Now this is worrisome...

I just went to slexchange to look for Goth fashion (Too much of it but very little that I like) ... and look what I found in the first page.

http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=376423

With all the stalking threads I thought it might be a good idea to post it here.

I found their disclaimer disingenuous at best...

I quote:

"It is highly illegal to stalk or do harmful actions towards other avatars in secondlife. Use this gadget at own risk! If you get caught doing harmful stalking - your ass are probably going to get owned by Linden Police"

.d

I hate this cr*p. HATE it!

Darn near any griefer tool you might want is available on SLExchange. They all have that ingenuous disclaimer, "Not to be used for griefing." Yeah, right.

You could complain to SLX. I know I will. Their stated policy is not to carry merchandise that violates the TOS.

I'm tempted to buy one of these infernal devices, purely out of self-defense. But on the other hand, I don't want to support developers who come up with stuff like this.

On the one hand, I do not see how this thing could possibly work. When an avatar teleports, it doesn't send any kind of message that I know of, that would be detectable to any other avatar in the area. It'd be different if you were wearing an attachment that had a secret script in it that would transmit your new location after you arrived, but that's a whole different scenario. So maybe this guy's just hoping to fleece a bunch of would-be stalkers out of L$1500 each.

On the other hand maybe there's some new bug or exploit or something that he's found and it really does work... Either way I wouldn't spend the money to find out.

For what it's worth I've sent a message to the SLX staff to bring it to their attention... sadly the last time I pointed out a griefer tool to them, the answer was that it doesn't violate the TOS to own or sell these things, only if you get caught using them. Good thing RL doesn't work like that... Imagine if anthrax or plutonium were available cos it's not illegal to own or sell. Just promise not to use it, mkay?

-Atashi

If you want to deter someone following you and they have this, you would need to TP to one sim (an empty sim) before quickly TP'ing to the sim you don't want followed to. I don't think they can follow you (not sure as I haven't seen the docs for this) if they are not in the sim before you TP out.

I have a radar HUD that just got updated with this feature and yes it can tell you where an avatar teleports to. I'm not sure how this works, but it does. I guess there really is no privacy in SL after all.

Do you get just the sim name or the exact spot they end up at? Can you test going to a place that has a TP spot and see if trying to go to a different spot shows where you tried to go or where SL sent you?

edit: er.. is this issue already understood by LL? If so, ignore me. If not, I'm just looking to help them nail this down and make it go away.

I know that one of the features of a system that I have will allow you to follow an avatar anywhere in SL and follow their chat. You have no idea where they are but you do know who they're talking to, and what they're saying.

What I don't get is why these features are added to systems that are great without them.
The mysti-tool, for instance is absolutely brilliant for a whole range of reasons, but does include a perfect griefers tool that will allow you to 'unseat' people and then launch them into space so violently that it will permanently damage attachments. Why?

It opens up the map to the sim they went to. I just tested it with a friend and it doesn't know the exact coordinates the person teleports to. It only knows what region. This is a feature I could have done without honestly since I do not make a habit of invading people's privacy.

**edit** Can any scripters explain how this is possible?

I'm stumped. Opening the map is easy if you know the region name, but I don't know how to get the region name... My guess at the moment is there's a function that is somehow returning the region name when given the avatar's key. But I'm not aware of any function that does this, so it might be an unintended behavior.

BTW the no-push orbiters like the Mysti "Toss" function are broken in the Havoc-4 beta. They worked due to but of some sort in Havoc-1 and Havoc-4 does not suffer from that. Not sure if LL will leave it 'fixed' in Havoc-4 (thereby breaking existing content) or if they'll cripple that aspect of Havoc-4 in order to preserve the existing content.

-Atashi

I think I have anthrax growing on some leftover Chinese food in my fridge. Do I have to tell the Gov't about it? Or do they already know, because they stuck a mini-cam in my fridge using The Patriot Act as an excuse?

http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=210861

Didn't try it, though.

