By like minded I mean BDSM without nonsense.
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Making Lindens as a Club Owner |
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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01-07-2008 18:40
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." --Willy Wonka _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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01-07-2008 18:42
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." --Willy Wonka I wonder if BDSM can even exist in SL without nonsense. Its like flame and oxygen. SLmarriage and drama. |
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Mitzy Shino
can i haz ur stufz?
Join date: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 409
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01-07-2008 18:43
Mitzy, your point #7 is the case for ANYWHERE I think. If somewhere expands into something else outside it's borders (for instance creates a garden and other things which don't HAVE to leech numbers ... or just look pretty from the original place's viewpoint) then that is ok. Anywhere I have known which was successful and then tried to expand invariably becomes less pleasing and often just loses it's original vibe. And becomes another mall in the process. Err 6 you mean, the expanding point? It can apply to the same idea just bigger. Quite a while back I worked at Arsheba at the time it was the #1 club in the top list, they decided to expand, an entire sim for it, new build etc. It looked great, but it didnt have the same feel, and now....Arsheba is a tiny little club sharing a sim again, only its worse than it was, I pop in occasionally and at times there are 5 people in the place, 2 of them being dancers. |
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Mitzy Shino
can i haz ur stufz?
Join date: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 409
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01-07-2008 18:46
I wonder if BDSM can even exist in SL without nonsense. Its like flame and oxygen. SLmarriage and drama. I believe aspects of it can, I more a D/s, with a little B thrown in, type of gal. D/s can exist here without nonsense. |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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01-07-2008 18:49
I believe aspects of it can, I more a D/s, with a little B thrown in, type of gal. D/s can exist here without nonsense.  who knew.  |
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Theo Kline
(???)
Join date: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 224
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01-07-2008 18:56
a. Small cover charge (25L or so). I have heard two sides of this debate. One a cover charge drives ppl away, OTOH if you have a hot DJ or popular events guests won't mind paying if theres ways for them to make a return in the cover (xploder, contests, door prizes etc) In RL, my friends and I refuse to go to a bars/clubs that have a cover charge as we always show up in a chauffeured party bus/van and always spend a ton on the bar tab. In SL i would make an exception. 25L is a drop in the hat to most, just make sure the entertainment dj etc is worth a repeat visit for a cover charge. b. have a scripter/modeler create unique 'drinks' for your bar (obviously using ones already available would be pointless) for 10L each or so. After 15mins or so they 'empty' and self destroy. I think that's a neat idea too. I think the novelty of it would wear out quick with most regular visitors. Maybe at L$5 you might make up for it in quantity but don't expect any real income from it . Always remember to have your staff make sure they say hello to every person that walks in the door. (Seen to many posts about "unfriendly clubs", "i was ignored but the person after me was greeted"  |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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01-07-2008 18:58
c. Take a cut from the xploder can you even have a xploder anymore? |
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Argos Hawks
Eclectically Esoteric
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,037
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01-07-2008 19:26
can you even have a xploder anymore? The old random ones fall under the ban, but there's a new vote based one that's ok. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-07-2008 20:19
Nope. Some links work if you type img instead of url in the [] Oh. Oh well. coco _____________________
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Drivin Sideways
100% recycled pixels
Join date: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 502
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01-07-2008 22:35
I'm really stacking up ways that SL is lust like FL!
1. Romantic relationships are far more drama/pain/hassle than advantage/pleasure/support. 2. The government will do nothing about crime. When victims finally realize that no one will defend them they begin to defend themselves, at which point the government steps in and punishes the victims. and now a third! : 3. Owning/running a club is a great way to make a small fortune... ... out of a large fortune. _____________________
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Anya Ristow
Vengeance Studio
Join date: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 1,243
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01-07-2008 23:00
Clubs need to figure out how to make themselves better social spaces. Most seem to be places where people park their avatars while they do other things.
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Kelli May
karmakanic
Join date: 7 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,135
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01-08-2008 04:54
I think the main problem with trying to make money from SL clubs are the differences between SL & RL. RL clubs can sell drinks to boost their profits, in SL, people often don't even bother with drinks, let alone pay for them. Most people accept the idea of a cover at RL clubs. In SL, people seem to expect to be paid to go to a club (camping, competiton prizes etc). RL clubs offer something you can't get at home, but a lot of SL clubbing experiences can be duplicated with a danceball and access to a music stream. And one big problem that discourages attendance: A full RL club invariably has a good atmosphere; a full SL club has lag and chatspam.
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Do worried sheep have nervous ticks?
