Instructor Subsidy To Cease on Dec 9

[16:05] Jesse Linden: OK, shall we start
[16:05] Kitty Rich: )
[16:06] Kryptonia Paperdoll:
[16:06] Jesse Linden: looks like we have a good representative group here
[16:06] Denise Collingwood: hi Sel good to see you again.
[16:06] Selaras Partridge: Hey Denise (:
[16:06] Penfold Pankhurst: Hey Sel
[16:07] You: welcome tat
[16:07] Jesse Linden: Hi Tat
[16:07] Selaras Partridge: Pen, hey there! (:
[16:07] Tateru Nino: Hihi! (rezrezrez)
[16:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome, tateru
[16:07] Selaras Partridge: Hey Tat (:
[16:07] You: I like your bug tat
[16:07] Jesse Linden: Hi Thumper
[16:07] Selaras Partridge: Hiya Liam (:
[16:07] You: Hi Thumper
[16:07] Zee Linden is Offline
[16:07] Tateru Nino: A rezday present
[16:08] Liam Serf: HI Sel
[16:08] You have offered friendship to Thumper Linden
[16:08] Jesse Linden: Ok lets get started
[16:08] Jesse Linden: shall we?
[16:08] Albert Plasma: yea
[16:08] Kryptonia Paperdoll: yes....
[16:08] Jesse Linden: As many of you knwo
[16:08] Jesse Linden: the Instructor program began
[16:08] Denise Collingwood: I think Jesse is going to annoucne that the pay goes up from L$500 to L$650
[16:08] Jesse Linden: as a way to incentivize second life residents
[16:08] Jesse Linden: to hold class events
[16:08] Denise Collingwood: ooops! that was supposed to be an IM!!
[16:09] First Page: lol
[16:09] First Page: haha
[16:09] Jesse Linden: and remains the last subsisidy from the days of a much smaller second life
[16:09] Jesse Linden: this shouldn't come as too much of a shock to you at this point
[16:10] Jesse Linden: but we are ending all subsidies of this type
[16:10] First Page: lol
[16:10] Jesse Linden: we are going to phase out the class payments system
[16:10] Jesse Linden: and will no longer be paying Linden $'s for class events
[16:10] Jesse Linden: beginning Dec. 9th
[16:10] Xenon Darrow: Jesse, when does this end?
[16:10] Xenon Darrow: kk
[16:10] Jesse Linden: 30 days
[16:11] Jesse Linden: the simple reason being it is inconsistent with our economic policy
[16:11] Denise Collingwood sobs... softly.
[16:11] Jesse Linden: and the position of Second Life as a platform
[16:11] First Page: lol
[16:11] Jesse Linden: and philosophically speaking
[16:11] Stillpink Sandgrain: so will a Linden be teaching these much needed classes then?
[16:11] Jesse Linden: I believe it inhibits a type of growth
[16:11] Jesse Linden: I'd like to see
[16:11] Guy Linden is Offline
[16:11] Jesse Linden: I think Linden $ support is no longer needed
[16:12] Jesse Linden: and I believe there are tremendous business and education opportunities
[16:12] Jesse Linden: yet to emerge
[16:12] Jesse Linden: partly as a result of having LL in charge of class events
[16:13] Jesse Linden: I've talked before that I do not like that fact that we approve
[16:13] Jesse Linden: instructors and classes
[16:13] Jesse Linden: I think that is a role you can do a much better job of
[16:13] Jesse Linden: than Linden Lab
[16:13] You: I totally agree with you Jesse
[16:14] You: You are a fine lot of intellectual residents with fantastic ideas
[16:14] Jesse Linden: now having said this, you all have done a tremendous
[16:14] Jesse Linden: job
[16:14] Jesse Linden: and we recognize
[16:14] Jesse Linden: the value you have brought
[16:14] Jesse Linden: to Second Life
[16:14] Jesse Linden: and the great service you are providing the community
[16:14] Jesse Linden: therefore what I would like to do
[16:14] Jesse Linden: is create higher visibility for class events
[16:14] Jesse Linden: in the Second Life
[16:14] Jesse Linden: either through the viewer
[16:14] Jesse Linden: or th website
[16:15] Jesse Linden: and essentially drive traffic
[16:15] Jesse Linden: to your institutions
[16:15] Jesse Linden: I would like to hear your feedback
[16:15] Claire Glitterbuck: You're kidding right?
[16:15] Jesse Linden: and find out how Linden Lab can help
[16:16] Xenon Darrow: Jesse, do we now have more freedom to market ourselves in newcomer areas? Barring Help Island?
[16:16] Jesse Linden: Xenon, that is a possibility
[16:16] Xenon Darrow: I would be interested in that
[16:16] Jesse Linden: what i would like to do
[16:16] Jesse Linden: is create an inworld education directory
[16:17] Jesse Linden: of universities and individuals
[16:17] Jesse Linden: much in the same way we have a developer directory
[16:17] Jesse Linden: which has been
[16:17] Jesse Linden: tremendously successful

[16:17] Claire Glitterbuck: I have a question, please.
[16:17] You: could this also be on the website listed Jesse
[16:17] Jesse Linden: yes
[16:17] Jesse Linden: Lucy
[16:17] Jesse Linden: go ahead, Claire
[16:17] Kitty Rich: rather than pay teachers to teach - we all have other income streams - I would like some incentive for new people to attend Basics classes - most do not have the skills to find us
[16:18] Denise Collingwood: TUi Neo has a directory of all universities in world, with teleports and landmarks to them.. may be we can send you that?
[16:18] Claire Glitterbuck: The people who need us most, and always have - are the new folks. New folks have no money. How are they going to pay for classes like you're describing? Or are we doing this as a "service" to LL? [16:18] Jesse Linden: yes Denise
[16:18] Jesse Linden: Claire, charging for classes
[16:18] Jesse Linden: is one possibility
[16:18] Jesse Linden: others might be partnering with developers
[16:18] Jesse Linden: or businesses
[16:18] Theodora Duke: But newbies don't have lindens to spend
[16:18] You: Yes please Denise
[16:19] Jesse Linden: you can also consider selling educational
[16:19] Jesse Linden: materials
[16:19] Ludo Merit: So all classes that are not charged for push products?
[16:19] Jesse Linden: there are all kinds of things
[16:19] Effsey Nelson is Online
[16:19] Jesse Linden: that can be done
[16:19] Jesse Linden: not necessarily Ludo
[16:19] Theodora Duke: cartoons to sell toys
[16:20] Kitty Rich: hmmmm i always saw it as a public education system
[16:20] Jesse Linden: another possibility
[16:20] Indy Turner: I have a question about the learning end of the spectrum. Scripting is one of those areas; that is rather confusing for newer users of Secondlife. Are any new ways going to be put into place to better teach script; in a broken down fashion.
[16:20] Jesse Linden: and just a possibility, I haven't even checked with the concierge group
[16:20] Jesse Linden: would be land tier discounts
[16:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jesse, how exactly will you be "promoting" the SL institutions of education? What are your ideas on that area? And how will they apply for "promotion", how much will they pay, how will they be validated?
[16:20] Indy Turner: Many of the online tutorials seem to be rather confusing for a crowd that has never scripted.
[16:21] Jesse Linden: for Universities in SL
[16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaaah tier discounts!
[16:21] Jesse Linden: Gwyneth
[16:21] Kitty Rich: why not rebates on a number of in life expenses?
[16:21] Jesse Linden: those are excellent questions
[16:21] Jesse Linden: Ive been talking with Glenn
[16:21] Jesse Linden: Linden who is the head of the developer program
[16:22] Jesse Linden: on the 'vetting process'
[16:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[16:22] Jesse Linden: to be included in the developer directory
[16:22] Jesse Linden: I am pretty sure we can create a set of criteria
[16:22] Jesse Linden: that provides the best system for students looking for classes
[16:22] Kelly Linden is Offline
[16:22] Jesse Linden: and establishes credibility for institutions
[16:22] Jesse Linden: I would love to discuss the specifics with you all
[16:23] Penfold Pankhurst: What about independents?
[16:23] Jesse Linden: good
[16:23] Kitty Rich: yes
[16:23] Jesse Linden: question penfold
[16:23] Kitty Rich: goood point
[16:23] Jesse Linden: I think independent educators have played an enormous
[16:23] Jesse Linden: role in the Instructor group
[16:23] Jesse Linden: much in the same way independent contractors have been valuable developers
[16:24] Jesse Linden: I think we can accommodate individuals in a directory as well
[16:24] Jesse Linden: and we will certainly make an effort to do so
[16:24] Kitty Rich: hmmm
[16:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where will that directory be? In-world, web-side, on Linden-sponsored boards at the infohubs...?
[16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in-world = on the user interface
[16:25] Jesse Linden: Not sure yet, Gwyneth, that is what I am working to determine
[16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ok Sorry for asking!!
[16:25] Jesse Linden: I've thought of things like an Education Tab
[16:25] Jesse Linden: under 'Search
[16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, yes.
[16:25] Stillpink Sandgrain: good idea
[16:25] Jesse Linden: an html floater window
[16:25] Jesse Linden: like F1 Help
[16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a good idea, yes.
[16:26] Jesse Linden: a section of the website or both?
[16:26] Stillpink Sandgrain: cause guess what? I can't teach in world at all anymore..without getting caged
[16:26] Indy Turner: Possible put it in a section on the log-in page. Then, have links to a website with dates and information. Also, an education tab ingame would be nice.
[16:26] Compulov Weeks: seems a little like information overload, though a dedicated education search would be kind of nice
[16:26] Dee McLean: =)
[16:26] Jesse Linden: send me your ideas!
[16:26] Jesse Linden: [email]jesse@lindenlab.com[/email]
[16:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also... would these be only classes with "humans" or also places for self-teaching? (I'm thinking about the Ivory Tower, the Particle Lab...)

