OK, things are REALLY disappearing...

So, about 3 times so far in my sim over the past 4 months or so, particular objects are disappearing. Like totally disappearing. Repeatedly. Here are the details:

I have a friend who sells her items in my store. A few of the items are no-copy and marked for sale (original), so the buyer purchases the item and then "takes" it into inventory instead of getting a copy of the item.

These items are all of the same type (but different names), in the same general location... they are no-copy, set for sale (original) and set to group. A couples months passed before the first incident and the second; the last incidents were about 3 weeks apart. Each time 2-3 items disappear. So each time these items disappear, my friend is losing 500-900L of investment. >:| She says they are not showing up on her transactions history as being purchased, and I have no reason to believe this is untrue.

The land is set to group and no-build, so if no group tag is worn she wouldn't even be able to rez objects. So the objects aren't being returned...and there's no possibility of me, the sim owner, deleting the objects, because they get sent to Lost and Found folder now - she is not getting them returned to her.

What do you think is happening? Is this a bug I have missed somewhere, or....?

We are finding a workaround... but mostly I just want to know what the hell is happening here. Any ideas?

If the item you are selling is set for sale and it is the original, when someone purchases the item you will no longer have it because thats is the original item you are selling.

You must set it to copy to keep the item or use a second prim and put the contents from the item you are selling into that prim and set it to sell and contents only.

Edit: If the item was for sale and was the original and is no longer there, if your friend checks transaction history then they should see who purchased that product and their inworld L$ balance should of also increased by the value of that item

Are you near your prim limit? If you go over, things may disappear. Are you 100% sure the items aren't being sold and she's getting the money? How does she lose 500-900L? Does she not have originals she can rerez? What happens when you set for copy instead of original?

I think Sera is saying the person is not getting paid for the items so she thinks something is happening other than them being purchased.

I just edited my original post about the money issue.

The way I read it was the fact because it is disappearing she is losing the money as it is no longer there to sell, but perhaps she is not checking her finances to see if she has actually recieved any money.

Lets wait and see what Sera's response is.

hello, no, the items are not showing up in my friend's transaction history... they are disappearing without proof of being paid for. Sorry that was not made clear.

and no, i am nowhere near my prim limit.

no, i am not 100% sure *myself*, but I do trust & believe my friend when she says they are not showing up in her transactions for it.

If the item is no longer there, then we have to assume it has been bought, since it is being sold as the original. But if there is no transaction to reflect that... where is it going?

If she's placing a new instance of an object after each sale, could she sometimes be forgetting to set the price? Maybe she's not recognising the default 10Ls in her account history.

Perhaps when she is setting it to sale, is she also selecting the Allow anyone to Move under the General Tab from the Edit menu.

If the item is moved and the surrounding plots do not have autoreturn set to on then the items could be sitting near by on someone else's land, hence the reason they are not in the Lost and Found Folder.

I would ask your friend to check the Transaction History thoroughly first, bearing in mind it will only show transactions for the last 30 days.

and of course, check the coelesced objects in her folders. Maybe they went to another folder than her lost and found. Is she sure her group tag is on when she rezzes? I'm sure you've thought of all these potential scenarios...

HI -

I'm the friend .

I download all my transactions, and keep the history. No one bought them, and no one 'took' them as an inventory item.

I buy an animation from someone (sold to me individually, and no copy), and attach it to my furniture. I put out 3 of these furniture pieces at one time, and replace each as it is sold. When these mysterious disappearances happen, all 3 items on the floor disappear at once. There's no transaction history, and there is no additional money.

I am very careful in setting all the right flags in the Edit window -- but logically, if I made a mistake one would 'disappear', not all 3 at once.

I know this sounds crazy -- but I swear it is really happening ...

I'm sorry that it's happening, Marra. This is a long shot, but any shot in a storm, eh.

One way of losing objects permanently is when the sim is rolled back to a point in time before the objects were placed. I don't suppose there have been any sim rollbacks lately, have there?

Sounds like it's something to do with the animation scripts...

Do you mind me asking what the animation is, because it isn't difficult to make your own. It would not only save you moeny, but it would overcome the problem too.

Now that's a thought. Could it be that the objects are still there but have gone transparent due to a linked poseball?

The problem is in the script. You are trying to sell a script which is No Copy but Transferrable.

I remember a similar problem when testing some scripts for a friend, when the script was placed in my own prim the prim would delete itself after a short time.

To sell on scripts you need to have the Copy and Transfer permissions.

