More on Camping...Is Any Okay?

Hate to bring up another camping thread, but I think my question will be lost if I post it in the others. It seems there is an overwhelming dislike for bot camping, and many dislike camping all together. There are those who say they leave when they see campers but I really think they are in the far minority. But what about a small business trying to get started?

What are peoples opinions out there if I installed two or three of those camping animations that don't look like camping (washing windows, etc)? Does this cause any kind of negative feeling towards a business? Also, does anyone know where to get one? When I try to search camping I only get camping spots.

I figure any camping that remains after the traffic number is gone is fine.

Honestly, I don't care if there's a little camping. I hate it when there's an endless line of bots dragging sim performance down, and I hate camping myself. I tried it when I was new, but as soon as I worked ut the math, I quit. But if I show up somewhere and there are a few campers, I just haven't got the energy to care.

As for where you get that stuff, the only place I've seen it for sale was when I took a baloon tour and I saw it from the air. I know that's worthless info. It was from the Shelter, I think, and the tour showed the area where teens come in from the teen grid, and some sort of Star Wars build, and about half way through, there was a huge store that had a sign that said it sold camp chairs and animations. Crap advice, I know.

You know, I was just thinking about this while reading the other threads on camping. I'm one of those that leave when I know camping is being used to skew 'search' and it make shopping laggy.
BUT - If you're a small business trying to compete against ones who use zombie bots and such, what else can you do? I feel for you but can't really answer 'cause I'm not sure what I would do in your place. I can only tell you that when I see 1,2, or 3 avatars 'sweeping' or 'washing' the windows, for some reason, it doesn't bother me. I just see it as kinda cute. If anyone needs $L that much, they deserve it.

I used to have 1 camping station at each of my 2 realty offices.

One office has a garden type theme so I had a guiter player beside the path. I like street musicians and thought it looked cool.

The other office had HUGE window walls so I got the window washer. Add to the ambiance.

I figured I'd help out a little for a couple new players. One chair per sim wouldn't affect anything and no-one could say I was gaming the traffic with only 1 chair. I thought it would be a good thing to do. Then the bots found me. I wanted to help a couple new players make a couple bucks so I actually had them set kinda high but I'll be darned if I'm gonna pay a bot farmer.

Unfortunatly I had to take them both out. I was getting gamed by the bots and since I didn't really need them out I took them away. A shame really. I liked the way they added to the scene.

BTW, IM me in game and Ill get one out and get you a LM to the place I got them.

Exactly. If I felt that in order to run a business I would have to have dozens of dance pads out front I wouldn't bother. I'm doing this for fun, but I would like to at least pay tier, and hell, if I make some money in the process that'd be great. I believe the traffic system needs to be eliminated or at least majorly overhauled, but until then I don't see how having a few people making a few bucks out front is going to hurt.

I'm not convinced I would want to do any. Just something to consider.

The fact that creators are giving up is the whole point. A lot of us do not want to spend
our time gaming the system which really is aimed at newbies that don't realize their view of what is available in SL is manipulated by a few that could care less.

True creators want to create things and have a fair chance at selling them-----and that is what has a lot of people upset. It's the blantant gaming that has people ticked--and it is out of control now.

There are some Jira's you can vote on. Here's a good place to start:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1052

One source is Club Deco on Boulevard Mystique. (I've never tried these but they seem to get used a lot.) But the basic camping script is very simple--there must be some version of it in the Scripting Library--if you have some pre-existing sit target that you wanted to turn into a camping spot. In any case, you obviously want to make sure it's trustworthy, since it will have to have debit permission in order to pay out.

There's a win-win opportunity here: If you set up some camping spots that pay out, and then charge for some special camper-bashing weapons, you could please both crowds, break even, and increase traffic all at the same time! Then, when it gets popular, you can advertise it as performance art and please another whole constituency.

Seriously, though, if I saw a couple of campers at a business site, I don't think it would break the deal for me. But I don't think a couple of campers is gonna allow you to compete with the trafficbot runners. My hunch is that success is more likely if one just cedes that ground and finds a different strategy to out-fox them. That would require more work and some cleverness. (On the other hand... it doesn't take a genius to spawn a few dozen trafficbots, so those competitors may not be that hard to out-scheme.)

Here's one way to beat the bots. It takes more time on your part, but can be fun too. You directly hire the campers.

I have an alt who worked as an instore model, basically to boost the store's traffic. She modeled clothes and got paid in them, 20 hours per outfit. Her hours were measured by a timeclock script, basically an AV scanner that counted hours for people wearing the models' group tag. You had to work 80 hours/week or you were no longer an employee.

In your case, the models might be attractively using your furniture or whatever, and you might pay them in merchandise and lindens both. This store owner had dance balls that some used as well as pose stands.

In our case, there were at least 8 models in the group at all times, generally AFK when working. Some of us came to know each other and had a fun time; we tended to all gather once a week, when the store owner distributed the outfits. Sometimes a small group of us would all be online at once, and we would run amok in the store. We would also occasionally help customers with questions or customer service issues - the store itself was helplessly confusing. One night we rezzed freebie trampolines all over the store. One night we rode unicycles, seeing who could climb the ramps without falling off. We tested weapons. Became friends.

I think it's one of those things that's needed for a small business if you want any form of search ranking. I have two in store models that help give me a little traffic, the days they are not modeling I notice the following days traffic brings in much less 'visitors'.

I say try it, if it helps and the money put out is made up on sales, why not?


let me know if you need the camp chairs, I have some you can use.

I like the guitar playing, window washing store dressing..makes SL feel less deserted. And I love it when there are models showing the clothes.

There is also a group of dancing geishas that it so serene and lovely on the (I think) Java sim that I like as well.