[16:26] Theodora Duke: Newbies are more likely to look in their search menus for directions
[16:26] Jesse Linden: the idea is that new users would always have a place to go in SL
[16:26] Jesse Linden: a lot of the problem we see
[16:26] Compulov Weeks: maybe an edu tab in the search box?
[16:26] Jesse Linden: is that new people come in
[16:27] Compulov Weeks: <--- not a gui developer
[16:27] Jesse Linden: and reach a [point where they go 'now what?'
[16:27] Stillpink Sandgrain: right
[16:27] Jesse Linden: if we make the next 5 upcoming classes readily available
[16:27] Jesse Linden: somehow in the client
[16:27] Jesse Linden: it might ameliorate some of that
[16:28] Dee McLean: Okay.. I'll ask.. What is ameliorate?
[16:28] Selaras Partridge: That makes sense. And those classes will be vetted or are freely accessible for anyone to post to?
[16:28] Kitty Rich: make good
[16:28] Xenon Darrow: so Jesse, is Linden Lab going to ramp up their technical support as a consequence of this decision?
[16:28] Jesse Linden: ameliorate = make better or heal
[16:28] Dee McLean: ty
[16:28] Denise Collingwood: are you expecting that there will be much fewer classes in-world as a result of this? Except those who REALLY do it for the pure LOVE of Teaching, will anyone else teach?
[16:29] Jesse Linden: Denise
[16:29] Kitty Rich: i will still teach newbs a bit
[16:29] Jesse Linden: I imagine there may be fewer classes in the near term
[16:29] Indy Turner: Right, and I think a large problem is that many users are afraid of the massive under taking of creating scripts and building with advance techniques.
[16:29] Jesse Linden: in the long term it will be much more robust
[16:29] Selaras Partridge: I guess this could cut down on the fake classes held by those who do it for the pure LOVE of money (:
[16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Selaras.
[16:30] Theodora Duke: Because there are so many of us out there?
[16:30] Contessa Marquez: So when noobs have questions who will answer them??? Live Help now???
[16:30] Cyn Linden is Offline
[16:30] Kryptonia Paperdoll: we do it because we want to help...
[16:30] Kitty Rich: the main issue I see is that there have been too many classes and no LL preferred curriculm
[16:30] Tateru Nino: It's not like the subsidy ever amounted to anything much for us as individuals.
[16:30] Jesse Linden: Well, this is not meant to be a technical support hotline
[16:30] Albert Plasma: did you ever thought about a bonus system for new users, to have some free classes, which are paid by linden?
[16:30] You: I am a liaison in livehelp trust me we answer thousands of questions daily
[16:30] You: its never ending and its part of helping everyone
[16:30] Jesse Linden: but a sound development program for SL educators
[16:30] Carl Metropolitan: Can someone please send me some information about what was covered in the first fifteen minutes? How much was the subsidy cut? Under what conditions? Why?
[16:31] Indy Turner: I myself would not mind teaching a class on building; it's a fancy of mine and do enjoy it. But, I am one of those individuals; who is saying and now what on the scripting end of Sl.
[16:31] Thinker Moy: Mentor option.
[16:31] You: Carl it is cut to 0
[16:31] Ima Mechanique: why noall of it carl, from Dec 9
[16:31] Contessa Marquez: How much haha All of it
[16:31] Claire Glitterbuck: My problem is this - I do it because I love helping new folks enjoy SL the way I do, Or rather, the way I did. Because you see, I' m facing an almost certain 50% tier increase on my island in the next few months. And now compensation for instructors
[16:31] Denise Collingwood: CArl, the long and short of it... 30 days from now, there will be no LL pay for teaching classes.
[16:31] Claire Glitterbuck: is being cut - discouraged, heck yeah, I'm discouraged. And if that makes it look like I"m doing it for the money - then so be it. I'm simply trying to survive here.
[16:31] Carl Metropolitan: Why?
[16:31] Cube Linden is Online
[16:31] Carl Metropolitan: That makes no sense?
[16:31] Jesse Linden: we are cutting Linden $ support
[16:31] You: teir prices do not go up for current regions your holding
[16:31] Carl Metropolitan: Yes. Why?
[16:32] Jesse Linden: but we are going to replace that support
[16:32] Adam Action: great place
[16:32] Kitty Rich: economic ratioanalism Carl
[16:32] First Page: yet lucy..
[16:32] Claire Glitterbuck: Lucy- that's gauranteed only till Feb 1.
[16:32] Jesse Linden: with a development program
[16:32] Contessa Marquez: That is nuts sorry
[16:32] Kitty Rich: confusing Public Education with welfare
[16:32] Jesse Linden: which I believe will provide more value to you
[16:32] Jesse Linden: in the long term
[16:32] Kitty Rich: *the way of the new millennium*
[16:32] Carl Metropolitan: Tier prices? I don't have an island. NCI operates off of tier donations by our members.
[16:32] Contessa Marquez: many peeps depend on working a little to pay LL tier money
[16:32] Compulov Weeks: I still think this is going to hurt the newbies the most, the ones who need guidance the most and who can afford it the least
[16:32] Contessa Marquez: and now we teach for FREE and pay you tier money as well
[16:33] Claire Glitterbuck: Compulov, I agree completely.
[16:33] Contessa Marquez: sorry that’s crap
[16:33] Kitty Rich: agreed Comp
[16:33] Claire Glitterbuck: Contessa, I agree with you completely too.
[16:33] Carl Metropolitan: Jesse--that's bullshit and you know it. How does putting classes that people are no longer going to teach on a tab provide more value for us.
[16:33] Claire Glitterbuck: I've had ENOUGH.
[16:33] Theodora Duke: I agree Contessa
[16:33] Kitty Rich: My classes are so basic anyone over 3 mths leaves
[16:33] You: On the blog say about the teir prices
[16:33] Contessa Marquez: And now the Islands will go to 300 RL?????
[16:33] You: and all those that have the island do not go up
[16:33] Claire Glitterbuck: I am NOT going to help LL generate new content creators when they don't value the ones they already have.
[16:33] Contessa Marquez: and what are you doing with this money??
[16:33] You: you should refer to the blog about this
[16:33] Jesse Linden: Carl, we are opening the way for now models to emerge
[16:34] Cube Linden is Offline
[16:34] You: new ones will be going up not existing
[16:34] Indy Turner: Funny Jesse, why is linden labs cutting pay for teachers? 10,000 new people join a day and they are looking for help. You will see fewer teachers in SL. Why is the game going commercial and cutting many valued user ties?
[16:34] Jesse Linden: and allowing you to decide who you want to have as an instructor
[16:34] Contessa Marquez: Claire I agree with you why should we teach for free now?
[16:34] Jesse Linden: and which classes you want to teach
[16:34] First Page: because it is what you love contessa
[16:34] Contessa Marquez: We did this before
[16:34] Kitty Rich: each class is a 2 hour investment in time
[16:34] Xenon Darrow: so, Jesse, what happens to the Instructor group?
[16:34] Compulov Weeks: heck, I can't say I'm happy with the decision, but if linden is insistent for putting the cost of paying a teacher on the student, the least they can do is offer some sort of compensation to the students so they can take some classes
[16:34] Contessa Marquez: we taught what we wanted to as long as it was PG
[16:34] Kitty Rich: agreed Comp
[16:35] Jesse Linden: Xenon, the Instructor Group will likely remain
[16:35] Jesse Linden: either as a resident run group
[16:35] Jesse Linden: or under the direction
[16:35] Contessa Marquez: and how will they be added?
[16:35] Jesse Linden: of pathfinder
[16:35] Jesse Linden: who is coordinating all our volunteer programs
[16:35] Jesse Linden: for the time being
[16:35] Jesse Linden: Pathfinder has worked with the RL education community
[16:35] Xenon Darrow: so you are still accepting volunteers, just not paying them?
[16:35] Jesse Linden: and we've talked about this extensively
[16:35] Selaras Partridge: I have to say this decision doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. With more new residents, we would need more and better teachers, and a way to support that.