Well, that part is painfully familiar--isn't it the biggest pain in the butt? What I ended up doing was scripting a kind of homegrown "vendor" that I stocked with individual copies of the items which are given to the buyer's inventory when they "pay" the vendor. I keep just one demo instance rezzed that's not for sale. I did all that just to avoid having to keep for-sale instances around (though the vendor has to stay stocked--but it can have a large stock without using up floorspace), and the problem of folks forgetting to take the item they've purchased.

While that approach might make the problem moot, it says nothing about what could be causing it. I know it's been checked repeatedly that all the right Editor checkboxes are checked, but just to be sure: "Share with Group" is *not* checked, right?

Huh? I'm completely confused by this post... am I the only one?

Let me mention that dozens and dozens of these things have sold successfully with no complaints about disappearing once it's been bought (there was one, but i'm pretty sure it was returned as a coelesced item and was in her inventory).

Really, so this was happening to you too? Your approach is what we are taking now.

And no, share with group isn't checked, it is always just set to group, nothing else.

You want to be confused? Just wait till you read my earlier post.

And no, sorry to confuse: I didn't have the problem you're describing, just the aggravation of having to manually populate a bunch of object instances with an animation, for individual sale. (I never left anything out for sale as original for any length of time, so I've no relevant experience about that.)

Anyway, I don't think a no-transfer script is the problem. A regular no-transfer script would just make the containing object unsellable.* There are some scripts that check that the creator of the prim they're in is the script's author (or a licensee, etc.), and if they don't see what they're looking for, they do something dire like delete themselves, shout unpleasantness about license infringement, or delete the whole containing object. That is extraordinarily unlikely to be what's going on here.
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*Okay, that's slightly oversimplified. They'd be unsellable after they were taken into inventory and re-rezzed. If one just drops a non-transferable item into the contents of a transferable object without taking it back into inventory... hmmm, without testing, I'm not entirely sure what happens, but in any case I can't see how it could make the whole object just delete itself.

[EDIT: Just tried it with my alt. The for-sale-original object into which a no-transfer item has been inserted but not taken into inventory behaves as if it could be purchased: the buyer gets the Buy option in the pie menu, and the "Do you want to buy" dialog (*not* showing the no-transfer contents), but clicking "yes" doesn't actually do anything. No error message, no money transfered, no object ownership change. Once the owner takes the object back into inventory and re-rezzes it, it behaves as expected: it cannot be set for sale.]

my fault, i'm really bad at quoting in forums... the post I was confused by was Larrie's... he seems to be saying that if the script is only transfer, not copy/transfer, that things won't work. which makes no sense to me... maybe i'm just reading it wrong.

most of the scripts in the disappearing objects are full perms to the creator/seller, except for about 3-6 animation scripts which are nocopy/trans.

Sera,

Sorry for that, it was misleading on my part.

Selling No Copy/Trfr just means that the purchaser will only recieve 1 copy and therefore cannot copy once rezzed.

The Permissions system is totally confusing and I know this does not help with your disapearing items, as you have already mentioned, all the permissions were set correctly.

Is it at all possible that one of the scripts has a command that causes itself and the object it is in to self delete, the command is llDie() and will cause everything the script is in to delete itself and will not be sent back to Trash or the Lost and Found Folder.
Also, llSleep or llTimer events in the script will also cause it to delete itself if a time period has been set. I am not sure though with these 2 commands if the Objects are returned to lost and found or Trash.

In the original post, it is said the objects in question are "set to group". Have you checked the group dividends lately? As far as I know, objects for sale set to group would pay to the group, not to the individual who set them out.

I just tested the theory of setting it to group

I set a cube to group, then set for sale and purchased it, the purchase price went to me, not the group

deeding on the other hand, would put the money into the group.

Did you deed it or just set it to group?

Nope, the objects aren't deeded to group. Nor are they shared.

It seems quite unlikely that there is a lldie/sleep/timer command in the scripts, otherwise, we'd be getting IMs from all the people that bought these items previously, complaining of their disappearance.

So far, I feel like I'm talking to Dell about my computer.. lol..

"Is it plugged in?"
Yes.
"Is it turned on?"
Yes.
"Would you please check the power light and make sure it's green?"
Yes.
"Are you sure you're in your own home, on your own computer, and not at someone else's house?"
Yes...
"Ok, you're sure it's turned on, right?"
YES!!!!!!


I do appreciate the responses though Thanks for trying.

Well, not to defend Dell, but probably the reason the questions sound like that is because what you are describing doesn't make a lick of sense. Have you checked your Lost and Found Folder to see if they were returned to you? <== another dumb question.