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Why can an officer not subdivide group owned land?

Dana Bergson
Registered User
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 561
08-21-2006 12:40
Latest preview, as of today:

When I, as an officer of a group, that owns a large parcel on a private estate, select part of that parcel, I can not subdivide it.

If this is an intended behaviour, please reconsider. It is damn inconvenient to have to reclaim the land before I can adjust the cut. I am often helping customers to divide and join land. And I can not do that anymore - it seems.

Please forgive me, fellow residents, if this has been stated here or is in the Known Issues list. Finding something specific on this forums is a major hassle. And I clicked around 3 minutes on the website to find the know issues page. I visited maybe 5 or six pages. But none looks as if it contains a list of know issues for the preview. :(
Leia Lulu
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 13
Private Estate Owners Wishes
08-21-2006 20:20
As a Private Estate Owner, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE bring back the ability to subdivide and join parcels for groups on private estates. Even offer the ability for individual owners of the parcel. I understand that this feature was turned off for some estate owners, but PLEASE offer it as an option for the Estate Owner or Managers to toggle this ability off. I have alot of current renters who will be shocked at this change and mainland will be more appeasing than islands.
Dana Bergson
Registered User
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 561
08-21-2006 20:35
From: Leia Lulu
As a Private Estate Owner, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE bring back the ability to subdivide and join parcels for groups on private estates.
So it was an intentional change? :confused:
Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
08-21-2006 20:51
From: Dana Bergson
So it was an intentional change? :confused:


Yes

*spits on the nearest Linden* damn devs think they know how we want to use SL better than we do.
Dana Bergson
Registered User
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 561
08-21-2006 21:06
OMG :( I thought it was a glitch, when I noticed it two or three weeks ago and was rather surprised, to still find the presumed bug in the preview yesterday.

I just imagine how much fun it will be to parcel up a new sim in the future. First cut it up, then deed each one individually to our land management group, set it for sale individually ...

And, when I want to join two parcels, I have to reclaim them, join them, redeed them?

And, when I want to cut a smaller one for a customer who asks nicely, I have to reclaim the large one, cut it, redeed it?

Sounds like a lot of fun in the near future.

I don't want to sound too unthankful. The new group functionalities are nice. The ability to sell land on private estates is nice (much easier for both sides to close the deal now). But this "feature" ... sighs :o

Does anyone know, if "never showing land on private estates as 'for sale' on the map" is a feature, too?
Leia Lulu
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 13
IT gets worse!
08-21-2006 22:01
An owner of MAINLAND cannot join parcels!
Lex Neva
wears dorky glasses
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,361
08-22-2006 06:14
From: Jon Rolland
*spits on the nearest Linden* damn devs...


Uh.... that's not very nice.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
08-22-2006 07:04
From: Leia Lulu
An owner of MAINLAND cannot join parcels!
You're kidding. Please tell me you're kidding.

This is just NUTS.
Brent Linden
eXtreme Bug Hunter
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 212
08-22-2006 08:46
From: Jon Rolland
Yes

*spits on the nearest Linden* damn devs think they know how we want to use SL better than we do.


Hey! Watch it, some of us are trying to find bugs in here! :D

We hear you, and Milo Linden is bringing this up with the developers. We'll see where it leads.

But please, no spitting. That's just unsanitary!
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The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -Alan Kay
Brent Linden
eXtreme Bug Hunter
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 212
08-22-2006 08:50
From: Leia Lulu
An owner of MAINLAND cannot join parcels!


This is incorrect. Usually all regions in the mainland are numbered Estate 1 (which connects them together as a homogeneous estate). In Preview, we have a number of those regions (Bethel, Balance, some others) set up as Private Estates, or "Islands". The point of this Preview is not only testing groups but also estate land sales and covenants. As part of this, some estates will have more restricted options, such as restricting parcel dividing and joining.
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The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -Alan Kay
Dana Bergson
Registered User
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 561
08-22-2006 08:57
From: Brent Linden
This is incorrect. Usually all regions in the mainland are numbered Estate 1 (which connects them together as a homogeneous estate). In Preview, we have a number of those regions (Bethel, Balance, some others) set up as Private Estates, or "Islands". The point of this Preview is not only testing groups but also estate land sales and covenants. As part of this, some estates will have more restricted options, such as restricting parcel dividing and joining.
Hi Brent, this is good to know!

When we play around with this land, is there some documentation or notes in the parcel descriptions and/or Covenants, so we can see what is the expected behaviour? Please forgive me, if this should be clear. I can not go into SL currently.