[16:35] Carl Metropolitan: At least be honest with us. If LL needs to maximize their revenue by selling those L$ on the Lindex that they were using for classes, tell us that. I will understand. But don't give me bullshit about "helping new models to emerge".
[16:36] Contessa Marquez: Well I love teaching but I pay a HUGE tier for my island
[16:36] Kitty Rich: so have a lot of us
[16:36] Compulov Weeks: I like the ideas of making it easier to find classes, heck, when I was new if I hadn't had a friend from RL in world I'd have been lost myself
[16:36] Carl Metropolitan: I am okay with a business having to cut costs.
[16:36] Jesse Linden: Carl, I'm being honest
[16:36] Contessa Marquez: so where is the money going to???
[16:36] Jesse Linden: believe me I thought about all this stuff
[16:36] Indy Turner: The game is beginning to become over run by commercial Anshe chungs "I have nothing wrong with her." The small community feel that these teachers bring is going to be lost without teachers being paid because many people will not teach anymore.
[16:36] Carl Metropolitan: No--that's the problem. You guys are _not_ being honest.
[16:36] Jesse Linden: a lot over the past several months
[16:36] Chadrick Linden is Offline
[16:36] Claire Glitterbuck: Here here, Carl
[16:36] Carl Metropolitan: If you can't afford the class support, cool
[16:36] Contessa Marquez: Well sure hope she can teach for free then
[16:36] Jesse Linden: and I truly believe the current system is unhealthy in the long run
[16:36] Jesse Linden: both for you
[16:36] Carl Metropolitan: None of us want LL to close
[16:36] Jesse Linden: and for you LL
[16:36] Radslns Hutchence: I agree Jesse
[16:37] Jesse Linden: we can always throw more admin support at the problem
[16:37] Radslns Hutchence: until someone pays you for something, you have no idea how much its worth
[16:37] Carl Metropolitan: I know the support is a small part of the overall costs of LL, but I am okay with that.
[16:37] Kitty Rich: its about the *commercially astute residents jealous that we can actually make a difference and teach people how not to get ripped off
[16:37] Jesse Linden: but that’s not a very forward thinking or sensible solution
[16:37] Theodora Duke: Yes Kitty
[16:37] Claire Glitterbuck: You're complaining now that it takes up too much LL resources - now you're saying that you'll throw more support at it. Which is it?
[16:37] nimrod Yaffle: You guys hear about the new CFO? About all the scams and ripoff he did with Housevalues.com before he sold? Isn't it ironic prices we up when he came?
[16:37] Contessa Marquez: So in 30 days when noobs have questions we are ALL to say IM live help???
[16:37] Jesse Linden: I will say this
[16:37] Jesse Linden: that the payouts
[16:37] nimrod Yaffle: Live help doesn't respond now as it is :-/
[16:38] Contessa Marquez: Yep that will be my new slogan looks like
[16:38] Jesse Linden: are not good for the economy
[16:38] John Horner: pardon me for the comment but the epic was called "sold"
[16:38] Kitty Rich: they are good for the game!!
[16:38] Claire Glitterbuck: And this is not good for the residents - who, btw, are your CUSTOMERS.
[16:38] Jesse Linden: in the past I have said this represents a substantial administrative investment
[16:38] Carl Metropolitan: Will LL be cutting LL sales on Lindex to help the economy, too?
[16:38] Kitty Rich: Education is what makes strong, aware citizens
[16:38] Jesse Linden: just ask Lucy here
[16:38] Contessa Marquez: where is all our money going to then our RL money we send you???
[16:38] You: Yes contessa do that
[16:38] Carl Metropolitan: Or will you just be honest with us.
[16:38] Radslns Hutchence: not all residents ARE customers
[16:38] Jesse Linden: but that is not the central issue at all
[16:38] You: Send them to Livhelp
[16:38] Radslns Hutchence: only those who PAY are customers
[16:39] Theodora Duke: All residents SHOULD be customers
[16:39] Stillpink Sandgrain: well excuse me but ugly big flexed moving prim boxes are not good for SL period!!!! Teaching is the most important thing you can do here in SL and should be rewarded completely!
[16:39] Claire Glitterbuck: Well now they're really not going to pay if they can't learn how to make anything to sell.
[16:39] You: do you have any questions for me about where to send them or how to
[16:39] Contessa Marquez: And they will get no help
[16:39] Jesse Linden: like I said before I think we can provide much more value to YOU
[16:39] Indy Turner: Nor is a real estate monopoly held Anshe Chung. But, nothing had been done to shop that Jesse. No, instead LL says paying teachers is unhealthy. Land inflammation even worse yet no one dare try and stop that problem.
[16:39] Carl Metropolitan: I'm not pissed that LL has to cut costs. I'm pissed that you are treating us like idiot children.
[16:39] Kitty Rich: Live help has a response time of over 5 mins between 2am and 10 am as it is
[16:39] nimrod Yaffle: LIVE HELP doesn't respond even within 15 minutes as it is, that's not a reasonable answer
[16:39] Jesse Linden: the residents through development programs
[16:39] Contessa Marquez: How???
[16:39] Jesse Linden: for education
[16:39] Indy Turner: stop*
[16:39] Contessa Marquez: Yea totally FREE education
[16:39] Contessa Marquez: from us not LL
[16:39] You: we are revamping livehelp current
[16:39] Contessa Marquez: That’s crazy
[16:39] nimrod Yaffle: Just like Havoc, Lucy?
[16:40] Pez Defiant: =)
[16:40] Contessa Marquez: who will teach your new updates?
[16:40] Denise Collingwood: Most of the time, my experience has been that, Live help responds if you ask a question right way.. But, if someone says "Hi.. Um..." live help does not respond or takes 10 minutes to respond.
[16:40] Xenon Darrow: Jess, Lucy - I know you are bombarded right now - I will say this - currently, Universities in SL that teach SL skills are providing on demand learning center technical support
[16:40] Kitty Rich: who will teach people how to inter act
[16:40] Claire Glitterbuck: When I started here almost 2 years ago, there were maybe 2-3 classes held a WEEK. Time passed, and the number increased drastically - which was fantastic. Folks could learn through classes, rather than by fumbling on their own like I did.
[16:40] Claire Glitterbuck: this looks like a huge step backwards to me ultimately.
[16:40] Jesse Linden: I know Xenon
[16:40] nimrod Yaffle: Denise I do that, I ask for Linden assistance for a griefer, but no response. They tell me to use Live Help but it doesn’t work
[16:40] Xenon Darrow: Linden Lab will have to pickup that support monetarily somehow
[16:40] Kitty Rich: teach how to handle greif attacks with out using weapons?
[16:41] Contessa Marquez: Who will teach PERIOD
[16:41] Contessa Marquez: This is totally nuts
[16:41] Jesse Linden: just not via Linden $ payouts
[16:41] Jesse Linden: and we should be compensating you for that
[16:41] Indy Turner: So what will be the compensation?
[16:41] Theodora Duke: So what's the compensation?
[16:41] You: When I first came to secondlife and not as a linden
[16:41] Carl Metropolitan: Good question?
[16:41] Indy Turner: If not lindens, will it be land?
[16:41] You: No one taught me anything
[16:41] You: I learnt on my own
[16:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. The ones who will teach will be the ones able to run a successful business model that allows them to get paid without charging the students. Pretty simple, actually.
[16:41] Kitty Rich: to me its not the money - its the total lack of disregard that LL has for the development of community via interactive integration
[16:41] Contessa Marquez: But the times are different and now peeps want to learn
[16:41] Stillpink Sandgrain: Is obvious to me here that Linden Labs cares more about the economy than what SL LOOKS LIKE duh..get it now people?
[16:41] nimrod Yaffle: So everyone can learn on their own?
[16:41] Carl Metropolitan: Is this like the follow one programs that were supposed to replace the developers incentives?
[16:41] Contessa Marquez: they want skills
[16:42] You: allot of people like yourself can learn you know that, and with help they learn more yes
[16:42] nimrod Yaffle: People learn differently, Lucy