The animations are good and it reminds me of clockwork dolls..

Detest the camping chairs and bots though and will not buy from any store using them and I spend a lot of money in SL.

Camping is not necessary to run a business in Second Life. I have a very small place, as does my wife, and we have always been able to pay tier (quarter sim) and beyond with out it. *shrug* I think advertising is a way more beneficial way to spend your lindens to get your stuff seen.

Edit: To address the following post, by small place I meant small business. Sorry that was unclear...

There must be a better way to promoto Sl without the need to use multi avies running 24 hours a day one thse that do it. As the latter person said they get by paying for their tiers without the need to run a business. But does that me they use camping avies to make their tiers? What makes me giggle some is when those camping find out without knows the game is going down. wakeup to find out they been logged out of the game. They scream on the blog about this under alt names saying bla bla bla..........That always makes my day No really sure which direction sl is going. With no real direction and the camping issues still heated and leads the popular listings. We might still be in a dark ages on sl, with no light at th end of the tunnel. 2008 well it start just like 2007 without a bang or a promise for the future.

There's not a lot wrong with camping itself. I don't have a big problem with camping. Camping is quite clearly an advertising tool.

Other options are lucky chairs and wonder chairs.

Camping to add atmosphere is fine, such as having the avatars do things that fit the theme of the area. That's rather like paying staff to do the same sort of things. It's a bonus if I see other people who are actually shopping/visiting too.

I don't LIKE the alts at the bottom of the pool, in the skybox or anything of that nature. It means the person is incapable of doing good work on their own and must use the bots to skew the traffic. I also don't like setting the regular campers out of sight.. so that they are out of mind.

Any serious business offering camping does so for advertisement and NOT to boost traffic. Although I have a small income in SL I am a camper myself but I choose only some specific locations: It's either clubs I go to chat or RL businesses that use camping to expose users to their brand. (just like banner ads on a website! Is that bad?). Those camp sites are usually very fast in kicking and banning all bots and alts. They will investigate any reported bot or alt case. They want real people to interact and eventually get exposed to their products, brands and logos. My favorite camp spot is an RL business, offers events and is staffed with a greeter 24/7. If you don't chat at all or hang out there 24/7 using some bot system you get kicked. Those camp spots also pay up to 5 times more than the regular 1/10 spots. The overnight parking lots are usually full anyway with multiple alts and bots (which are the real problem here, not camping.)

ok then so two wrongs make a right.

I see using camping to pad your traffic numbers as lying to your customers. Your traffic numbers are blatant lies.

I don't do business with dishonest people, period. So you would always lose my business if you used campers there.

You say you "have" to - I don't believe that for one minute.

If you have to lie to get customers, there is something wrong with your business. If you have a viable, desirable product, you don't need to lie to sell. That's all there is to it.

Nope the traffic numbers are true, the campers generate the traffic but the numbers are true.



Why are you remotely bothered by the traffic numbers then? Why are you even checking them?

Two businesses with similar products, one has campers, one doesn't. The one with the campers will attract more customers because they are going to be found first, that's why people use camping. Whereas some say they TP out, I'm sorry but if you don't know where the campers are or that they are even there, as when bots are used, you're going to be buying there.

If I'm board and checking out the hot spots and I teleport in and see campers, I teleport out again. I want to visit popular spots that are actually popular, not full of campers.
But an odd window washer, sweeper or something like that is OK, it's the row after row of camping chairs I can't stand.

Bradley:

I think that your original question is incomplete. You asked if some camping is ok, but ok with whom? You've seen in the big thread that it's ok with LL, and you've also seen that it's ok with some people here but not with others, so there isn't going to be a unanimous opinion because of those others.

If you really don't want anyone to find fault with what you do, then don't use any camping (I don't see any difference in using 'models' or 'window cleaners' to achieve the same ends - it's still putting avatars on the land, that wouldn't normally be there, to improve traffic figures for ranking purposes).

I suggest that you do what you feel is right for you. You know that LL approve of camping, so you know that it is not breaking any rules. After that it is only a matter of people's personal preferences. If it's right for you to please the small number of people here who are against it, then don't do it. If you don't want a small number of people to influence your actions, and if you think that traffic numbers are needed, then use camping. Decide for yourself, and be true to yourself.

Having said that, why bother with the Places search at all if doing things to improving the rankings there might be a bit uncomfortable for you? The new All search is very good for getting visitors, and Classifieds works to some extent too (some people pay hundreds of US$ per week), not to mention word of mouth. There is plenty of information here that explains how to improve the All rankings, and top Classified rankings are simply bought.

You said that you're only really bothered about recovering your tier, so perhaps it would be good to see what you can do with Clasifieds and All first - you may not even need to consider Places and the small number of people here.

I have very mixed feelings about camping. I don't see it as being nearly as deceptive and sleazy as bots since it at least trades value for value, though I'll never understand why anyone would rather park their av in a chair for eight hours instead of just spending a dollar on the LindeX for a much greater return. I'm not sure how effective it is at generating actual business as opposed to boosting traffic. After all you're catering to people who want you to give them money instead of the other way around, and even if they spend the money they earn from camping there at your store, they're just giving you your own money back. All of that said, it seems pretty harmless provided it isn't causing server lag that negatively impacts your neighbors or people who are trying to browse your wares. I applaud those people who combine camping with store models or other things that create a benefit for their shoppers.

I'm still waiting for someone to combine camping with whack-a-mole so that people who are irritated by it can enjoy hitting campers over the head with a large mallet.

Now that could be fun.

But Id want the Land owner to also be in a dunking booth.

totally scriptable. how much do you think someone would pay for one could be tempting to drop some projects.

No idea, but I bet people would be willing to pay $1 to take a whack, making the payout to the camper completely free for the owner.