Should I rent on a Private Island?

Good. If that business model is viable, then the new guy can get his foot in the door. And that is a good thing.

Anyone can sell estate land, I sold it right away when I got my island. People will buy. I just don't feel comfortable with that model anymore.

No up front fee generally means higher tier costs. Not always, but generally it works that way, so you take your choice.

Our business model is almost that. I have two plots on "lease"; the rest are just ordinary week by week rentals.

The difference in 'selling' private island plots often entails rights to terraform, place whatever style of property, use ban lines etc etc, none of which we normally grant as we want a cohesive theme open to all (that said, minor terraforming isn't a problem and we're happy to do that).

There are many landlords out there; for me, the difference between success and failure comes in a) the theme and landscaping/rules - if any - of the region and b) the customer service you can offer. My partner and I spend a lot of time with our tenants should they need it and welcome the interaction with them. We keep hearing of other landlords who are never on line but boot at the first instance of arrears; how they ever manage to cover tier is a mystery to us!

And Desmond makes a very good point - don't EVER expect to be rolling in (insert currency of choice) - in RL terms your time will always be worth far more than you will ever make from SL, unless you happen to capture the market in sex gear etc!

If you want to IM me inworld I'll happily discuss tips and hints

Inc

That barrier of entry can be surmounted with money. 1675 USD nowadays, to be precise. If you are just starting out, simply pay that and don't charge up-front fees.

You'll also have to risk 295/mo until you gain tenants, unless you prebook the region. Which is something I have done, with the exception of the original Caledon. Yes, even region #34 this week was prebooked; I think I ordered it when it was about 70-80% full (it is now 100%). I won't get a region without ensuring as best I can that it will be financially stable first.

So the cynical might call this brand equity. Compare a red and white can that says Coke on it, against some random can with some brown fizzy stuff inside.

Does Coke 'deserve' its market dominance? Does a newcomer not deserve equality in the eyes of the consumer? As a capitalist I have to say a century of honest effort shouldn't be 'equalised' away for the sake of newcomers. It's a problem, but it's the newcomer's problem to prove himself. Otherwise he can find himself his own underserved market and spend a century working up to being #1.



Mmmm... it's good you said "my tenants" - because I can't refute that. For all I know you have a goldmine somewhere.

But on balance with your average startup, I disagree that it is little risk.

Watch...

1675 gone, day one.

Two hours a night, five days a week: 520 hours per year. 520 hours = 13 weeks of full time job annually. Anyone doubt my estimate? Just try doing it... and if you are the "rent out and go play Warcraft type" well, you'll pay anyway in occupancy.

Say you are inexpensive labour in the United States and make poverty wage: 13884 USD annually. Even at that ridiculously low rate, 13 weeks equates to 3471 USD of your time.

Say you do *extraordinarily* well and charge high rates, and are 100% full the whole time from day one. You may make 200 a month (that's more than I make on any Caledon region by the way).

So in this incredibly rosy scenario, you lose 1675 that first year, make 2400, and spend 13 weeks full time for the net income of 725 USD. At 520 hours, that's 1.39 USD per hour.

My point: If anyone is expecting their landlord to stick it out year after year for 1.39 per hour and not call that a risk...

* * * * *

That's how I call it. But for the critics out there let's say my time estimates are all bollocks and multiply the income rate by five.

Would any of you tolerate being on-call customer service in SL 6.97 USD per hour? Much as you try to avoid it, drama hell *will* find you. Only now you get to play Solomon, or risk getting your carefully groomed rep trashed by one drama queen.

(By the way Avion I respect you quite a bit - the long refutation is what I think about the issue, not you - and I deeply admire your way to carry a point. I'm getting called off the computer, so this post is being 'wrapped up' quick and a bit roughly - be interesting to see what you think)

Said it before, say it again, Sofia Westwick. When she has land that is cos it disappears fast - non VAT and she is just wonderful to work with.

I'm selling mine I think (no not a plug, haven't decided yet). Just sold all my mainland and rented ... mainland. Incredibly lucky - not the cheapest place but absolute gold, protected water all around on two sides, themed sim, pervy landlady. I'm in heaven atm, other than that I can't rename our lot.

This too has it's advantages in terms of not tugging heart strings in case of messy breakups, which I hope I never have cause to be pleased about.

As an ethical landlord myself, I always advise people to read the covenant. Those that are detailed and have a well recognised company operating it, is helpful and reliable. Having a website helps too (you can check the domain owner to verify the estate owners identity), and any legit person wont have any problem disclosing their identity to you.

As for reputation of any given landlord, ask the residents who live there already they are your most reliable guage of how you would be treated. How long have the residents been there? Have they found the staff responsive and helpful? Have they had problems?

When checking on the reputation of estate owners, I do caution people against listening to anonymous people on forums or anywhere else. In our experience, a number of unethical estate owners who have shoddy reputations attack their competitors through alts, either verbally in forums, or by scamming their competitors residents, or other forms of slander and libel, even griefing in public places and claiming their competitor hired the alt to commit the griefing.

Another poor source of advice: we have found that some people dont seem to think the rules apply to themselves. Either they buy land and refuse to pay tier, sometimes claiming personal life issues for sympathy, or claiming that tier is illegal in their country, or other such BS, or they come in and fill up the sim with campers so other landowners can't access their property, then act offended when you tell them they cant do that. When you kick them out for such offensive behavior they tell everybody you scammed them! Its really rather sad, but it does happen.

As for our own estate, we follow the land sales and tier model for the most part, and recognise landowners rights as part of our covenant. We dont discriminate against uses, but we do limit lag to 1millisecond of script lag per 4k square meters, which tends to keep out the worst offenders, and keeps the sims pleasant for all people but those on the oldest machines.