[16:42] Claire Glitterbuck: Point to Carl
[16:42] Contessa Marquez: They are here paying RL money and want to learn how to build and make clothes to bring in RL
[16:42] Thinker Moy: Allow more 3rd party SL sites to be indexed via SL site to take stress of some of the issues in relation to newcomers/interaction.
[16:42] Contessa Marquez: which in terms means more money for LL
[16:42] Claire Glitterbuck: Lucy, I DID learn myself - and it sucked. Like I said, biiiig step backwards imo.
[16:42] Contessa Marquez: Where will the help be then???
[16:42] Indy Turner: What will teachers we compensated with if not Lindens?
[16:42] Contessa Marquez: By us instructors to teach them for free for LL??
[16:43] Indy Turner: How will lindens keep the education teachers happy and keep them teaching?
[16:43] Contessa Marquez: Indy a thank you and that’s it
[16:43] You: I’m not saying learn on your own, but they can and will find you in the directory, the dedicated educators that do this still
[16:43] Jesse Linden: Indy, LL is in a position to drive traffic and opportunities
[16:43] Contessa Marquez: for free???
[16:43] Theodora Duke: So we're not dedicated because we want a little compensation?
[16:43] Carl Metropolitan: What good does traffic due for organizations that are non-profits?
[16:43] Jesse Linden: to our residents
[16:43] Contessa Marquez: guess not then
[16:43] Jesse Linden: as a platform
[16:43] Contessa Marquez: That’s nuts we love to teach
[16:43] Compulov Weeks: heh
[16:43] Carl Metropolitan: All it does it piss off our neighbors when the sim lags all to hell
[16:43] Kitty Rich: traffic only works if it attracts people with money
[16:43] Contessa Marquez: who works for free???
[16:44] Jesse Linden: I think that is a much more sound educational policy
[16:44] Contessa Marquez: hell we work for pennies now
[16:44] Compulov Weeks: I know plenty of RL teachers who love to teach but also have bills to pay
[16:44] nimrod Yaffle: They'd rather sell your share of the money on Lindex
[16:44] Contessa Marquez: yes like our tier fee to LL
[16:44] Stillpink Sandgrain: you want to PIMP out our most talented people IN SL that's what I see here today. how sad a day this is
[16:44] Kitty Rich: who really cares, commercially about some dork newb who can even not walk?
[16:44] Denise Collingwood: Jesse, do you know approximately how much money it costs Linden Lab each month to support the instructor program at the present time?
[16:44] Carl Metropolitan: nimrod--I'm okay with that--LL is a business--they have to make money. I just want them to be honest with us.
[16:44] Contessa Marquez: and plenty of RL tier fee geez
[16:45] Kitty Rich: agreed Carl
[16:45] Contessa Marquez: heck LL makes tons selling lindens
[16:45] nimrod Yaffle: Why not take the amount from the money you sell on Lindex though? It's not *that* much to pay....
[16:45] Contessa Marquez: will you still sell Lindens?
[16:45] Jesse Linden: Denise, a substantial amount goes into the economy each month to support educational events
[16:45] Contessa Marquez: more then you sell?
[16:45] Theodora Duke: Such as?
[16:45] Carl Metropolitan: If there is a follow on program, give us specifics. If there is not, and were are going to be on our own--tell us.
[16:45] Jesse Linden: and as I said at the beginning of the meeting, this is wholly inconsistent
[16:45] Ludo Merit: I am more unhappy about the idea that there will be few if any free classes. I won't pay to learn and a lot of people won't pay to learn.
[16:45] nimrod Yaffle: DI goes, dwell goes, now this.... how will entertainment places make money without renting??
[16:45] Jesse Linden: with how we want to manage the economy
[16:45] First Page: Carl.. They wait for us to provide the follow up program
[16:46] Indy Turner: I would start instead of cutting teachers pay by cutting out the 100,000 USD that is paid to individuals in the SL real estate markets. That is where the economy is going sour, not the teaching program.
[16:46] First Page: as we did with the educational program
[16:46] Theodora Duke: Let's just all make our schools into strip clubs - teach and escort at the same time
[16:46] nimrod Yaffle: haha
[16:46] Kitty Rich: Sorry its about larger commercial interests
[16:46] Claire Glitterbuck: LOL Theodora
[16:46] Thinker Moy: How about linden offering land to people who want to teach, so there’s no land fees but a shared % for both parties
[16:46] Contessa Marquez: So tell me now should we sell our Lindens before they become invaluable?
[16:46] Contessa Marquez: please tell us now so we can cash them in
[16:46] Jesse Linden: Thinker, we already provide land for teachers
[16:46] Carl Metropolitan: That's okay, First--I just want to know that for sure. now. Not in six months when the promised follow ons don't materialize
[16:46] Compulov Weeks: hey, how many women in real life are stripping to pay for college?
[16:46] Theodora Duke: Yes, free land or cheap land to teach on would be nice
[16:46] Jesse Linden: no one uses it!
[16:47] First Page: well you do now
[16:47] Contessa Marquez: This is how I pay lots of my HIGH tier
[16:47] Kitty Rich: I have watch the fabric of SL disintegrate to one of social problems, sex and gambling
[16:47] First Page:
[16:47] Thinker Moy: ahh
[16:47] nimrod Yaffle: There's a stage in Oak Grove, First
[16:47] Ludo Merit: Where?
[16:47] nimrod Yaffle: and many more
[16:47] Jesse Linden: you are sitting in one such area
[16:47] Kitty Rich: no sim now exists to entertain
[16:47] Contessa Marquez: oh so we can go to a free spot to teach for free
[16:47] Contessa Marquez: I see now
[16:47] Kitty Rich: they all want to grab real dollars from lonely people
[16:47] Theodora Duke: But how much does it cost to rent this place out?
[16:47] Selaras Partridge: Jesse, could you look at setting such areas to the Instructors group or some other group where the teacher is able to eject griefers?
[16:47] Contessa Marquez: oh boy what a great consolation that is for us
[16:47] Claire Glitterbuck: Selaras, excellent point
[16:48] Kitty Rich: NCI is one of the few places that exist for the fun of it
[16:48] Jesse Linden: Seleras, I will do that
[16:48] Kitty Rich: *hugs Carl*
[16:48] nimrod Yaffle: It's free, there's an option to put Linden Locations when you make a new event
[16:48] Selaras Partridge: Thanks (:
[16:48] Jesse Linden: Clearly with the way our policies have been moving over the past year
[16:48] Thinker Moy: We is very lucky we can come here and let rip really eh
[16:48] Claire Glitterbuck: We're ticked off? Heck yeah
[16:48] Jesse Linden: creating a business model that depends on Linden $ payouts
[16:48] Theodora Duke: But places like this - if the class isn't "approved" can we still teach here?
[16:48] Indy Turner: Listen, if teachers stop teaching. Many of SL members will be uneducated and will 100,000 of users will leave the game because they hit that "Hmmm, Seems I have done I CAN do" LL will be out it would seem more money in the long run than continuing to
[16:48] Indy Turner: pay teachers
[16:48] Ima Mechanique: No one uses the Linden Land, because we can't eject troublemakers there
[16:48] Carl Metropolitan: NCI will continue. We are a resident help organization that has classes. But what about places that are pure universities here? They are screwed!
[16:49] Jesse Linden: probably should give you pause
[16:49] Kitty Rich: like stopping push weapons and encouraging caging and swarm - that was a *forward* step
[16:49] Claire Glitterbuck: Carl, we're all screwed I think. What LL is proposing isn't going to work, not for the majority - just for the elite minority, same as everything else here.
[16:49] First Page: I agree Carl.. But by now... Everyone knows this was the directions Linden was going so I’m sure they are prepared with a bit of a plan
[16:49] Tateru Nino: I worry about the lone instructor as well, though there are few of them.
[16:49] You: we wont be approving the classes after Dec 9

