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US to Legalize Online Gambling?

Johan Laurasia
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05-06-2009 11:29
Just saw a story about this on Fox News:

This via AFP:
From: someone

US congressman moves to legalize online gambling

2 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) — A US congressman unveiled legislation on Wednesday which would legalize online gambling in the United States.

Representative Barney Frank, a Democrat from Massachusetts, said the bill would "enable Americans to bet online and put an end to an inappropriate interference with their personal freedom."

It would give the Treasury Department the authority to establish regulations and a licensing system for Internet gambling operators that would allow them to take bets from individuals in the United States.

Frank, who chairs the House Financial Services Committee, said Internet gambling operators would have to protect against underage gambling, compulsive gambling, money laundering and fraud or risk having their licenses revoked.

He said he planned to introduce separate legislation seeking to delay implementation of the bill which effectively banned online gambling in the United States, the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA).

"The legislation will stop federal regulators from enforcing the UIGEA until Congress has had a chance to decide national policy," Frank said.

UIGEA, enacted in 2006, bans US banks, credit card and financial companies from handling Internet gambling bets and has been the target of fierce criticism that it would be an enforcement nightmare.

It is set to go into effect December 1, 2009.

UIGEA specifically prohibits gambling businesses from knowingly accepting payments made through credit cards, electronic funds transfers and checks.

The US ban on Internet gambling, enacted by the Bush administration and a Republican-controlled Congress, has been challenged as an unfair trade restriction at the World Trade Organization.

The European Commission has also launched an investigation into whether the US gambling ban discriminated against EU firms.

The head of US gambling website Youbet.com welcomed Frank's legislation on Wednesday.

"Chairman Frank's bill is a welcome and realistic approach to US Internet gambling," Youbet.com chief executive Michael Brodsky said in a statement.

"Illegal US online gambling is a growing multi-billion dollar industry," he said. "Chairman Frank's bill recognizes those realities and would bring this underground activity into the light ... providing much-needed revenue in these difficult economic times."

Betting on horse races is currently the only online gambling allowed in the United States.


Personally, I have no respect for Barney Frank, as he's one of the idiots that got us into the financial mess we're in... however, I do agree with this move.

Comments?
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Desmond Shang
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05-06-2009 12:12
If I could lawfully and fairly open a casino here, I would consider it.

A few things would still make me hesitate.

One, that it's nearly impossible to trust a script because you can't see inside it. Any script can be rigged and without a gaming commission to check things out, there's gonna be trouble.

And I sure can't afford to get licenced or whatever it takes. Regardless of the US Feds, the states want and will get their cut.

Finally, there's a reason certain things like prostitution and gambling have been banned in a lot of places. It's not the morality necessarily but the host of other issues that come along with them. I'm not sure I'm ready to deal with the knock~on effects, as I'm involved with a fairly large community here and can see potential problems and conflicts of interest.
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Conifer Dada
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Join date: 6 Oct 2006
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05-06-2009 12:18
Online gambling is fine for those who want to do it, but please NOT in SL! Why do I say that? Not because of any moral concerns about people wasting their money or time, but because SL is a better place without all those ugly casinos full of zombified gamblers and sim-lagging casino campers!
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Briana Dawson
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05-06-2009 12:31
From: Desmond Shang

Finally, there's a reason certain things like prostitution and gambling have been banned in a lot of places. It's not the morality necessarily but the host of other issues that come along with them. I'm not sure I'm ready to deal with the knock~on effects, as I'm involved with a fairly large community here and can see potential problems and conflicts of interest.


Awwwww... No Victorian style brothels or Steampunk Gambling Riverboats in Caledon!
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Briana Dawson
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05-06-2009 12:32
If Gambling is allowed in SL I know just who to get my new Casino set up from. :p
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Brenda Connolly
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05-06-2009 12:39
From: Conifer Dada
Online gambling is fine for those who want to do it, but please NOT in SL! Why do I say that? Not because of any moral concerns about people wasting their money or time, but because SL is a better place without all those ugly casinos full of zombified gamblers and sim-lagging casino campers!


