Rant about camping and bots

Just for S & G's I went out looking at some of the higher places in traffic. Now this is disturbing to me. There is a shoe store out there, beautiful store completely empty and up in the sky she has a dozen or more VIP's in a box all standing around. Now they have it posted no bots and today I saw a notice about giving the campers 24 hours til she shuts things down. the traffic on the sim is 63K in traffic and not a soul in the store. In the description for the location she has a ton of things listed but no teleporter to get to any of the areas that are so called offered in the description. I will be curious to see if it all goes away in the next 24 hours or if the signs are up there just to cover there own butt.
I own a Nude Beach resort and have never faked or tried to cheat my traffic numbers with bots or campers. I have worked my butt off for 3 years to build up my club and beach. I am tired of people using my name in their description to get numbers at there own beach, which has been done on several occasions. I hope LL really does something for all of us honest folks that get their traffic the honest way, instead of getting it by cheating. I will never have campers or bots on my sims. I do agree if they are using bots for other things besides just standing around increasing traffic numbers. But some of these people are just going way overboard. If your going to have camping have it in the area where your shops are not 200M up in the sky hidden from the store below in a small box where its just a big cluster. What happened to getting traffic by honesty and hard work?

I have been accused of "stomping off in huff" when I stated in the forums I wouldn't shop at places that used a lot of bots like this.

But I don't have a stomp AO, so I'm not sure what that meant. I don't shop at [You Will Be Assimilated]-Mart or that ubiquitous Scottish food place in real life either, but there is no stomping or huff involved. I just enjoy the small shop experience.

Actually I think it would be fun to leave all the bots on the ground. Then maybe you could push them around and make 'bot pictures, and even have a bot LED art contest. Might be a bigger "draw" than traffic numbers.

For an explanation of what I mean by "Bot LED art", check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3qvJgY9XQI

Just curious...

The bots don't show as people on the mini-map? I thought bots were basically idling accounts.


Is this why I enter some clubs and see lots of green dots on my mini-map that I can't find when I explore around? I've been wondering if I was just having a major lag failure or 'newb can't use the interface' moment...

I see the warning of this eventually being enforced sure hasn't stopped the trash from doing it.Brand new club opened on may 21 and has a box 1996 Meters above it loaded with bots clubs names Reflexion Night Club Owned By a Meli,It's comes as no suprise to me seeing as the club she worked for Twisted Shemales still has them but now instead of a box hidden in the sky they have them parked on a camper bench making it appear like they are paying campers.This is just sad i think this kid glove warning is ridicules and i think a warning and a removal of search is more appopriate and then a sl ban if it happens again.

just remember a majority of the people who use sl don't read the blogs or the forums and have no clue. It's going to take LL a while to catch up. Case in point, I was in a friend's club the other day. Just next door a HUGE camping place has just gone up in the past few days. The owner of the place came over to see if my friend wanted to open a doorway from his club onto the camping place (I have no idea why). So I asked the guy if he was worried at all about having all the campers, since LL has nerfed camping. He had no idea what I was talking about. Then he told me that LL has no way of detecting campers or traffic bots. I was like, gee, I just look at my map.....where I see a tower of green dots would be a good place to check.

I've wanted to see a coordinated multi-avatar Busby Berkely style swim and dance routine in SL for years; this would be perfect for some bots to do.

Example at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=707VxB-ek4Q (It starts a bit slow but it gets pretty far out before it's over.)

LL could find bots easily.

First method would be an IP check on people - if too many of the same or close IP numbers are clustered together, high probability of something funny, take a look.

Then start interacting with them - put tracers on the accounts, etc.
- An actual 'chat with them' test is probably not even needed most of the time.

Chances are, unless you're a company doing a meeting within SL, there's not much reason for there to be such a cluster. And if you are such a company, chances are LL knows about you and doesn't even need to raise an eyebrow when they see your stack of green dots pop in at location X.

That is the answer to my earlier question right? When I see all those green dots on my mini-map that I can't seem to find by exploring - those are probably skybox bots?

I really hope they do nerf bots and campers hard - I'm getting very frustrated at having such a useless search engine. I go to a club because I want people to chat with, not little pose balls to stand on and sit there by myself wondering where all the green dots I see are... O.o

"I wouldn't shop at places that used a lot of bots like this."

Neither do I and I don't. It's an immediate turn off. It's sad because there have been some nice designs sacrificed for lazy promotion. Of course there are legitimate reasons to use bots. But to cheat the search results on SL is just lame.

i'll write my comments here again, since its another Bot type thread!


Part of the problem is that a lot of people still don't know about the camping bans.
It appeared as a Blog....and was quickly buried under other main feature blogs.
I'm sorry...but that's not the way to impliment an official LL Policy....that kind of thing needs to be on the Login screen with multiple language options too.