[16:49] nimrod Yaffle: Hah, we could IM live help and wait 15 minutes if there's a griefer on the Linden provided land!
[16:49] Theodora Duke: Well, that's a relief
[16:49] nimrod Yaffle: *griefer
[16:49] Claire Glitterbuck: And Firstie -yeah I was ready, but I still don't like it, sigh
[16:50] nimrod Yaffle: The events list is hell anyways
[16:50] Carl Metropolitan: Tell people interested in learning to build to IM Live Help. They will teach them
[16:50] First Page: lol Claire .. Agreed
[16:50] Claire Glitterbuck: LOL Carl
[16:50] Kitty Rich: I have land if anyone wants a safe low lag teaching base
[16:50] First Page: lol Carl
[16:50] First Page: indeed
[16:50] Stillpink Sandgrain: I stopped teaching altogether now due to noobie ABUSE and would never dream of charging a student! That’s insane way to make anyone want to live here
[16:51] nimrod Yaffle: Hey Pink!
[16:51] Claire Glitterbuck: I want to go on record as saying Jesse and Lucy - I think you're cutting your own cyber throats here. But it's your call - all i can do is bitch and moan, which I do plan on doing lots of. But, it IS your decision.
[16:51] Thinker Moy: How about a system built into SL kind of like them freelance scripting sites, so people can go looking for help and be able to bid etc
[16:51] Dee McLean: Where's the love in it?
[16:51] Denise Collingwood: can we use some of the money saved to pay live help volunteers? (j/k
[16:51] nimrod Yaffle: Anyone know when competition is coming?
[16:51] Stillpink Sandgrain: hey nimrod! wanna learn to Build ? *G*
[16:51] First Page: Denise.. <Makes face>
[16:51] First Page: lol
[16:51] nimrod Yaffle: Nah, I'll just IM Live Help, Pink
[16:51] Claire Glitterbuck: Nimrod, sign me up!
[16:51] Theodora Duke: Just because someone is a newbie doesn't meant they are always a free account, so what is the compensation for that?
[16:51] Stillpink Sandgrain: lmaooo this is so silly heh
[16:52] Contessa Marquez: haha
[16:52] nimrod Yaffle: Most likely they'll just pass you a notecard and a landmark to the Ivory Tower
[16:52] Kitty Rich: some people actually upgrade because of what and how I teach
[16:52] Indy Turner: Jesse why has linden labs began stopping support for it's users? Island fees going up, Packet Loss issue that has not been fixed in a number of weeks, teachers pay is now being cut? You all trying to take more cookies out of the cookie jar than in it?
[16:52] Compulov Weeks: heh, with the direction LL is going with stipends, not much there soon enough
[16:52] Carl Metropolitan: They are in financial trouble, I suspect.
[16:52] nimrod Yaffle: The scammer CFO guy says they need more money
[16:52] Indy Turner: If they are having money issues...come out and say it.
[16:53] nimrod Yaffle: goggle for "housevalues.com scam"
[16:53] Jesse Linden: Indy, in order for second life to continue and Linden Lab to be a viable business
[16:53] Claire Glitterbuck: Ya know, baby steps would have made more sense to me - cut it from being able to teach 2 per day to 1 per day. Heck, make it only 3 per week.
[16:53] Theodora Duke: Too many free accounts given away, not enough traffic to make up for it
[16:53] Carl Metropolitan: That's why I'm not mad that the support is eliminated. I am just pissed at how they are justifying it.
[16:53] Jesse Linden: we have to make sound economic policy decisions
[16:53] Indy Turner: The community will help the company out.
[16:53] Kitty Rich: Yes Sell shares in SL
[16:53] Claire Glitterbuck: But nope - dive right in there and cut it completely. Gotta love it.
[16:53] Jesse Linden: hence the island increase etc
[16:53] Kitty Rich: float the damned thing
[16:53] John Horner: Can someone tell me the US = of the UK companies house?
[16:53] Denise Collingwood: i don't know if that is what it is, Carl.. Because they are trying to hire more liaisons... and liaisons cost real money.. Not L$.
[16:53] Jesse Linden: in order to continue to provide second life
[16:53] nimrod Yaffle: Linden IS real money Denise
[16:53] Compulov Weeks: Theo: call it AOL syndrome, how many accounts do they have and how many are *paid*?
[16:53] Penfold Pankhurst: So it IS just all about the money...
[16:53] nimrod Yaffle: Check Lindex
[16:53] Jesse Linden: this is the responsible thing to do
[16:53] Stillpink Sandgrain: why don't you just turn off build for new folks and they cannot build until they join SL as a member! If you want to make some real money...
[16:54] Carl Metropolitan: Though--honestly, now that I think about it. They have to justify it this way. If SL is in financial trouble, the last thing they can do is admit it in public forums. They would have to have to come up with non-explanations like this.
[16:54] John Horner: fungible value...