This script really looks like an exploit of the way llGetObjectDetails (a brand new command) works. The real issue is this commentary on the library script Ricky cited:

"X is only used as a check. You can replace it with Y if you want, just not Z since the grid is laid out XY. The Immense value returned is usually in the +/- thousands, and is the GLOBAL CO-ORDINATE OF THE AVATARS DESTINATION SIM."

To which I say, holy moly, is this really necessary? llObjectDetails does not look to me like its main purpose is to allow people to track avatars. I can enter a feature request for LL to block this functionality, what do you think?

No, but I'm pretty sure one of Osama'a operatives is harvesting it. I'll send you a tin foil hat in-world.

I tried it when I was trying to figure out how they did it and before that link was posted. It didn't return a global coordinate, it was more like a relative one... x was minus 100 or so, but the avatar who's key I used was about 100 meters to my west so that made sense. This was from one island to an adjacent one. Then I went to the mainland and tried from there and it didn't work, i.e. llObjectDetails returned nulls for everything, when there was about 400 sims worth of void space between me and the other avatar.

I agree though -- I'd suggest llObjectDetails should return a null or ZERO_VECTOR for the OBJECT_POSITION when the id is that of an avatar. Or heck, just have the whole function not work at all when used on an avatar.

-Atashi

By all means, yes! Please also post the JIRA ref#, so that we can vote on it.

For what purpose other than stalking was this thing created for?

The description is nothing but "don't do this....it's wrong" nudge nudge wink wink. Puh-lease!

It's currently ranked #5 in sales.

~Ari

I don't see any problem with it working on an avatar within sensor range...

I'm not sure how my HUD is doing this since I do not have access to the scripts, but both times I tested it with my friend I was able to teleport to within 96m of him and not his exact location. The radar did the rest as far as locating him once I went to the same region he went to.

I think first I'll PM strife to look at this thread. S/he will prolly have a better idea as to a solution.

If they're within sensor range you wouldn't need to use this function, since you can get llDetectedPos(integer num) out of the sensor event.

An alternative 'fix' might be to have the returned position be null or ZERO_VECTOR if the id is in a different region. That would prevent the function from operating on avs or objects that are in a different region.

-Atashi

I asked about close to a year ago now and they don't care:

(TOS in this context is SLex's TOS)
(Edited to clarify that my initial email focused on the "privacy invasion" part of their TOS for spy scripts, but apparantly a script has to be able to spy into your living room for that part to apply so it's basically useless)

I hate the argument that it's ok to make it but not ok to use it. How dishonest is that? They may be right. It may be ok to build it but not to use it under the strict terms of the TOS, but it is ethically reprehensible to facilitate its use by allowing it to be sold on their platform. They are, in effect, encouraging its use. If someone builds something and nevr uses it, that's ok, I suppose, but they sell it with the intention that it be used. Otherwise why sell it? For decoration? Why buy it?

There's a difference between normal griefing, which sucks and is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated, and outright stalking. Stalking puts its victims at risk in RL. I'm not terribly concerned that the Patriotic Nigras are going to show up at my office and beat me up, but if I were a woman being stalked, I'd be really scared and upset. Women end up dead because of out of control stalkers.

I have the majority of my Lindens sitting on SLX. They are coming off when I get on tonight, and I won't be buying anything else there. It's not enough to have any effect on SLX at all, but at least I'll be able to look myself in the eye.

To be fair, the response I quoted dates from early December 2006 so there may have been a policy change since then (part of the reason why I quoted it is to find out if someone else has a more recent answer).

If you feel strongly about it I would send off your own message to support and maybe end with a non-threatening way of pointing out that it's important enough for you to consider leaving SLex. That way they have a chance to respond personally, realize that part of their customer base feels strongly about it and you'll be acting on recent and first-hand information .

The response is from several months back, but the item in question is current, isn't it? If stalking and abusiveness is still being tolerated, then any changes that they may have made to their policies are moot.

If you do not like it, vote here: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-774