Additionally: does this mean that it will be possible in the future, to create "Estates" (with control over some estate level parameters for residents) on the mainland?
Brent Linden
eXtreme Bug Hunter
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 212
08-22-2006 08:57
From: Dana Bergson
Does anyone know, if "never showing land on private estates as 'for sale' on the map" is a feature, too?


The world map in Preview gets updated rarely/never/only if you have sacrificed the correct number of twisted, hollow, cut torri. Therefore, the for sale areas may not work for private estates that have not been up since Preview first started. I'll see about getting a map regen run, but it'll cost you... YOUR SOLE.
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The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -Alan Kay
Brent Linden
eXtreme Bug Hunter
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 212
08-22-2006 09:01
The idea of the mainland is that it is a homogeneous estate and (judging by the confusion already caused) it would probably be a bad idea to provide "private" estates on the mainland. But who knows? Sometimes things change, right?

Any region in which you buy land and it asks you to agree to a covenant is a private estate in Preview. The rules of the estate are listed in the covenant. If you buy land in preview, please read the covenant! It provides the information on what can and can not be done with the land. When I get into the office I'll see if there are any FAQ's on how covenants work.
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The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -Alan Kay
Dana Bergson
Registered User
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 561
08-22-2006 09:33
Brent, please let me try to define the capabilities of estate owner/managers again, so I get the intended behaviour clear:

----------------------------------------
On an estate, where "reselling of land" is not allowed

An Estate Owner CAN
- Set "For Sale" parcels that belong to the Estate owner
- Divide/Join parcels that belong to the Estate owner

An Estate Manager CAN
- Set "For Sale" parcels that belong to the Estate owner
- Divide/Join parcels that belong to the Estate owner



An Estate Owner can NOT
- Set "For Sale" parcels that belong to a group where she is officer in
- Divide/Join parcels that belong to where she is officer in

An Estate Manager can NOT
- Set "For Sale" parcels that belong to a group where she is officer in
- Divide/Join parcels that belong to where she is officer in

----------------------------------------
Even on an estate, where "reselling of land" is allowed
- ONLY an Estate Owner or Manager can join/divide land
- Estate Owner or Manager can only join/divide land that is owned by the Estate Owner

----------------------------------------


The consequence is:
- Land which is to be sold, can only be owned by the estate owner
- Terraforming on this land can only be done by the estate owner

- When a customer wants to join two parcels or divide one, he must call the estate owner. The land must be reclaimed, then the join/divide can happen. Then the estate manager has to deed or sell it again to the customer ... :confused:



I understand some of the reasoning behind these decisions. Still the consequences seem not to be very practical in all cases. Some of the advantages of group owned land - that I can delegate a few tasks to trusted officers - are gone now. This is especially sad, as the new groups and roles give us much better granularity for permissions/abilities now. :confused:
Dana Bergson
Registered User
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 561
08-22-2006 09:37
Suggestion A:
If I understand the whole idea behind Private Estates correctly, the owner and the managers should have near Linden-like powers over the estate. Wouldn't it make sense if the estate owner (and maybe managers, too) would have the ability to manipulate land in any way all over the estate?

I, as an estate owner can do that anyway: I can simply reclaim the parcel and do with it as I please - which I better do VERY carefully or I will loose all customers. :)
Dana Bergson
Registered User
Join date: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 561
08-22-2006 09:44
Suggestion B:
If this sounds to harsh, would it be possible to define 1 (one) group for each estate in which all abilities still work like they would on the mainland?

So, for all the land, which this groups owns, officers would be able to join/divide land and set it for sale (even when the estate allows no reselling).

Additionally, Estate Managers should have the ability to join any two parcels which have the same owner and divide any parcel.

I, as an estate holder, would be able to define the abilities in my team then with all the newfound granularity of the new group system - just by deeding land to this group.



Please forgive me, when I make these suggestions now and not three weeks ago, when I first realized that I could not divide land on our estate in the preview. I thought, this was a bug, not a feature and only realized yesterday that it is indeed intended as a feature.
Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
08-22-2006 13:15
Maybe if land resell is turned off, then land owners should be able to join/sub their land.

At least this way we maintain functionality for now, and there really is no room for complaints.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
08-22-2006 14:05
I'm a landowner (member of a landowning group) on three parcels on different private estates, and I've rented land on other estates. I'm on good terms with the estate owner.

Right now I can (and have) chopped up the parcel to set access controls on part of it, joined it back again, split another part off to "sublet" to a group member. There's no way I'd feel comfortable bothering the estate owner to do this, and getting the cuts in the right place in one case would have been frustrating... because I had to cut and recut the parcel several times to get the access controls where I wanted them.

Since the estate owner can always take back the land, they're not in any way being "protected" by restricting the land owners. All that they're getting is more hassles.