Hello again :)

Just have a few more questions..and I might have to add a few as they come up.

So I've been renting a nice little skyhome for a couple weeks. Its on PG and am considering when my month is up going Prem. and getting a small 512sqm on mainland.

My main question at the moment is what will my prim allowance be on that 512? And would it just not be worth it (if it can't be increased over 200) and to maybe just rent a piece of property on Mature land?

The new property would be another sky platform...with me having purchased one of Ace's sky homes. So wondering if i'd actually be saving a bit of money going this route? (His homes have a decent low prim amount and the homes are still lovely!)

*sigh* thanks for any insight. I checked out as much as I could on http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Help/Land ....and didn't see anything much about prim counts on mainland parcels.

512m gets 117 prims on mainland.

and can't be increased, correct?

A 512 parcel has 117 prims. Whether or not it is better to rent or own is strictly up to the person. I prefer to own my parcels.

on an estate? or mainland? I know that if you own a parcel on an estate or something the prim limit is distributed by the owner right? (omg this crap is so confusing!)

yes, but you aren't buying estate land, you are renting it from the estate owner.

yes..currently i am. i was asking if you buy your parcel/s from an estate owner. do you still have to pay like a lot rent?


*edit* I think I get this...so...you bought your parcel from the estate owner. You pay the "tier fees" on that parcel to LL. I guess my question is...when you bought the land from the owner...they give you a certain amount of prims for that land right? Can you buy more if you needed it? Thats like, dependent on each different estate owner right? ....oh...so this is what I was reading about how if you get a mean estate owner they can take away your prims or do whatever unkind thing they want to do to your property? (being the actual "owners" of the land). ...lots to think about...

to my understanding it goes like this and someone correct me if im wrong on estate. u rent from the estate owner and u pay the estate owner and the estate owner pays LL. u dont own it, the estate owner owns it. or u can own the estate and then u pay LL the tier instead of the estate owner and now u can rent it out to the 3rd party, cause u are now the owner. is this right

You can't buy parcels from an estate owner and pay for them with tier, you can only rent them.

You can buy parcels on the mainland. The only place you can get bonus prims is in Bay City and Nautilus City, and if you can *find* a 512m parcel there it will likely go for hundreds of dollars US.

O.O"

I'm feeling like sl will be like rl....destined to be a renter.

Nah, you can get regular prim... not bonus prim... parcels for reasonable prices all over the grid. You'll just have to make do with 117 prims instead of 234.

You can actually own up to 560 square meters on the premium "bonus tier" if you use a group, because there's a 10% "group bonus" to tier held in groups.

It only sounds complex. Eventually you'll be able to handle it while playing a saxophone.

There's nothing at all wrong with being a renter in SL. Even if you own the land you still have to pay monthly to Linden Labs. The only real advantages to owning are, you don't have to worry about your landlord closing up shop... and there is a TINY chance you might be able to resell the land at a profit.

Please use newb speak Argent! lol I don't think I've seen what regular or bonus prim is. So thats a new one to me.

By group bonus...so...buy my 512, group it...oh damn it all I'm confused again.

*edit* and its not the sqm that I really care to much about tbh. I just would like to have about 240 prims available like I have now (renting).

Ok....I'm going to try and clarify the land confusion...


IF you buy on mainland.....you're paying LL tier every month.....and you do, in effect 'own' that parcel. You can sell it off.....whatever....it's your piece of turf.

Or, you can rent from an estate owner.....which in most cases gives you all the important permissions of an 'owner' without paying an up front cost for the land. No matter what.....you pay tier every month....so, buying land basically is just spending more money, so you can pay tier every month. Well....there's perks with full land rights....but you have to look at what you really want to get out of it. If you don't NEED full land rights...terrain editing and all that.....it's so silly to buy.

With a premium account, you do get your first 512 chunk of land with no tier fees. It can be a good way to learn about land and prims and setting up house.....or even throw up a small shop.... but in the end....most people quickly burn thru 117 prims and realize they need a lot more to really do what they want.