Karmakanix@Sin-Labs http://slurl.com/secondlife/Circe/170/197/504 Karmakanix on SLX http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=61062 |
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
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01-08-2008 07:52
Other suggestions is a Donation Box where visitors and indeed regulars could donate to help offset the club costs, or negotiate for the club to receive a percentage of staff tips. Donation box were deff going to do, I like that idea. Put those funds to rent. I let my staff keep 100% tips. Once we get established and they were pulling in good linden consistently then perhaps we'll take 10%. But right now just getting off the ground seems... pointless. I have 2 dancers at night, they seem to make around 500-1200 for a full night. Say 800 average. Thats 160L a night at best for me. Does not seem worth it vs. staff retention which I need right now. Loyal, happy regular staff is critial to me at this point. I say this because I 'hired' over a dozen staff pre-open and opening day 5 showed up. (Thankfully DJs are a lot less flakey then dancers and hosts! LOL) So I rather retain those that are there now and give them the tools to succeed. As, long term, its for their and my benefit. _____________________
Strauss Ulderport
-------------------- Owner of NightHallows Lair Industrial, Goth, Darkwave & Techno music venue www.nighthallowslair.net |
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
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01-08-2008 07:55
I used to dance at a very popular nightclub in my early days (it's true!). The owner spent a lot, and even having an attached mall, never did well. It was a huge money pit. He ended up ditching the club and kept the mall, and does far better. So in short, clubs tend to be a money drain.Seems you and others are misunderstanding me. I am NOT asking how to I turn club penumbra into a money making enterprise. I AM asking for ideas on how to help offset the losses. I clarify I KNOW and EXPECT to be in the red on this. I simply want ideas on how to best lessen it as best as I can _____________________
Strauss Ulderport
-------------------- Owner of NightHallows Lair Industrial, Goth, Darkwave & Techno music venue www.nighthallowslair.net |
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Lillyana Hoffman
DJ/Designer/Flirt
Join date: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 166
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01-08-2008 08:08
Fact of the matter is, there are too many clubs in SL as it is and unless you are offering something completely different, you will most likely spend more money than you take in.
Well come to think of it, you will probably do that anyway. I owned a club for a while, and tho it looked pretty no one ever came to it...I don't know why, but its closed now so thats in the past for me. I also know the club owners I work for now, very well, and it's hard to own one. Even if you have the guests, get donations, and have a sploder. As for where I work atm as DJ manager...they take out 10% of dj tips and the hosts tips for stream and club costs..thats really not much at all, but it does help a bit. Anyway good luck. Lilly |
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
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01-08-2008 08:11
I can't imagine anyone paying to go to a club in SL no matter how good the DJ or musician. There's just too much competition. You could try the drink idea, but I doubt it would work. Just my opinion. I wouldn't buy one. We eliminated bartenders altogether in our club and no one misses them. The club I work does take a small percentage out of the popper. It's not much but helps just a little. Donation does get used especially if we pimp it out regularly throughout our events. Not as much as we'd like but it helps. If you really want to offset the cost of the club, I haven't seen anything yet that works other than vendors and even they usually don't. Clubs cost money and are for fun typically, not for profit. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it would be the great exception rather than the rule. You think renting out some wall space for ads (as long as they are not plastered everywhere) would be good? Perhaps 4 or so of those pic frames that can scroll though various images? That sounds like a interesting proposal. Perhaps talk to some of the bigger gothy clothing and related vendors and see if they would be interested in renting said space. what do you think would be a reasonable weekly rent for displaying such? _____________________
Strauss Ulderport
-------------------- Owner of NightHallows Lair Industrial, Goth, Darkwave & Techno music venue www.nighthallowslair.net |
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
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01-08-2008 08:19
Fact of the matter is, there are too many clubs in SL as it is and unless you are offering something completely different, you will most likely spend more money than you take in. Well come to think of it, you will probably do that anyway. I owned a club for a while, and tho it looked pretty no one ever came to it...I don't know why, but its closed now so thats in the past for me. I also know the club owners I work for now, very well, and it's hard to own one. Even if you have the guests, get donations, and have a sploder. As for where I work atm as DJ manager...they take out 10% of dj tips and the hosts tips for stream and club costs..thats really not much at all, but it does help a bit. Anyway good luck. Lilly Thankfully traffic is not the biggest problem we have. We are currently listed in the top 25 goth hangout listing (#22 last I saw) and past few days our traffic was over 12K (no campers either). I have been laying the ground work for the club for almost a month before we opened. Our grand opening we had 25 or so people. This is about the 8th online community I have managed/gotten off the ground. I am quite skilled in online community PR and old hat to me at this point. I think we have a great theme and get compliments on the club all the time as it stands out from what I am told(The concept being a old gothic church converted into a club. Idea I got from the Vampire:Bloodlines game) _____________________
Strauss Ulderport
-------------------- Owner of NightHallows Lair Industrial, Goth, Darkwave & Techno music venue www.nighthallowslair.net |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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01-08-2008 08:23
The other issue is that there are far too many clubs in SL when compared to the size of the active population.