[16:54] Kitty Rich: so Carl is right!!
[16:54] Jesse Linden: we cannot provide you with the platform
[16:54] Jesse Linden: if we aren't a viable business
[16:54] Indy Turner: Listen, if Linden labs is having trouble. Stop giving away free accounts; start charging $10.00 again. Tell the community the company is having trouble staying afloat. I bet you 10/ 1 the community will begin a massive effort to support SL so they can
[16:54] Carl Metropolitan: Thank you, Jesse
[16:54] Indy Turner: conitune playing
[16:54] Compulov Weeks: lots of new accounts and nothing to show for it
[16:54] Indy Turner: continue*
[16:54] Claire Glitterbuck: But Carl, we're far too dense to figure that out ourselves!
[16:54] Theodora Duke: But without us, you aren't viable either
[16:54] You: The growth of secondlife is fast and growing more each day, we need to grow with it
[16:54] Carl Metropolitan: Sorry Claire--I just figured it out.
[16:54] Kitty Rich: so Jesse - just say guys - we have to cut costs - so no more teachings subs
[16:54] Compulov Weeks: *show even
[16:54] nimrod Yaffle: Lucy, yes, that *includes* better support
[16:54] Theodora Duke: Yes, quit dicking around
[16:55] Jesse Linden: its not a matter of cutting costs
[16:55] Kitty Rich: MUCH easier to swallow than platitudes
[16:55] Penfold Pankhurst: Right on Kitty
[16:55] Jesse Linden: its a matter of responsible fiscal policy
[16:55] Claire Glitterbuck: Oh god please, my stomach won't handle even the though of paying for CS right now.
[16:55] Theodora Duke: Sounds like it's a matter of higher profits
[16:55] Denise Collingwood: i love your euphemism, Jesse
[16:55] Kitty Rich: we do not teach because we are fools Jesse with respect
[16:55] Dee McLean: really
[16:55] Compulov Weeks: hmm
[16:55] Jesse Linden: I’m being totally serious
[16:55] nimrod Yaffle: I'd pay if I saw it would be worth it, but I pay for tier right now, I shouldn't have to pay for CS added on
[16:55] Jesse Linden:
[16:56] Jesse Linden: what do you want me to say ?
[16:56] First Page: looking around this room.. Is the majority of the heads of sl facilities that provide the education in sl.. together we have provided great sl tools to Sl.. We do it because we like it .. If we are real with ourselves.. This is an opportunity to move
[16:56] Stillpink Sandgrain: I know people will pay to build here. just for the privilege
[16:56] Kitty Rich: be honest
[16:56] Kitty Rich: that all
[16:56] Compulov Weeks: wasn't the original idea LL had to have a VAT on sales in world? Not like I like the idea of taxes, but if they could be used to pay for stuff like teachers (like in RL), then that might be a good thing
[16:56] Carl Metropolitan: Jesse--has Linden Labs switched to the cheap brown paper towels in the bathrooms?
[16:56] Jesse Linden: you don’t need us anymore
[16:56] Kitty Rich: we are all adults
[16:56] Jesse Linden: us meaning linden lab
[16:56] Claire Glitterbuck: LOL
[16:56] Carl Metropolitan: They do, Compulov--the Lindex fee
[16:56] First Page: to new ways to do it
[16:56] nimrod Yaffle: lol
[16:56] Kitty Rich: No Jesses - LL does not need US anymore
[16:56] nimrod Yaffle: So this is just making a bigger divide between Lindens and residents?
[16:56] Claire Glitterbuck: Carl, it's worse than that - they put 1-ply tp in Philip's bathroom
[16:57] Indy Turner: Sheesh, I would rather announce my company publicly was having money problems. I KNOW for a fact users of SL would rally and help LL with their money issues. Donations, more press, and maybe they would understand increase in fees.
[16:57] Ludo Merit: Jesse, maybe you're being serious about seeing ways that I can take classes and be paid for teaching without you doing it. But I don't see it. Having a good directory pointing people to classes they will not pay for will not help Can you be more specific
[16:57] Kitty Rich: Yes I would love to buy into LL
[16:57] Indy Turner: We want to play here and understand we must support LL inorder to continue playing here.
[16:57] Stillpink Sandgrain: we NEED LL to police SL! That’s what we need from you then I can teach in peace again
[16:57] Ludo Merit: more specific about how we can develop with these new tools you propose.?
[16:57] Jesse Linden: there are many institutions I know of
[16:57] Jesse Linden: educational / non-profit
[16:57] Jesse Linden: as well as business
[16:57] Jesse Linden: yes
[16:57] Jesse Linden: that would pay
[16:57] Jesse Linden: you
[16:58] Jesse Linden: likely much much more than we would
[16:58] nimrod Yaffle: Jesse, has LL thought of including ads for free basic accounts? Maybe at the Login screen or something, selling the ad space. But for ALL premium uses, they do not see those ads?
[16:58] Jesse Linden: to run educational facilities
[16:58] Albert Plasma: hmmm. i don't understand it. We are lindens tool to show the noobs how to build things and start business - to buy land and to settle down. This will become the biggest unpaid chatroom without our noob support with education.
[16:58] Jesse Linden: if you would like me to help you get in touch with them
[16:58] Kitty Rich: good idea nimord
[16:58] Jesse Linden: that is what I’m offering
[16:58] Carl Metropolitan: That would be a good way for them to raise money, Nimrod.
[16:58] Stillpink Sandgrain: great idea nimrod!
[16:58] Indy Turner: If, LL ever went public I would cash out my LL and go and try and buy stocks in the company. I would be willing to support SL any way I could. Whether that meant owning my own server for land instead of SL paying server costs I would do it.
[16:58] Indy Turner: LD*
[16:58] Jesse Linden: if not, that’s cool too
[16:58] Ludo Merit: Please do help
[16:58] Stillpink Sandgrain: they will pay anything to get rid of POPUPS
[16:58] Kitty Rich: Well I am a gun for hire
[16:59] Kitty Rich: someone wants my skills show me
[16:59] nimrod Yaffle: Not pop-ups, just something to make extra money

