Where is the breaking point on holding land? When do you just fold 'em and walk away?

Well, just my two cents worth on where prices are going.

It is in LL's best interest to prevent speculation - be it currency OR land. If nothing else, it wrecks hell on budget forcasting and a bad turn always has the potential for them holding an expensive bag. We also have to assume that with this strategy of keeping the price low, they have a pretty low threshold for how much tier is needed for a sim to support itself and pay overhead. If they have an actual economist on staff on top of the usual comptroller and staff accountants, they've looked at it six way from Sunday that L$6-8/sqm makes them the most money and potential for growth.

So ... for those hoping to make a buck on this, keep in mind that Second Life is a state-controlled economy. We don't know yet if that state is Cuba or Sweden, but neither one of those has the excesses of speculation and profit potential you would see in a more open "anything goes" economy.

All you can hope for is happiness, so long as you spell that with an 'S' and not a '$'

It's the state of chaos.

I spell happiness with an S. Sadly, I spell tier with a $$$.

I'm not saying cheap land isn't a good thing.
Not everyone buys land to flip it, myself included.
You buy when you want/need it and obviously the economic timeframe can't always be helped.
It's something like waiting to buy the latest greatest computer at the cheapest price all the while being without one when there is so much you could be doing with it now.

I would agree that the $8 base would have been more responsible at this time especially coming from what land prices were just months ago.

So for those of us when it comes time to sell NOW for whatever reason, a profit would be great,
to break even would be nice, to sell at a reasonable loss could be bearable, but to abandon is just sad.

im in the same boat as you, but on an even worse scale. i refuse to abandon to ll though, i wont let them profit off the auctioning of my land theyve devalued. id rather give it to merlin than ll.

Desmond's post offers some good practical advice to try out.

But ... I really think you need to calculate what your "tip point" is, and just make it an economic decision. In other words, it's a fair assumption that land prices are not going to go up substantially for several months, and that the continued pouring of both mainland and new private sims onto the grid will work to keep it that way for some time. In light of that, calculate how many more months of tier payments you are willing to pay for that land vs. the price you will get for it by lowering the offering price. Make the decision about economics, and not emotions like being frustrated with LL's land policies, or being stubborn and refusing to budge -- making economic decisions based on factors like that often ensures that you will lose money. At some point it may make economic sense to abandon the land as well -- again, make that an economic decision, too, and plan ahead of time what that tipping point would be, and stick to that.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. The whole reason I started this thread was to get a measure of what other people think is "reasonable" in today's market for 8192 M2 in private sim, that is residentially zoned and prime waterfront land. As I have said before, I don't do land speculation, and I don't know the market. This was my home, and I've moved on, and am trying to get rid of it so I can stop paying maintenance on land I no longer need. If L$9 or L$8 per M2 isn't reasonable any more for the type of land I am selling, then what is? 7? 6? Do I have to go all the way down to 5? Can any of you people who are so knowledgable about the land market throw me a clue here?

Guess I will just keep dropping the price until someone bites. I'm down to L$60K now for the land, which is L$7.3 per M2. That is undercutting what the sim owner charges for that much land by at least L$5K.

As for my earlier comment when I said "I'd still have to drop to something like L$5.5 per M2 to match what LL is selling their mainland trash lots for.", I was NOT calling ALL mainland lots trash. I was saying that when Linden Lab dumps sim after sim of land on the market, much of which IS so bad that it is trash and they can't get more than L$5.5 per M2 for it, people offering reasonable prices on much better lots get shoved so far down the search queue that we don't even get seen or considered. (Consider recent comments by others in other threads that a lot of the recently dumped new mainland sims are mostly steep granite slopes or look like 'moonscapes'.)

If "Reasonable 512's are still going at 8.5-10sqm and 2048 are still at 10-14sqm", as one person claims, then why does a pristine 8192 M2 waterfront lot facing a water Openspaces sim get no interest at all when priced at L$9 or even L$7.3 per M2? Just because it's a private island, zoned residential? I would think that a place for a home that is certain to be free of ad cutters and laggy clubs would be a positive thing, rather than a negative.