Lets say IRL there is one club for every 1000 people. and a Mcdonnalds for every 100 people. In Secondlife there are five times as many per capita clubs as RL per capita Macdonalds. |
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
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01-08-2008 08:26
Nice idea and may work for some except I have only been in business a short time and have no shortage of clubs asking me to donate items to give away to club patrons, which I do from time to time. I wouldn't pay to promote my items at a club since so many are willing to promote me at no charge. hhhmm asking for related vendors to donate prizes in exchange for PR during the event. Thats a idea... _____________________
Strauss Ulderport
-------------------- Owner of NightHallows Lair Industrial, Goth, Darkwave & Techno music venue www.nighthallowslair.net |
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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01-08-2008 08:27
Seems you and others are misunderstanding me. I am NOT asking how to I turn club penumbra into a money making enterprise. I AM asking for ideas on how to help offset the losses. I clarify I KNOW and EXPECT to be in the red on this. I simply want ideas on how to best lessen it as best as I can I think a lot of it depends on how much work you want to put into it. You could have donation jars (or plates or baskets.. whatever) that would allow people to donate to the cause. If you have dance poles or similar things, you could take a cut of that - 10% or 20% seems about the going rate. Both of these are pretty easy to set up and require little maintenance. If your place is popular, even with a smallish crowd, they will generate some L$. If you want to put more effort into it, maybe you could get some advertising L$ or rent out vendor space or have some pay-per-use land/objects (photo studio, naughty areas, bull riding, whatever).. _____________________
Tired of shouting clubs and lucky chairs? Vote for llParcelSay!!!
- Go here: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1224 - If you see "if you were logged in.." on the left, click it and log in - Click the "Vote for it" link on the left |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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01-08-2008 08:32
Stauss
How big is your club? How much land / how many prims? Chances are one GOOD way to reduce your operating cost would be to scale down. |
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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01-08-2008 08:37
...our traffic was over 12K (no campers either).. That's pretty good - congrats! If you have that much real traffic, I guarantee that you have a bunch of people who are either builders or who are thinking about building. Maybe you could set up some free vendors for locals to get started with and take a smallish commision from sales. It'd be a little tricky to get the perms right - you'd want one vendor to be able to sell things for multiple people - but it could be a win-win for both you and your patrons.. _____________________
Tired of shouting clubs and lucky chairs? Vote for llParcelSay!!!
- Go here: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1224 - If you see "if you were logged in.." on the left, click it and log in - Click the "Vote for it" link on the left |
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
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01-08-2008 09:01
Stauss How big is your club? How much land / how many prims? Chances are one GOOD way to reduce your operating cost would be to scale down. We are renting a 4096 plot with 937 prims or so... Sadly we are down to less then 20 free prims. While yes we could go smaller its a little late for that. We did almost a month advertising and many people have our LM at this point. Plus the sim we are in is emply the vast majority of time (its a goth/medieval themed sim) except for us. So not only does our building mesh well with those around us but it has a ton of free resoucres for the club. _____________________
Strauss Ulderport
-------------------- Owner of NightHallows Lair Industrial, Goth, Darkwave & Techno music venue www.nighthallowslair.net |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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01-08-2008 09:13
We are renting a 4096 plot with 937 prims or so... Sadly we are down to less then 20 free prims. While yes we could go smaller its a little late for that. We did almost a month advertising and many people have our LM at this point. Plus the sim we are in is emply the vast majority of time (its a goth/medieval themed sim) except for us. So not only does our building mesh well with those around us but it has a ton of free resoucres for the club. And your club is Club Penumbra? Maybe off topic but there already was a scene type bar called "Umbra Penumbra" (goth/indy/punk/etc) 4096 costs $25 a month in tier I think. So you need to offset those costs first. Then keep a reign on promotional and advertising budget to be closer to any profit margin that is over that $25 Most people will think if they just spend more, more people will come, they will make more money. But that isn't always the case, it can be a vicious circle. If you aren't even making a rate to cover $25 a month, then you really should consider how to promote the club without spending much money. I wouldnt pay anyone, not even DJs. Let them work for tips. Or give them a piece of the back-end. Which there isnt any yet and may never be. |
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
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01-08-2008 10:04
And your club is Club Penumbra? Maybe off topic but there already was a scene type bar called "Umbra Penumbra" (goth/indy/punk/etc) 4096 costs $25 a month in tier I think. So you need to offset those costs first. I know, I spoke to them and made sure there would be no steeping on toes. They seemed fine since our clubs are 2 very different themes and music styles. (I am goth, industral, techno, dance, synth metal in that order. Some overlap but not much) When I say rent I ment from a landlord/sim owner. Not LL, thus we do not pay tier (directly). _____________________
Strauss Ulderport
-------------------- Owner of NightHallows Lair Industrial, Goth, Darkwave & Techno music venue www.nighthallowslair.net |