play SecondLife.

I would rather not spend the money just to bring a unit home, power it up, and find out it will not run the game at all. So, as I consider the options, can anyone tell me the bare minimums needed in a computer to play SL? And, after that, what is the optimum, or at least a decent midrange in your opinion?

"Netbooks" have smaller hard drives (some have none, I believe) and internal memory capacities in order to keep them lighter in weight. They give up a few other things in regards to performance as well, and I am confused as to what will work and what will not. For example, a friend suggested I could use a USB based jump drive to store info that SL would place on my hard drive, and plug it into a "netbook" when using the software...would that even work?

I'm sure there are varying opinions on what is the "best" configuration in order to be able to use SL, but the bare bones will give me a starting point, and opinions are welcome for future reference at the very least! Thanks very much.

Take care,
India

Minimum from the website.

Cable or DSL Cable or DSL
Operating System: XP, or Vista
Computer Processor: 800 MHz Pentium III or Athlon, or better
Computer Memory: 512 MB or more
Screen Resolution: 1024x768 pixels <--- ??? SL can run smaller in windowed mode
Graphics Card for XP**:

* NVIDIA GeForce 6600 or better
* OR ATI Radeon 8500, 9250 or better
* OR Intel 945 chipset


Well SL may have a small client but it downloads all the textures from the servers and it has to store them somewhere. But I've seen that most netbooks have huge hard drives compared to my old computer. I don't think you need to do anything special.

OK I looked at a few netbooks and it seems most have better processors and memory but it's the graphics card that I think you will have trouble finding.

Hi IndiaRose, the quick 'n dirty answer is that although a lot of netbooks are powerful enough so to speak, MOST of them do not have a proper graphics card for gaming/SL. However, there are a couple out there that *might* run SL *okay*... I found a recommendation online for the Lenovo S10 with 1.5 gigs of RAM:

https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/educators/2009-April/031384.html

Before making any decisions, consult:

https://secure-web18.secondlife.com/my/support/system-requirements/

PS, I have a non-SL capable netbook that I got for a couple hundred bucks and use for writing, chatting and watching Hulu when I'm out and about and I love that thing.

Newegg has a number of models with an Intel 950 GPU. That is the minimum spec supported by LL. You can run on lower specs (I had Intel 915 graphics on my last notebook, and it worked OK, but at nowhere near the visuals of my new laptop). See http://tinyurl.com/yks4cg7 for search results filtering for the 950 models. The Dell Mini 10v will also work, but it must be the "10v", not the "10."

Boy Lane has a netbook-optimized SL viewer. Details at http://my.opera.com/boylane/blog/rainbow-viewer-1-19-0-5-netbook-edition

A forum search for "netbook" does produce some relevant threads:

/327/cf/336047/1.html

/111/d4/323503/1.html

/111/e9/314004/1.html

and so on.

Also searching for particular models might work.

SL works on netbooks, not spectacular fast but it works at a very usable level. If you want buy a new one there are some things to consider.

Firstly almost all current netbooks are almost exactly the same from the hardware due to Intel and Microsoft monopoly. That is basically Atom CPU and GMA945 graphics. So it doesn't matter what brand you buy, you get the same hardware, just the price differs. I suggest to look out for a MSI Wind clone (more expensive models like from LG are identical to the Wind, same as cheaper ones like Axioo). Google is your friend .

Secondly and this may be the better choice for SL, there are a number of newer netbooks coming, like Samsung N510 or Lenovo S12 that have built-in Nvidia 9400 graphics, named ION. They will be way faster for graphic intensive applications like SL or HD video. However they come with a certain price tag.

Perhaps it makes sense to wait till xmas but there is always a reason to wait for this and that . I went with a cheap Axioo Wind clone a while ago and love it

Why do peoples expect what is pretty much requiring minimal GAME GRADE specs to run on a laptop when most laptops are either underpowered on the memory/video side or have a terrible thermal exchange that makes most of them end their life by ... terminally overheating.

Holy crap! Veritable, you are the man! I just installed this on my netbook... Sure, the sunsets aren't as pretty and some sculpties look a little odd, but it runs like butter!!! Didn't think that was possible!! Thanks!!! ;D

BTW mine is an Intel 945.

I just posted the link: Boy Lane did the real wok.