This land wasn't purchased as some sort of land-flipping investment. I bought it because I really wanted to live there, as my only parcel in SL. At the time, it was the best parcel and best location that I could afford. Any of the parcels in private sims that I saw which required no money up front for a parcel were either lagged to hell, were not waterfront, were not large enough, or were surrounded by other builds that I didn't want to live next door to.

It's a residential sim - strictly non-commercial use. Again, that is what I wanted when I bought it - a home for myself. I didn't want a mini-mall or porn store for a neighbor - I wanted a quiet place where my household could meet, roleplay with each other, and enjoy each other's company. But yes, that means I can't open a store there now to offset costs. The only thing I could do that would raise money is to sublet it to someone else. Plunk a house down on the lot and rent the house to someone. And I don't want to be a landlord.

Desmond, I'll try some of your suggestions. I already added a simple beach bungalo home, a private dock, and a beach bonfire party area, all of which the buyer will get for free if they buy the lot. Everyone seems to put a high value on dead flat land, so I left most of it flat and open. Instead I'll try some light terraforming and adding a bunch of plants to make it more visually attractive.

Contacting the sim owner or the owners of the other parcels in the sim sounds like a plan, too. But most of that sim is also similar sized parcels, from what I can tell, so adding 8192 M2 to an existing avatar's land there would be a pretty big step up for any of them.

Considering Desmond's analysis of the sim-owner's side of such issues in another thread, I doubt the sim owner will buy the land back from me. He has quite a few sims, and a vacancy rate that is high enough that I can't see him being terribly charitable to those who would like him to buy back their land. I know he will swap for parcels of similar area, like trading the 8192 for two 4096 parcels elsewhere in his sims, but I doubt he buys back.

This is likely to be the last parcel I will pay up front for, until the unlikely time when I am doing so well that I can afford the extravagance of buying an entire sim for myself. The land I live on now is in a private sim, and all I have to pay is my monthly maintanance. There was no up-front cost, because a friend bought a new sim and needed only half for himself. By sharing the rest with my household and one other, he covers maintenance more easily, gets neighbors he knows and likes, and we all get a nice place to call home.

Ceera, it sounds like your current situation is so much better than anything you could have found on your own that ... well, you could regard the spare tier you're paying as just the purchase price on your new parcel. Moving to it before liquidating the previous one was probably the best thing you could have done - such nice situations, with friends on uncrowded sims - do not grow on trees!

You are here because it is what YOU want.. it surpasses cost, endeavour,aspiration,and consequence.

"As you're finding out, the person who looses when buying private land is you."

physical loss is incidental.. a consequence, you already went there.. you made the decision it was yours..

you will stay or go..

It should be your decision.. unless you want your way determined by others..there is no balance point...unless you are going nowhere.

Sound out, i agree.. but stand.Who really can be the truth...? is there such a thing.. it changes everyday one discovers new avenues, new roads and new directions.

There isnt an end we can see... yet..

It's basic economic principle: don't throw good money after bad.

Price it to sell before another tier payment, based on the market. Not what you think you should get. Or you will end up netting out at even less when you eventually do get rid of it.

Love.

i assum this land is on a private island sim and NOT mainland, if it is mainland disregard this post.


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point 1 ) never ever PAY for land on a private island, you should NEVER EVER have to pay a up front purchase price, you only pay for TIER since you can not own the private island land anywhere, A. C. has over 600 SIMS where the land is FREE and NO DOWN is required you just pay tier at same levels as LL charges (or maybe a dollar above)

point 2 ) since land on private estates is free anyway you only pay tier, never a purchase price, why do you expect to be able to sell it?...... or more importantly why do you expect some other 'noob' to pay for something that is free?

AC doesn't run a charity. She is simply amortizing the up-front cost of the land over a one-year rental span. You're still paying for it, hon. Just taking more time to do so.