Well the solution is simple. Give gambling businesses a continent if their own, that only people who wish to gamble can access. Maybe some more unheard voices will pop into a Linden's head and ask for it.
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Rime Wirsing
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05-06-2009 12:47
Google this
Kidd Krasner
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05-06-2009 12:53
From: Desmond Shang

One, that it's nearly impossible to trust a script because you can't see inside it. Any script can be rigged and without a gaming commission to check things out, there's gonna be trouble.

How could that problem be solved? Should we have some sort of signature authority, so that anyone could confirm that a given object had been approved and reviewed by a reliable third party?
Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
05-06-2009 12:57
From: Conifer Dada
Online gambling is fine for those who want to do it, but please NOT in SL! Why do I say that? Not because of any moral concerns about people wasting their money or time, but because SL is a better place without all those ugly casinos full of zombified gamblers and sim-lagging casino campers!


A better one, but a duller one. And gambling was a major source of revenue, the economic stats following the gambling ban clearly show that.

I never put L$1 into an SL gambling machine, and I think the people who did, did so without knowing or caring what the odds against them were. Nevertheless, I would applaud should gambling return to the grid.
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Johan Laurasia
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05-06-2009 13:01
From: Desmond Shang
If I could lawfully and fairly open a casino here, I would consider it.

A few things would still make me hesitate.

One, that it's nearly impossible to trust a script because you can't see inside it. Any script can be rigged and without a gaming commission to check things out, there's gonna be trouble.

And I sure can't afford to get licenced or whatever it takes. Regardless of the US Feds, the states want and will get their cut.

Finally, there's a reason certain things like prostitution and gambling have been banned in a lot of places. It's not the morality necessarily but the host of other issues that come along with them. I'm not sure I'm ready to deal with the knock~on effects, as I'm involved with a fairly large community here and can see potential problems and conflicts of interest.


Yes, scripts can be rigged.. but when gambling was here before, there were many top gambling machine creators, who were trusted, and I had not problems gambling on those machines. It was in the best interest of the gaming machine creators to create honest scripts, as people wouldn't gamble on them unless they were above board. It wasn't really an issue before, as a matter of fact, it was more the other way around. There were people out there who had figured out glitches, and would take advantage of that. For example, there was a blackjack machine that always would reset if you left the region and came back, and it always hit on the first hand, so people would TP in, bet huge on the first hand, TP out, and repeat. Also, there was a game, where there was a bug, and if you let it time out after winning, it would pay you, and you could then cash out, and it would pay you again, which wound up costing alot of casino owners alot of money. The creator fixed the problem, and had even paid back alot (but not all) casino owners the money they had lost. Overall though, gambling machine creators were a good lot that made quality games that were fully tested and even came with odds charts. Let's keep our fingers crossed that the proposal in Congress goes through and gambling can return to SL. Although, your suggestion of a gaming commission is a good idea anyways.
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Johan Laurasia
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05-06-2009 13:04
From: Brenda Connolly
Well the solution is simple. Give gambling businesses a continent if their own, that only people who wish to gamble can access. Maybe some more unheard voices will pop into a Linden's head and ask for it.


That's what I was thinking too.. at first, but then it dawned on me that gambling is an adult activity, and would probably best be simply restricted to the adult continent. Everyone seems to equate 'sex' with 'adult' but that's not the case. Adult means adult activities, which includes, but is not limited to sex related activities.
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Isabelle Frangilli
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05-06-2009 13:07
From: Johan Laurasia
Just saw a story about this on Fox News:Personally, I have no respect for Barney Frank, as he's one of the idiots that got us into the financial mess we're in...
Ah, that Rethuglican lie comes out in the strangest places. Sorry, to go off topic, but if you want the truth, check this out:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200901080014

"Barney Frank has advocated for policies that emphasize low-income home rentals as opposed to homeownership and supported legislation to strengthen oversight over Fannie and Freddie."

The greedy, deregulated banking industry can take the blame, as well as everyone who bought into the lie that real estate prices can only go up, up, up.
Conifer Dada
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05-06-2009 13:12
From: someone
Well the solution is simple. Give gambling businesses a continent if their own


Sounds a perfectly reasonable compromise. The reason I'm prejudiced against gambling in SL is because there was a huge and extremely ugly casino that was largely empty across the road from my home.