The other issue is of course....non-mainland property. The ONLY people who ever truly OWN private estates.....are the land barrons who purchased the islands from the Lindens and had them set up. Those people will always be the ones responsible for paying tier directly to LL. SO.......even if you 'buy' a parcel from a private estate owner......you're still not paying tier to Linden Lab....you're paying it to the original purchasor......who can decide to abandon or shut down their region any time they choose. So the concept of land ownership is really very very shaky UNLESS you buy a full region directly from LL,
or purchase on the Mainland.

But....the up side is that renting on private estates gives you all benefits of owning anyway. I rent a homestead island....lower prims than a full region....but same land mass....and it's great. I have owner rights....I can mess with the terrain if I want...I can choose my music stream....set fly/build/push/script permissions......The only thing I can't do as a renter is turn around and sell it if I decide to move on. But, honestly, with all the tier paid out over the months....I'm not gonna make it back in one sale anyway. It's like renting IRL.....when you're done you're done.

Don't worry about it though. One advantage to "buying" in an estate is you do not have to be a Premium member, so that money can go to your "rent".

Find yourself a good landlady and buy a parcel for 0 or 1 Linden, then pay the rental. A good estate owner is worth their weight in gold. A good one will help you with problems that the help desk may or may not help you with.

Ask your friends if they know of any good ones. There are lots of them.

You could buy a premium membership (with that you get a stipend of $300 per week) and then buy a 1024 sq meter parcel (234 prims) on mainland. If you are doing a skybox then you don't care what the land looks like, so you could probably pick one up for around $3000.

Or... you should be able to rent a 234 prim parcel for around $500 per week.

Still have to essentially buy it from someone right? Or does LL have cheap land to choose from?



yea...I'm not sure I would really need the terrain editing. Actually, I know I don't.



Just renting...I know 117 isn't very much. So this kinda knocks out owning a 512 on the mainland at all.



Essentially this is still rent. This is way to risky for me. They can basically take the stuff that you put on the property too right?



Now...homestead island. This kinda sounds promising...but is is costly? You said the same land mass...does that mean you're paying a lot basically for the amount of land? (really I could do with 512 to 1024 and be very fine with that size land...just like I said need/want about 240-250 prims to work with).

Thanks for all this everyone. I'm learning LOTS today!

LOL OMG WTF ROFL!
Regular prim parcels allow you to rez 117 prims on a 512 square meter parcel.

Bonus prims are something the estate owner can set, that let you use more prims than the parcel normally allows. This effectively relocates prim quota from empty parcels to rented ones. To get the same number of prims without using the estate bonus you'll have to buy 1024 square meters. That will cost you $5.00 a month over the "free" tier.

1024 square meters of land, at current prices, will set you back about US$20.

One premium account, paid annually, US$72.00.
Extra tier, one year, US$5.00/month, US$60.00.

Total, US$152.00 for the first year.

But wait... you also get L$300 a week stipend, that comes to about US$60.00 a year in tie payments.

So the net cost is $92.00 the first year, $72.00 the second and subsequent years. What I do is let the stipend accumulate and transfer it to US$ and use it to pay tier for the next year.

Now if you create an alt and make IT premium, too, and pay for a year. Put them in a group with each other, and you can buy up to 1120 square meters of land in the group without paying extra tier.

1024 sm, US$20
Two premium accounts, US$144.00, less US$120 in tier paid back over the year, US$24.00.

Net cost the first year, US$44.00. Net cost second and subsequent years, US$24.00.

Compare that with what you're paying on the estate, see if it makes sense.

When buying mainland with your premium account, you can buy as large as you like and add the extra prim usage to your monthly fee:

USD 195.00/ month 65,536 Entire Region
USD 125.00/ month 32,768 1/2 Region
USD 75.00/ month 16,384 1/4 Region
USD 40.00/ month 8,192 1/8 Region
USD 25.00/ month 4,096 1/16 Region
USD 15.00/ month 2,048 1/32 Region
USD 8.00/ month 1,024 1/64 Region
USD 5.00/ month 512 1/128 Region

Each of the figures above is how much EXTRA land above your 512 free tier will cost. If you wish to stick with the 234 prims like you have now, then you can buy a 1024 sized plot and pay $15 a month ($10 premium membership plus $5 for the extra 512 land).