In the case you cite, the price to rent land in Dreamland is 1.3 times more expensive than I was paying in maintenance in FairChang Estates. In one year of renting from Dreamland at that rate, I would have to pay roughly the same as having paid FairChang for my 8192 parcel up front PLUS paying the lower maintenance fee to Fairchang for the year. The difference is about $144 USD per year. But at the end of that first year, I would still own the Fairchang land, and I still could sell it, or continue paying their lower maintenance rates.

By the end of year two, paying Dreamland rates is like abandoning my land and buying it all over again each and every year. I'd still paying an extra $144 USD per year more to Dreamland than to than FairChang. And still own nothing. No thanks.

At any rate, there are some landlords I would just as soon never deal with. So even if those landlords did offer the same rate per month and no up-front costs, I wouldn't give them my business.

i sat on over 8500mm for several months. it didn't matter how low i put the asking price. at some point, i decided to abandon everything but what would be tierless for my group. sure, i lost money on the "land", but not having to pay any tier anymore has suddenly made sl a bright and shiny new place for me

sl land is a real racket, if you ask me.

my $.02.

The only real value your land has is what you can sell it for not WHAT you want to sell it for it is VERY much a buyers market not a sellers lol. So if you cant sell your land you think is good you will have to lower the price...better to recoup some cash then toss the land in the trash ie give it to Gov Linden thats a complete waste of your time an cash

Many avoid 'purchasing' land on private servers because they dont trust the owners. Thats why private servers are more often simply rental props. When you buy mainland your actually leasing from lindenlabs, so you have the corporation to bitch to when things go wrong. Odds are Lindenlabs wont kick you off your own land for no reason whatsoever, or sell your land out from under you without due cause. 'Buying' private server land from some guy off the street, who you have no idea if they are trustworthy or not, isnt the most comfortable thing to do even tho its virtually the same thing as buying lindenland. You never really own anything, either way. Your only purchasing the right to charge somebody a transaction fee when your done using it. So what happens when you 'buy' this chunk of land and then find yourself unable to sell it? Cut the price on a daily basis till its gone. Its a black hole waiting to drain your resources. Is there money to be made in the datastream that is SL? Sure. But your timing must be impeccable, otherwise your left holding the bag.

Just wondering if there are any differences abandoning land from mainland to private estate.

Logically the private sim owner is still liable for the land so they would have an incentive to assist with the purchase by another resident.

Would the parcel go up for auction (purple) ? Does anyone have any experience with this?

-whyroc

In the covenant of the estate where I live, it says that if you don't pay your rent/tier, the land reverts to the estate owner so I guess you abandon your land not to LL but to the owner of the Estate.

On a private sim, any abandoned land reverts to the sim owner.

Aside from the fact that some of my options are limited, like not being able to chop the parcel up into squalid little pieces like an ad cutter, and not being able to throw up a store in the middle of a residential area, I'd be no better off if this was a Mainland parcel. The Lindens certainly NEVER buy back parcels from someone who wants to move on, though they happily take it back and resell it at a profit if you abandon it on the mainland.

The problem here is that I happen to have a valid reason to sell when the market has just been destroyed by LL dumpung WAY too many new mainland sims on the market. They trashed the value of the land I was slowly accumulating. It's like the city tax assessor coming through and insisting that you have to reduce the asking price on your house by half, for a completely arbitrary reason. But you have no choice but to sell anyway, because you have already moved to a new town for a new job. *sigh*

You nailed the issue exactly here. While you owned the land, LL corrected the market by over 50%. However, it does not mean you cannot get near to what you paid originally for the estate property. You only need one buyer. The problem is finding one in today's market when there are so many estates that don't charge upfront for their rentals and so much cheap mainland out there that the resident has total control over once they buy it. Even when the land economy was much healthier, it still took much longer to sell estate land than mainland. Good luck!

Bots kick in a 6 or 6.5L per meter..

Bots dont buy private estates. Bots are set for less right now. If you have mainland and all else fails, IM a landbroker.