A lot of laptops these days can handle SL comfortably, and a lot of others can handle it with supplemental cooling, such as a Chillpad. The rash of SL-related laptop failures over the last couple of years has been largely due to a production defect in a range of nVidia mobility GPUs in popular use over the last couple of years, and is not what one should expect from a laptop not using one of the affected GPUs.

As for trying to run SL on a netbook, I don't really understand why someone would want to do that. It's one thing if you already own a netbook and try to see if SL will work on it; but it's senseless to buy a netbook specifically to play SL "on the road". Laptops are still considered portable devices and are much more suited for SL. They cost more, but there's a reason for that.

I think the problem is that laptops have become the new desktops, and netbooks are becoming the new laptop. Not necessarily in terms of performance, but rather in terms of usage patterns.

My question is will the netbook application of Boy Lanes run on a SL minimum requirements laptop? It's been running Nicholaz Old School but that viewer is crashing now several times a day. A non-windlight viewer would be ok. Recommendations, comments appreciated.

@Rebecca
Nicholaz did not update his old school with the latest adult and security changes, might be a reason you experience instability. My netbook viewer is based on 1.19 and also pre-windlight, same as Nick's.

Forget about SL's "official requirements", not updated for ages and to say it in simple words, misleading. Best is to try it out for yourself

If you have a Nicholaz viewer I'd suggest you simply rename the directory from SecondLife to something else. They can co-exist in parallel. Then install the official 1.19 viewer first into the default destination, and the netbook viewer installer on top of this and replace all files. Alternatively you can also choose a different directory during setup. The important thing is you need to start the viewer with the included RainbowViewer.lnk shortcut, not the "official" SecondLife one.

Hope that helps.

I realise this is a bit off topic but I'm hoping you'll be able to help me out to as regards a viewer. I am using a PC but sadly it has very poor graphics. An Intel G33/G31 Express Chipset family. I am totally non-technical and although I've been playing with the idea of putting in a better graphics card - Nvidia 250G or a GE Force 9400GT have been recommended from reading - but then I also read about over-heating and CPU wattage, etc, etc which has quite bewildered me and put me off. However, if I could find the right viewer all my troubles might be over? I've just recently downloaded Snowglobe 1.1.2 to replace the official old 1.22.11 viewer and I'm definitely noticing an improvement (but I can still look right through to the bottom of the sea).
All help and suggestions (within reason - and clean?) gratefully accepted.

Wow! My first ever post to these forums (fora?).

The right viewer will improve framerates and make better use of small screens (one of the goals of the netbook viewer), but it does that by sacrificing effects that slow down low end video cards. The water surface effects that add lights and reflections slow down graphics, and use hardware support that is not available on low-end graphics system.

So to be non-technical, low-end viewers will improve frame rates and make SL run a bit smoother, but the only way to get advanced water and atmosphere effects is with a better graphics card.

I recently bought a netbook for a lightweight way to check email and to access the web while travelling light. It's an Acer Aspire One D150-1165.
For giggles I installed the standard SL viewer to see if it would work - and it does, reasonably well. I mainly sat in my skybox chatting with friends, and the hardest part was adapting to the smaller keyboard and awkward right click button.
I've no idea how it would work in crowded environments, and how smooth all the animations would look, but, on a quiet beach the waves and splashes ran quite smoothly.
I guess as always, it's a trade-off between portability and performance, and for each of us, the degree of trade-off is different.....

I've did some tests with several viewer versions earlier, might give you an idea about what to expect. Numbers are FPS in the same test scenario with the different viewers

1.18.0.6: 6.6
1.18.5.3: 4.3
1.19.0.5: 6.7
1.20.0.17: 5.2
1.21.6.0: 5.1
1.22.11.0: 5.7
1.23.4.0: 4.8
S16: 5.0
S17: 5.7

http://my.opera.com/boylane/blog/2009/09/08/sl-on-netbooks

Welcome to the forums. I'd also suggest you get a better graphics card. You don't need the latest and fastest to make your SL much more fun, and also to keep your power requirements low.

Look for something 2nd hand (ebay) like a 8600GT or perhaps newer 9400/9600GT. A GTS250 is already overkill and there are likely other limits in your machine like CPU or memory. You don't write what PC that is but there are 2 main standards for graphics, the older AGP (can't find in newer boards anymore) and PCI Express (PCIe). You need to get a corresponding card with the same standard.