I'm no alt but i can say with assuredness that just because an estate owner calls themselves "ethical" they are not. 9 times out of ten I have found that estate owners with no more than 10 -20 sims got those SIMs via being more underhanded than the guy they stole the money from in the first place to buy those SIMs.



so.... ...Be careful. DO listen to what everyone has to say. I'm sure if bad things are being said about Desmond..you'll hear 1000 good things to wipe that out. Make up your own mind wether or not you feel as if someone is being slanderous in what they tell you about an "ethical" ~OR~ "unethical" estate owner.

and please...Be Careful!!

~Lana

Well as long as you don't boot them and keep their money then it's not a scam.

sounds like words of experienced wisdom..?..or?

~Lana

NEVER pay more than $1 for estate land, there are stories so often of "fly by night" landlords selling sims from under tennants feet without warning, usually to an alt.
Then again don't pay $1 either because they are cheating the system by listing rentals in the "for sale" classifieds
There's more land for rent than for sale, which is a damn lot of land, so just move on to the next Landlord, try to pick one whose been in SL more than 6-12 months too.
Paying to buy from a month old landlord? = DANGER! DANGER !

L$1 is extremely misleading. The cost is never L$1.



That's a quirk of the system.

No, it's people cheating by listing land at for sale for $1 to get free advertising compared to mainland landlords who have to pay to advertise in property rentals.

As I said, L$1 is misleading. Yet there are umpteen advantages for both landlord and tenant in being able to buy estate land in a rental model. The tenant can use the land right away, they don't need to fill up another group space. It's the system, that doesn't allow for the option of such land being either not listed or listed elsewhere that is the issue.

The for sale land search should only be for land available for resale and L$1 being used as a reserve plot tactic is misleading advertising.

I had the good fortune to know Dekka when he was Estate Manager on SIM2-0, and I was thinking even harder than him at the time, if that's possible, about how to translate what was in my head into an SL build! He went out of his way to be helpful, and if he's as good a landlord as he was an EA, he'll be a pleasure to rent from.

No, he didn't pay me to write this!
No, I haven't promised him all my stuff!!

Dekka, if you decide to go ahead with it, do let me know

The last time I searched for an estate parcel, I kept a spreadsheet open. In it, I compared the 3-month, 6-month, and 12-month costs of each parcel I was considering. In most cases, the rent parcels had such high tier prices that after a short time, I would have paid more for them than for those with an upfront cost. Factoring in the ability to sell the "purchased" parcels made them clearly a better deal than the rentals.

In February, I purchased a parcel from the FairChangs, who have an outstanding reputation. There was an upfront cost, but there was no tier for the first month. It is a much better deal than any rental I saw, and it's on an attractive, well-maintained island.

Of course, you must be able to avoid a scam-artist estate owner if you're considering a purchase. I once purchased a parcel from an estate owner I didn't know, but I talked to other parcel owners and searched for complaints about the owner before making a decision. Also, you can check in About Land to see when each parcel was purchased and determine if there is much turnover on that island.

Thanks for all the advice, you've given me much better info than I expected. I'm really in two minds whether to go ahead or not with a purchase. I am feverishly designing, texturing and building bits at a time to offer quite an unusual island theme, and again this is taking longer to do than I expected, I have a little notebook filled with doodles of machinery, buildings and landscapes I just hope the translation to SL works well and that the theme (maybe its not even true to call it a theme, but a look) attracts people to the island.

Dekka, it's a viable venture and if you have something unique, go for it. Your challenge will be in marketing the thing properly.

Keep in mind that they can take your "purchase" money, let you move in, and then kick you out with no reason, keeping your money. This happens all the time and the victims have no recourse.

I think people are fools to pay to "buy" private island land, they should simply rent it. Then if your landlord turns out to be a jerk, you waste at most the rent paid in advance and the time you've spent. However, SL is full of such fools, so they can charge a fee and they'd be silly not to since they can.

If it's worth to you what you pay, and if you're willing to take the risks (mitigating it through reseach), then there's no reason not to go for it. Well run private island land has far fewer issues with neighbors, thanks to covenants. Of course, those who can't tolerate any restrictions on their land use should stick to mainland.

My land is set for sale for 1L$ for exactly the reasons you suggest. However, I try to make it clear in the description that the land is for rent only. Until we get the option to hide our sales from the sales list, there's not much else I can do in that regard.

When reading covenants, remember that it's binding on you but not on the island owner.

Also, scamming isn't the only reason for unfair land reclamation. Someone might simply have new plans for the land you "own". This puts you in a bad bargaining situation: the island owner may make offers, but if you refuse they can simply take you land back and say "thanks".

There are certainly reasons for wanting to "buy" the land and "own" it, not the least of which is all the controls the owner of record gets. This need not have any bearing on whether the payment plan includes a substantial initial purchase price, but it does because it's the model that SL residents have stuck in their minds. Actually, setting up "rental" land where the renter does not own is *more* hassle for the island owner, so "buying" should really have a lower up-front cost.

This is the entire problem with the entire system.

Desmond, all I mean is the tenant's risk, in the context of the "estate land scam" problem. My most expensive place isn't going to cost a tenant more than about 8 dollars for the week. That's all they would be out if something happened to me, or I turned crooked. Oddly enough, my tenants that rent the fancy schmancy places with extra prims tend to pay far in advance, even though I don't ask them to.



That all makes perfect sense, and the numbers all look perfectly reasonable. Don't forget, though, that for someone like me, that 2 hours a night is my "hobby time." SL is just what I do in place of watching TV or playing video games. Making money at it is just the challenge, just like destroying the rebels with my Death Star used to be before I knew about SL.



That's such a nice thing to say, thank you! No need at all for any qualifiers. I love our discussions.