[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: NCI wants your skills, Kitty
[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: I wish we could pay you for them
[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: An ad sidebar for free accounts?
[16:59] nimrod Yaffle: Something that makes SL still playable, we don't want basics to get so annoyed they leave, we'd need more on an incentive to go to premium
[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: It would give a reason to upgrade to premium?
[16:59] Jesse Linden: any other questions about this?
[17:00] Jesse Linden: Lucy will processing payments as usual
[17:00] Jesse Linden: until Dec. 9
[17:00] Ludo Merit: I am at a loss as to who would want to pay people to teach basic building.
[17:00] Gage Drumbeat: I’m a free account and I’d take the ad sidebar- today was my first day. i wouldn't have paid to try, but after a trial period, I’d be willing to upgrade
[17:00] Indy Turner: Yes, so listen just stop offering free accounts. Keep them low cost though. All the other Morpg's have outrages prices to play. SL could have new users coming aboard who don't wish to pay these outrages costs. Even with a 10 USD account.
[17:00] Ima Mechanique: still waiting to hear how you'll support us afterwards?
[17:00] Jesse Linden: if you are interested in working with me on an inworld education development program
[17:00] Comite444 Abismo: alguien habla español?????
[17:00] Jesse Linden: let me know
[17:00] Ludo Merit: For example. Or worse yet, what I want to teach, which doesn't put money in anyone’s pocket.
[17:00] Stillpink Sandgrain: they cannot pay here for anything with NO! stipend!
[17:00] Carl Metropolitan: What will the in-world educational development program consist of?
[17:00] Theodora Duke: I'm interested in being fairly treated as an in-world educator
[17:00] Laylah Mayfair: yo hablo español
[17:00] Xenon Darrow: I would be interested, Jesse
[17:01] Compulov Weeks: hey, we need to form a union
[17:01] Jesse Linden: Carl, I mentioned at the beginning of the meeting
[17:01] nimrod Yaffle: I'd be willing to fund an in-world paid instructors program if anyone wants to help start one
[17:01] Ludo Merit: I am interested too. I'll have nothing better to do.
[17:01] Jesse Linden: creating a directory of institutions in SL that are teaching
[17:01] Carl Metropolitan: I am sorry--I have a real life job. I got here as soon as I could.
[17:01] Comite444 Abismo: layla he entrado hoy y estoy perdido donde puedo ponerme al dia en español????
[17:01] Carl Metropolitan: Okay... That sounds good.
[17:01] Jesse Linden: and connecting clients that come to is
[17:01] Jesse Linden: * us
[17:01] Kitty Rich: a Lobby group more like
[17:01] Jesse Linden: with you
[17:01] Carl Metropolitan: Ah--connecting SL institutions with RL businesses?
[17:01] Laylah Mayfair: mándame IM
[17:01] Jesse Linden: we get out of the way
[17:02] Carl Metropolitan: And SL businesses?
[17:02] Jesse Linden: you get connected with companies and non profits
[17:02] Comite444 Abismo: como se hace eso layla????
[17:02] Carl Metropolitan: That is a good idea.
[17:02] Kitty Rich: hmmm
[17:02] Theodora Duke: Corporate sponsorship, what a concept for public education . . .and sports arenas
[17:02] Jesse Linden: you potentiallty get much more than 500L$ per class
[17:02] Jesse Linden: sound good?
[17:02] Compulov Weeks: "Nissan Sentra University"
[17:02] Translator v1.6: (private) “Nissan Sentra University”
[17:02] Carl Metropolitan: I would be interested in participating.
[17:02] Compulov Weeks: there's a reason why public school is paid for with tax dollars
[17:02] Ludo Merit: It's better than nothing.
[17:02] Translator v1.6: (private) It's to better than nothing.
[17:02] nimrod Yaffle: Jesse, would this be a Linden thing, or a resident run thing with Linden help?
[17:02] Translator v1.6: (private) Jesse, would this be to Linden thing, or to resident run thing with Linden help?
[17:02] Claire Glitterbuck: Ok so on the one hand, we're bad cause we're doing it "only for the money" - and now, hey this is great, cause we'll make MORE money!
[17:02] Claire Glitterbuck: Pardon me for being confused LOL
[17:03] You: if you would like to ask your question now this should translate it for you in spanish
[17:03] Translator v1.6: si quisieras ahora hacer tu pregunta ésta debe traducirla para ti en español
[17:03] Compulov Weeks: ludo: oh, I agree, given little hcoice
[17:03] Compulov Weeks: erf choice
[17:03] Laylah Mayfair: tengo problemas con el mouse, mira en www.miotravida.com.ar, esta es una reunión de instructores, no te puedo ayudar ahora
[17:03] Translator v1.6: (private) I have problems with mouse, watches in www.miotravida.com.ar, this is a meeting of instructors, I cannot help you now
[17:03] Shadow Weaver is Online
[17:03] You: Comite444 Abismo ask your questions please
[17:03] Translator v1.6: Comite444 Abismo hacen tus preguntas satisfacen
[17:03] Jesse Linden: Nimrod, LL will have a level of involvement in this
[17:03] Translator v1.6: (private) Nimrod, LL will have to level of involvement in this
[17:04] nimrod Yaffle: Ah
[17:04] Theodora Duke: a helpful level or an interference level?
[17:04] nimrod Yaffle: I'm interested, but not sure where to start
[17:04] Jesse Linden: but for the most part that role would be roughly, connecting educators
[17:04] Jesse Linden: with interested parties
[17:04] Translator v1.6: (private) with interested parties
[17:04] Jesse Linden: be it newbies
[17:04] Translator v1.6: (private) be it newbies

[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: NCI wants your skills, Kitty
[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: I wish we could pay you for them
[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: An ad sidebar for free accounts?
[16:59] nimrod Yaffle: Something that makes SL still playable, we don't want basics to get so annoyed they leave, we'd need more on an incentive to go to premium
[16:59] Carl Metropolitan: It would give a reason to upgrade to premium?
[16:59] Jesse Linden: any other questions about this?
[17:00] Jesse Linden: Lucy will processing payments as usual
[17:00] Jesse Linden: until Dec. 9
[17:00] Ludo Merit: I am at a loss as to who would want to pay people to teach basic building.
[17:00] Gage Drumbeat: I’m a free account and I’d take the ad sidebar- today was my first day. i wouldn't have paid to try, but after a trial period, I’d be willing to upgrade
[17:00] Indy Turner: Yes, so listen just stop offering free accounts. Keep them low cost though. All the other Morpg's have outrages prices to play. SL could have new users coming aboard who don't wish to pay these outrages costs. Even with a 10 USD account.
[17:00] Ima Mechanique: still waiting to hear how you'll support us afterwards?
[17:00] Jesse Linden: if you are interested in working with me on an inworld education development program
[17:00] Comite444 Abismo: alguien habla español?????
[17:00] Jesse Linden: let me know
[17:00] Ludo Merit: For example. Or worse yet, what I want to teach, which doesn't put money in anyone’s pocket.
[17:00] Stillpink Sandgrain: they cannot pay here for anything with NO! stipend!
[17:00] Carl Metropolitan: What will the in-world educational development program consist of?
[17:00] Theodora Duke: I'm interested in being fairly treated as an in-world educator
[17:00] Laylah Mayfair: yo hablo español
[17:00] Xenon Darrow: I would be interested, Jesse
[17:01] Compulov Weeks: hey, we need to form a union
[17:01] Jesse Linden: Carl, I mentioned at the beginning of the meeting
[17:01] nimrod Yaffle: I'd be willing to fund an in-world paid instructors program if anyone wants to help start one
[17:01] Ludo Merit: I am interested too. I'll have nothing better to do.
[17:01] Jesse Linden: creating a directory of institutions in SL that are teaching
[17:01] Carl Metropolitan: I am sorry--I have a real life job. I got here as soon as I could.
[17:01] Comite444 Abismo: layla he entrado hoy y estoy perdido donde puedo ponerme al dia en español????
[17:01] Carl Metropolitan: Okay... That sounds good.
[17:01] Jesse Linden: and connecting clients that come to is
[17:01] Jesse Linden: * us
[17:01] Kitty Rich: a Lobby group more like
[17:01] Jesse Linden: with you
[17:01] Carl Metropolitan: Ah--connecting SL institutions with RL businesses?
[17:01] Laylah Mayfair: mándame IM
[17:01] Jesse Linden: we get out of the way
[17:02] Carl Metropolitan: And SL businesses?
[17:02] Jesse Linden: you get connected with companies and non profits
[17:02] Comite444 Abismo: como se hace eso layla????
[17:02] Carl Metropolitan: That is a good idea.
[17:02] Kitty Rich: hmmm
[17:02] Theodora Duke: Corporate sponsorship, what a concept for public education . . .and sports arenas
[17:02] Jesse Linden: you potentiallty get much more than 500L$ per class
[17:02] Jesse Linden: sound good?
[17:02] Compulov Weeks: "Nissan Sentra University"
[17:02] Translator v1.6: (private) “Nissan Sentra University”
[17:02] Carl Metropolitan: I would be interested in participating.
[17:02] Compulov Weeks: there's a reason why public school is paid for with tax dollars
[17:02] Ludo Merit: It's better than nothing.
[17:02] Translator v1.6: (private) It's to better than nothing.
[17:02] nimrod Yaffle: Jesse, would this be a Linden thing, or a resident run thing with Linden help?
[17:02] Translator v1.6: (private) Jesse, would this be to Linden thing, or to resident run thing with Linden help?
[17:02] Claire Glitterbuck: Ok so on the one hand, we're bad cause we're doing it "only for the money" - and now, hey this is great, cause we'll make MORE money!
[17:02] Claire Glitterbuck: Pardon me for being confused LOL
[17:03] You: if you would like to ask your question now this should translate it for you in spanish
[17:03] Translator v1.6: si quisieras ahora hacer tu pregunta ésta debe traducirla para ti en español
[17:03] Compulov Weeks: ludo: oh, I agree, given little hcoice
[17:03] Compulov Weeks: erf choice
[17:03] Laylah Mayfair: tengo problemas con el mouse, mira en www.miotravida.com.ar, esta es una reunión de instructores, no te puedo ayudar ahora
[17:03] Translator v1.6: (private) I have problems with mouse, watches in www.miotravida.com.ar, this is a meeting of instructors, I cannot help you now
[17:03] Shadow Weaver is Online
[17:03] You: Comite444 Abismo ask your questions please
[17:03] Translator v1.6: Comite444 Abismo hacen tus preguntas satisfacen
[17:03] Jesse Linden: Nimrod, LL will have a level of involvement in this
[17:04] nimrod Yaffle: Ah
[17:04] Theodora Duke: a helpful level or an interference level?
[17:04] nimrod Yaffle: I'm interested, but not sure where to start
[17:04] Jesse Linden: but for the most part that role would be roughly, connecting educators
[17:04] Jesse Linden: with interested parties
[17:04] Jesse Linden: be it newbies