Private estates you are only ever renting the land. I would advise never to go with someone who charges a large up front figure to buy the land as there are plenty who do not charge for the sale of it.

You need to decide whether you would prefer the usually more peaceful and better setting of private estates or owning your own parcel totally on mainland. For someone new to land ownership, at least on private estates you also get the benefit of a landlord and staff to help with any problems.

Edited to add: There are a lot of well known trusty island owners out there who have been in the business a long time. As long as you check out who you are renting from before you do then the risks are minimal.

Hi Sunny,
Outside of any 'group' additional prims, renting of extra prims, etc (which some estate owners do, depends) here's the breakdown, outside of that.

Size of Land Parcel:
512=117 prims
1024-234 prims
2048=468 prims
4096=937 prims

(and on like that to bigger parcels too)

Do you see the pattern here? That's pretty standard and estate owners often follow that pattern although they 'could' set it differently if they choose to, for those cutting parcels.

Usually the only way you can get more prims is to buy more land. You are talking about the 512 mainland that you are entitled to with no additional charge when you have a premium SL account, I presume, that is why you are looking for a 512 on the mainland. Right? If you choose to purchase more than 512, you'd be responsible for paying any tier over and above the size 512. I own land on both estate and mainland, and some of it is owned just for the extra prims, don't really need the extra space, just the prims, so bought additional land to cover that need. There are some here who can tell you all about renting prims etc but thats way too tech for me, lol, I'm not a new person but it's just over my head. So, above I've just given you basics.

The prims are easy: a full sim (65536sqm) can never hold more than 15k prims, so a 512 is 1/128th of that size and therefor 1/128th of 15k prim (except the bonus prim sims Linden lab created on some mainland sims)

Any Estate owner offering a bonus, must leave land open to accomodate that bonus.

Let's say I would rent out 512 sqm plots with 237 prims, I would need to leave half the sim empty, since this is a bonus of 2.0

Renting estate has good and bad sides, same goes for renting mainland, and owning mainland.

Renting a skybox etc: you do not 'own' the parcel, so you cannot change any of the settings. Renting this way can be either on mainland or estate. In all cases you pay the owner the rent, who in his turn pays LL. You can leave after a rental period by simply not extending. The resident renting out needs to be trustworthy

'leasing' or 'renting' an estate parcel: You theoretically own the parcel, although the estate owner can always reclaim this land. The estate owner can NOT steal your objects but can return them at any time. You can set parcel settings, within the limits the estate owner allows. You can change any settings in "about land" tab except if the estate owner overrules particular settings.

Owning mainland: You will pay tier directly to Linden Lab and can set all parcel settings without limitations. No resident has any say in what you do with these settings, but you need to stay within the region settings of either PG, Mature and soon "Adult"

Owning estate: You get same freedoms as owning mainland plus:
- estate tools, go to "world" menu and then "region/estate". Every single item there is available for estate owners.

Hope this makes it clear for you.

Ben

Ok...simplified is really nice for me to think on. lol

So...if bf and I both became premium members, make a group. Both buy our 512sqm's (side by side, right?) then one of us "donate" their 512 to the group...we'd have our peace and quiet 1024sqm's...234 prim...home in the sky?

*quietly begs* please tell me that'd work...right? lol

or is that going to be more stuff over my head and I should heavily consider finding someone who knows what all this is and renting our plot? *leaning this way*

Yes plus donating entitles you to 10% extra, meaning each of u can donate 560sqm (563.2sqm to be exact)

Is there a tutorial on this exact subject? So if we're grouped together...we're now looking for 563.2sqm each to purchase...instead of the 512?

Not as far as I know, never seen such tutorial.
The bonus is 10%, but there is a little catch: a plot cannot be smaller than 16sqm (sorry forgot about that)

If you donate your allowed holdings to the group, in grouptab "land & L$" it will state the totals.

One thing: this ONLY goes for mainland.