A blog might be read by a thousand or two ....it's still only a fraction of it's user base. I'm betting that many Bot runners and avie campers are totally unaware of this policy.

Example
----------

Say you're a Turkish Club owner that can't speak English....how do you stay informed with a LL blog deeply hidden and only written in English?

The only way they'll stay informed....is when someone eventualy filters that information to the them i.e Club visitor.....but say the Club plays Turkish music and really only caters to the SL Turkish community....there might be a long wait until that awareness becomes apparent.

Mm yes, definately, and I'd like to see it taken a little further for such an important change in the rules. Perhaps a window that also needs to be "clicked as read" on the log-on screen, before they let you through the gate.

The traffic bots are still sitting aloft in their little boxes as if nothing has changed, and most original creators are still hidden in Search behind the mundane mega-malls full of dated products. Some of these still have no visible shoppers, and traffic in the 90,000's.

Its been really frustrating as a newcomer to SL looking for original and creative content.

I've actually had to bypass everything in my search pages that have had over 10k (traffic) numbers. Which sucks. because if there is a legitimate creator out there that has high numbers naturally....they're seriously missing out.

I cannot wait for the campers and bots to disappear completely. I have also worked very hard to build my business up and brand myself and gather together a large group to cater too, and recently a few specific competitors are driving themselves way up in the search using bots and also carving up their region into a million pieces and spamming the land description with key words.

This stuff is so desperate and I cannot wait to see what happens when they cannot use these tactics anymore.

I really do think that gaming the search by carving up land and spamming the land description with single keywords is JUST as malicious as using bots.

This (when the keywords really have nothing to do with the business)

Yeah, several places I went to in my first day or two were those carved up keyword loaded places. Overall, I got some limited utility out of them, but limited is an operative word here. Still need to remove some of those spam places from my picks / landmarks list - having them there makes me look like such a newbie...

I really want to change the places I hang out in, but its very hard to do so as I'm finding so much search gaming going on with the set of interests I'm trying to pursue. A few external blog sites have led me into related content, but its still circling a target rather than hitting it.

Are there foreign language versions of the SL blog or website? I tried a few non-US domains (tried switching .com for the korean setup for example) but so far it hasn't led me anywhere that seems SL related.

This may sound jaded, but I am a realist at heart. Sadly, the moment power or money is involved, scruples fly out the window. If people cannot garner attention one way, they will find another. One can either tough it out (doing what one can), or descend to their level. And very sadly, the majority of business owners in SL are unscrupulous.

I will never trust that LL will resolve any situation in SL that could put an end to underhanded tactics. They simply won't. Griefing could be minimized tomorrow if LL charged a nominal fee for creating an account. As others have pointed out, camping and unfair bot usage could also be put to an end.

But we must ever remember that LL does not view SL the way we do. For them it's all about bottom line. Until they are presented with proof that XYZ will have a substantial negative impact on their bottom line, they will do no more than spin and pull the wool over our eyes.

On an upside, I do see a number of business owners doing well or thriving and they have not resorted to base tactics. There is hope... it's just slim.

But this is also unfair even if you use a single word that is relevant...but you split your land into a million pieces and literally fill the land description and land title with this single word. The reason is that your land will come up enough times on the front page that it will bully all other competitors off the front page unless they are able to do the same as you.

It gets worse if you are a fairly unique product, with few competitors because the person using this spam the land method can completely dominate those few search words that are used and seem like the only option available.

Example

Say are a sports sim, and your sport is cricket. You run your league off a modest sized parcel, and have a nice slick description in the land title and land description...you know...sentences and paragraphs actually describing what it is you do.

Now some other person decides this is a good idea, and decides to make a rival league...but they will run it from a whole region. When they see they cannot get to the top of the search by using a properly laid out and descriptive land description, they decide to cut their huge parcel up into as many plots as possible..and name the pieces things like this.

Parcel 1 - CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET CRICKET

Parcel 2 - CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT CRICKET BAT

Parcel 3. FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET FREE CRICKET

You get the idea

All these parcels jump to the top 5 positions in search, and anyone searching for Cricket related items will surely go there. You couple this practice with bots and other traffic aids, and it is pretty much impossible to compete to compete with unless you stoop to this level also.

Define unscrupulous? Because I really wonder.

To give you the reason I ask this: Yes I am a business owner. One that was recently on #3 when searching for 'low prim furniture'. Dropped 2 places because of people spamming keywords (how many times one can type 'low prim furniture' in a parcel description.