I think there was little incentive for casino builders to make their places look nice since the clientele went there to gamble and weren't interested in its appearance. With dance clubs the visitors do want a nice looking environment. Not all clubs look nice but usually the owners at least attempt to make something attractive even if they fail!
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LittleMe Jewell
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05-06-2009 13:15
Legalizing online gambling has come up in the House and Senate before, but never made it very far. By the time it makes it thru all of the committees and actually wins thru both the House and the Senate and then gets signed in or veto overridden, well.... who knows what SL will be like when that day comes.
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Brenda Connolly
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05-06-2009 13:20
From: Conifer Dada
Sounds a perfectly reasonable compromise. The reason I'm prejudiced against gambling in SL is because there was a huge and extremely ugly casino that was largely empty across the road from my home.

I feel your pain. When I had Mainland back in the day, I was surrounded by a casino's empty land. The owner would not sell me any of it for a reasonable price, so I dumped it and went to an Estate.

Even though it is an Adult activity, throwing it alongside sex clubs may not be enough. Gambing is far more socially acceptable than open sex for a lot of people, one just need look at a church casino night or bingo game.

If the legal hurdles are cleared, I see no reason not to bring it back. Although, unless there was some accountability to ensure games weren't rigged, I doubt I would partake.
I prefer RL casinos.
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Brenda Connolly
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05-06-2009 13:25
From: LittleMe Jewell
Legalizing online gambling has come up in the House and Senate before, but never made it very far. By the time it makes it thru all of the committees and actually wins thru both the House and the Senate and then gets signed in or veto overridden, well.... who knows what SL will be like when that day comes.


Yeah, but we are so broke here, I'm sure the idea of another source of tax revenue will push it through. However, I wouldn't be surprised if only the big RL Gaming Interests get the green light. I imagine the G will set up all sorts of hoops to jump through so the small operators, especially off shore, would be shut out.
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Lord Sullivan
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05-06-2009 13:32
From: Brenda Connolly
Well the solution is simple. Give gambling businesses a continent if their own, that only people who wish to gamble can access. Maybe some more unheard voices will pop into a Linden's head and ask for it.


I agree give them land on their own us reputable smut pedlar's don't want to be mixed up with the gambling low life and casino owners and their lag infested casinos ;)

I thought Schizophrenia was a pre requisite for employment with LL :)
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Lindal Kidd
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05-06-2009 14:20
From: Isabelle Frangilli
...The greedy, deregulated banking industry can take the blame, as well as everyone who bought into the lie that real estate prices can only go up, up, up.


I don't know about Mr. Frank, but THIS is actually not correct. The banking industry was prodded into making questionable loans by government regulations, especially ones that established quotas. If a bank doesn't make enough loans to poor/minority customers, they are subject to government audits and fines. These regulations are still in place, and the few banks that actually DO make loans only to people that are able to repay are finding themselves pressured to take risks they don't want to.

The banks got around this by selling the risk...laundering the loans so that their books looked a lot better than they actually were.

The fact is that the banking industry is NOT deregulated. Had it not been manipulated for social purposes by the government, market forces would most likely have kept us from getting in the fix we are in now. Yet government's solution is...even MORE regulation.

Politicians do not know how to run banks or car companies, and they should keep their meddling fingers to themselves.
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Chris Norse
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05-06-2009 14:21
What Lindal said.
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Oryx Tempel
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05-06-2009 14:31
From: Desmond Shang

Finally, there's a reason certain things like prostitution and gambling have been banned in a lot of places. It's not the morality necessarily but the host of other issues that come along with them.

Those other issues are usually drugs and violence, both of which are technically impossible in SL.

I say more power to the penny, in this case. I'd like to see gambling return.
Brenda Connolly
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05-06-2009 14:34
From: Lindal Kidd
I don't know about Mr. Frank, but THIS is actually not correct. The banking industry was prodded into making questionable loans by government regulations, especially ones that established quotas. If a bank doesn't make enough loans to poor/minority customers, they are subject to government audits and fines. These regulations are still in place, and the few banks that actually DO make loans only to people that are able to repay are finding themselves pressured to take risks they don't want to.

The banks got around this by selling the risk...laundering the loans so that their books looked a lot better than they actually were.