@Veritable, thank you for the advise.

@ Boy, and thanks to you too.

My PC is a Dell Ispiron 530, Intel Core2 Duo CPU @ 2.00 GHz with MS Vista Home Premium SP1 installed. I upped the RAM to 3 Gigs which helped. It's the graphics card (Intel G33/G31 Express Chipset family) which, as you advise, really needs replacing and there's the rub. I have opened the case and found that there are two PCIe slots available but if I follow your advice and buy one of the suggested cards do I just simply slot it in and off I go?
The things I wonder about and need to know are various such as, how do I find out if my CPU is up to the job (can't find it's wattage value anywhere), do I have to remove/delete anything to do with the existing card, do I have to download new drivers for the new card, etc, etc. I'm aware that as I type I'm using loads of "jargon" but I'm not terribly sure what a lot of it means. I have the general idea of what it all is but what it actually does and how it fits together ........ ? Rather like modern car engines, I know how they work but, where's the dip stick?

Once again, any help and/or advice will be greatly appreciated. Sorry if I'm asking too much.

(BTW, should I really have addressed this query to a different thread?)

You should have a 300 watt power supply, and have a PCI Express x16 slot available for graphics. I did a quick check on Newegg, and there are a couple of 9500 cards that should work.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162022
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500072

It *should* be a matter of just dropping it in and loading the Nvidia drivers. The Galaxy card recommends a 400 watt power supply, while the Zotac does not list anything. I did plug the base specs for a Dell Inspiron 530 into a power supply calculator, which indicated that even with a 9500 GPU (and assuming you have a DVD/RW+2 hard drives) your system should draw about 177 watts (YMMV).

A 9500 GT is about the same in performance as an 8600 GT. You should be able to run medium to high settings with water and atmosphere effects enabled, which will improve your visual quality and framerates at a reasonable cost.

No worries . So this means you use some built-in graphics chip on your mainboard now. Which is always a bad choice. I don't know what exact board the Dell uses, but usually if you have 2 PCIe slots the one furthest away from your CPU is the one to be used for graphics. Often these boards come also with a small dummy card that you place in the other PCIe slot to enable full speed (16x) for a single graphics card. Nothing you can actually break when you place it in the "wrong" slot, it may either work or not, if not swap it.

For the installation itself, you should first uninstall your existing Intel driver, then clean some possible remains wit Driver Sweeper http://www.guru3d.com/category/driversweeper/
After this reboot and go into your BIOS (usually by pressing the DEL key, sometimes F1 or F2, depending on the board) and there you should have an option to disable the onboard graphics of the G33/31 chipset. Disable it, save it and shut the comp off. Then plug your new card in and start Windows just normally. Then install your new driver from the Nvidia website (you can download that earlier when you know the card model, the current version is 191.07 I think). That's it . Good luck!

And regarding the power, your CPU will have no issues, in worst case your PSU is underdimensioned for the new graphics card and you may see some instability/crashes. In this case you need a better PSU. But this should not happen with a 9400 or 9600 card, only with more powerhungry ones.

Thank you both for this feast of good advice.

I'll have a dig around the UK sites for a suitable card and it's a great relief to know I don't have to muck around with other things, CPU and PSU, that I equally know nothing about. It may/will take me some time to get this done so I won't be able to up-date you in this thread - I tend to mull things over, sometimes for months, although this should only be days (or weeks?).

In the meantime, knowing the state of my current graphics, would you recommend me downloading one of your "Boy" viewers to supercede the Snowglobe viewer. Maybe I shouldn't ask but just go ahead and try one and see what happens.

Once again, very many thanks for all your help.

Your best bet is a pre windlight one, like 1.19. But it doesn't hurt to try around, also experiment with the graphic settings and rendering options in the advanced menu, you probably see through the water as the default settings are the lowest the viewer sets automatically.

Thank you Boy and Veritable for the great info. This thread is getting better and better for those with older PC's/Laptops struggling to stay in Second Life. It will be the weekend before I can get ahold of this machine to try out the suggestions. Will let you know how it goes.
Becca

I'll definitely try Boy Lane's version!

I do have a netbook - an Acer running XP with a hard drive - and SL works OK on that with the standard viewer. The graphics are OK too.

My first question when I bought it was "will it run SL?". They didn't know in the store, but said I could return it if it didn't!