Now I can react 2 ways: Since apparently it pays of to use keyword spamming, I can try and regain my former position. Or, I can stop my efforts. If I join in the keyword spamming, am I unscrupulous according to you?

One more thing about search: Business owners want to sell stuff. For that we need visitors. And in order to get visitors, having a good search ranking helps a lot. So we can do 3 things basically:
- generate traffic for Places Search
- spend lindens for Classified Search
- optimize our html page for Search All.

Well generating traffic is all about bots and camping, there is no way to get noticed without it in places search.
When I want to rank in the furniture business with a classified, we talk about 100k classifieds. Go figure.
Optimizing html page means apparently keyword spamming at this moment.

Search is my main tool to get noticed, so probably I will join the keyword thing. Only with keywords that relate to my stuf of course, but nevertheless I dislike it. But it is either that, or slowly drop in ranking. And THAT is what happens all the time; happened with traffic, happened with picks, happens with keywords: As soon as your competition finds out about it and push you away, you can either fight back or give up. Well, I am sure as hell not going to give up.

There is no need to get defensive unless you feel you have done something wrong.

Unscrupulous in my little world consists of using keywords that have no association with what is being offered. Unscrupulous is "gaming" traffic with avatars that are not shopping (especially if they consume more than their share of system resources or are so many that one cannot actually get into the sim to shop!). Unscrupulous is misusing keywords on parcels and items that either do not represent what is being sold or that is "spammed" as you say.

Anyone who shifts gears and "joins the unscrupulous", yes, becomes unscrupulous in my eyes. But what does my opinion matter to you or anyone else for that matter? It is, simply, my opinion, and I am just one teeny voice in SL. While I have a fair amount of money I do not mind spending in SL, and although spend it judiciously, depriving those I perceive as unscrupulous USD10 to USD100 per month or every few months (depending on what I'm buying at any given time) is hardly going ot make a dent in their profits.

Personally, I don't ascribe to search rankings. My searches tend to be so narrow in focus that I will visit up to 50 shops (seldom do my search results yield more than that) looking for just the right thing. If someone has an effective keyword list, and my search hits on that, they'll show up and I will visit them regardless of where they fall in the list. Then again, perhaps I am the only who searches this way and then really, what does it matter to you?

As for your final statement... join them or give up? Yes, you could give up, but that would be silly. Or build such amazing products that they become number one on their own. Build so well as to be the talk of the town and that people will recommend you.

But in the end, my opinion really matters not. My respect and support matters not. I am one person, albeit a little vocal at times. People simply are and will do as they will do.

Hiya Elric,

Not at all meant defensive, more curiosity in fact. And you clarified, thanks!

The fact that if I join the keyword spamming merchants (keywords about what I sell, not false information), would make me unscrupulous in your eyes indeed does not matter to me. As long as you voice your opinion without insults, you have as much as a right as anyone

Of course you can be right with your statement about building so well that I will be the talk of the town, though these days that is very hard if not impossible. SL simply got too big. Established merchants are hard if not impossible to beat just be word of mouth.
Plus I do not build so well I will become the talk of the town. I do create good products and my customers can vouch for that. My scripting does add value to my products as well. Plus I am selling it for friendly prices. But that will not make me the talk of the town. There are very few builders that good I suppose. Still I have a profitable business (2 in fact). And I did not investigate so much time in investigating search, to have my results pushed aside by people who just repeat the same word all over again.

Take care, Marcel

I did not realise LL had changed ALL search again.....so massive Keyword spamming rewards the instigagtor.......that will screw the whole ALL search.

I was partially worried about the banning of bots.....because now all the Gamers will come over to All Search and game that too......it wasn't so bad before.

I'm glad my view wasn't taken an as insult because I'm merely stating my belief, which may not be shared by others.

LL certainly does little to aid in the growth of business in SL, which is unfortunate -- which is why we have people resorting to the tactics they are.

Hopefully one day LL will effect change for the better of all, but I won't be holding my breath.

That must have been a trip on the big screen. Hope they had access to Dramamine.

Looks like it's "dog,dog,dog,dog" eats "dog,dog", then !



eh...... LMAO?

Yeah, it sucks.


There are a number of websites that feature fun, interesting places: a bit of research helps with anything in SL.

http://npirl.blogspot.com/

I also start at the last page and work forwards, looking for those small-and-honest businesses, after learning early on that the first page was full of rubbish, more likely than not. Plus, the first few big shops listed never seemed to actually sell what I was looking for anyway, despite claims to be the expert in all areas.

Love the diversity in what is available in sl, yet there is usually no diversity in what these largest busineses offer.

Blogs are a good way to find new designers, too. Or join some inworld designers groups, and see what's on offer. I know this works for fashion, and assume that, say, furniture-makers have similar systems?