The fact is that the banking industry is NOT deregulated. Had it not been manipulated for social purposes by the government, market forces would most likely have kept us from getting in the fix we are in now. Yet government's solution is...even MORE regulation.

Politicians do not know how to run banks or car companies, and they should keep their meddling fingers to themselves.


Give people loans they can't possibly repay, and fudge the books to hide the toxic assets.
Add in Mark to Market reporting standards, and you have a recipe for disaster.

It goes back through the Bush years to Clinton's gang, so yes there are plenty of people to blame. But the current gang of thieves are responsible for situations such as the Bank of America/Merril Lynch caper, where BoA execs were told by The Fed that they WIll take on Merrill Lynch or they WOULD be replaced.

The Government has longbeen tampering with the banking system in this country, from Nixon going off the Gold Standard and beyond. It's just now they are more upfront about it. These bank robbers don't wear masks.
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Amity Slade
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05-06-2009 15:23
From: Lindal Kidd
I don't know about Mr. Frank, but THIS is actually not correct. The banking industry was prodded into making questionable loans by government regulations, especially ones that established quotas.


The banks were forced into racking up tons of profit on fees through volume. It had nothing to do with the ton of money the banks were making by pushing out the loans. And brokers routinely falsified income on loan applications, making it look like applicants were much wealthier than they were, because this somehow made it look like they were loaning to poor people. And investors didn't check into the loans they were buying because- well, there must have been some regulation that said they had to buy the loans blindly.
Amity Slade
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05-06-2009 15:29
From: LittleMe Jewell
Legalizing online gambling has come up in the House and Senate before, but never made it very far. By the time it makes it thru all of the committees and actually wins thru both the House and the Senate and then gets signed in or veto overridden, well.... who knows what SL will be like when that day comes.


And there is no reason to think that the political climate has changed such that legalization will pass through this time when it has failed every time in the past.

The states that want to keep gambling outlawed for moral reasons don't want the federal government going over their heads on the issue. The states that have approved of gambling want to keep the tax revenues from gambling, rather than letting other states compete for the revenue. And no one wants to see gambling revenue leave the U.S.- it's a lot harder to track the flow of money over the internet than at a real, physical slot machine.

Even if it did pass, it would be regulated, and the feds would regulate it to reward the industries that supported the legislation and funded political campaigns. That means the regulations would probably favor established casinos, and make it hard for anyone else to get into the game. Even if legalized, not everyone would be able to open a casino, and I bet SL and its residents would be regulated out of opening casinos.
Johan Laurasia
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05-06-2009 17:27
From: Isabelle Frangilli
Ah, that Rethuglican lie comes out in the strangest places. Sorry, to go off topic, but if you want the truth, check this out:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200901080014

"Barney Frank has advocated for policies that emphasize low-income home rentals as opposed to homeownership and supported legislation to strengthen oversight over Fannie and Freddie."

The greedy, deregulated banking industry can take the blame, as well as everyone who bought into the lie that real estate prices can only go up, up, up.


You're quoting Media Matters.org? You've got to be kidding me. Media Matters and Move On.org are the biggest left wing lie and mud slinging machines out there. I feel sorry for you if you trust those mud slinging organizations, and my original post was about gambling, not Barney Frank. And regardless, I have a right to my feelings about Congressman Frank, and base my decision on more than Rush Limbaugh.
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Johan Laurasia
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05-06-2009 17:31
From: Lindal Kidd
I don't know about Mr. Frank, but THIS is actually not correct. The banking industry was prodded into making questionable loans by government regulations, especially ones that established quotas. If a bank doesn't make enough loans to poor/minority customers, they are subject to government audits and fines. These regulations are still in place, and the few banks that actually DO make loans only to people that are able to repay are finding themselves pressured to take risks they don't want to.

The banks got around this by selling the risk...laundering the loans so that their books looked a lot better than they actually were.

The fact is that the banking industry is NOT deregulated. Had it not been manipulated for social purposes by the government, market forces would most likely have kept us from getting in the fix we are in now. Yet government's solution is...even MORE regulation.

Politicians do not know how to run banks or car companies, and they should keep their meddling fingers to themselves.



I totally agree... as I drag the topic back to the original topic...
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