[17:04] Jesse Linden: or Harvard
[17:04] Theodora Duke: We're not stupid, we can connect ourselves, we often do
[17:04] Jesse Linden: or what have you
[17:04] Kitty Rich: hmm LL does have a point
[17:04] Xenon Darrow: Jesse, I am interested in whatever referrals of interested parties you have
[17:04] nimrod Yaffle: I think he meant like a.... developers list or whatever it's called on the SL website?
[17:05] Xenon Darrow: and have a sales team ready to work with you on it
[17:05] Jesse Linden: Yes, Nimrod
[17:05] Jesse Linden: something like that
[17:05] nimrod Yaffle: ah, ok
[17:05] Translator v1.6: (private) ah, ok
[17:05] nimrod Yaffle: Would it be individuals, or places like NCI, TUI?
[17:05] Kitty Rich: why should people not only get free access - but then get all of teh skills and knowledge for free - at that expense of people who pay real dollars to be here?
[17:05] Jesse Linden: First, YES
[17:05] Jesse Linden: we are
[17:05] First Page: perfect *hugs to all *
[17:05] Jesse Linden: Nimrod, both
[17:05] Mango Splash: nite First,,
[17:05] First Page: keep up the great work all .. and with a bit of thought we can still enjoy the game *smiles*
[17:05] nimrod Yaffle: That's why they'd add ads, Kitty!
[17:06] Mango Splash: Gnite All i must go too
[17:06] Jesse Linden: again, if you are interested in continuing a discussion about this
[17:06] You: Thanks for all coming to day
[17:06] Jesse Linden: please email me you contact info
[17:06] Kryptonia Paperdoll: ok i gtg..got RL job in 3 hours....
[17:06] Buttercup Linden is Online
[17:06] Jesse Linden: and I might setup a mailing list
[17:06] Kitty Rich: Jesse - why not set up a forum?
[17:06] Selaras Partridge: Thanks Jesse and Lucy
[17:06] nimrod Yaffle: [email]jesse@lindenlab.com[/email]
[17:06] Kitty Rich: yes )
[17:06] nimrod Yaffle: ?
[17:06] Jesse Linden: Kitty, that’s a possibility too
[17:06] Theodora Duke: Will there be a transcript of this meeting posted somewhere?
[17:06] Jesse Linden: [email]jesse@lindenlab.com[/email]
[17:06] Stillpink Sandgrain: Kitty you are right...if LL needs cash make the new folks pay to play... not to learn
[17:06] nimrod Yaffle: K
[17:06] Contessa Marquez: Thank you Jesse and Lucy
[17:06] Xenon Darrow: ty for your time
[17:07] Kitty Rich: Thank You both for being direct
[17:07] You: Farewell!! Everyone
[17:07] Jesse Linden: thanks everyone for coming out
[17:07] Jesse Linden: take care
[17:07] Jesse Linden: !

Yet more proof that Linden Lab, and Zee Linden specifically, are completely out of touch with the reality of Second Life.

Your economic policy is screw those who pay to pay even more, whilst continuing to allow thousands of unpaying individuals to cost those of us who believe in your game's potential.

Zee Linden HAS to go. If he doesn't, SL will die because of the decisions he is making. Why on earth did you employ this guy with the reputation he has - or didn't anyone bother to do a background check?

Lewis

This comes as no surprise to me at all.

Here's a translation of the first 10 posts.....

"Thanks for showing our basic model works, existing content providers, we couldn't have done it without you ... now fuck off and dont complain, you can always try for a job with Nissan."

Relax, guys, and look at the bright side. The teachers who were doing it for the money (and thus often were not very good teachers) will now be gone.

We survived the loss of event stipends, we survived the loss of dwell, we will survive this too. The sky is not falling, it's just changing colors. *grin*

Lands being used for instruction, and for non-profit new player services (such as the Shelter and NCI), should be charged for their land as educational/charitable institutions.

Actually, I just thought of this last night, and almost added it to my comments elsewhere. It would be logical. (And fair.)

Thus:

Commercial rate - for those entities using SL to promote, advertise, or sell products or services available outside of SL.

Resident rate - for residents, and residents selling products or services available only within SL.

Educational/charitable - for non-profit educational, charitable, and support services. This would include non-profit educational services such as the Shelter and NCI.

Otherwise, we are all going to be working for the man soon (as Jesse actually suggests), and the man, he be Nissan, Nike, et. al.

So yes, to the land tier discounts.

coco

No more tier, no more educational payments, no more stipend, no more event compensation.

Just free content creation and user base development via educational events all on the backs of all of us.

Who will the corporate entities LL's is trying to lure into the game market to when we're all gone? Oh yes, the free accts... well all I can say to that is good luck getting anyone with a free account to pay for anything.

When those free accounts don't buy/pay for anything corporate entities will have no reason to come into SL and won't. It wouldn't be a good business marketing decision for them to make

I see this all as a big mistake on the part of LL's and the demise of SecondLife is inevitable with this type of flawed business model.

I as a professional real world marketer having marketed such entities as Walmart.com etc for over 8yrs now fully see the reality of this situation and WOULD NOT and WILL NOT recommend that any of my clients invest in a SL presence. In fact, I will steer them far away from SL until it is transformed into a real viable marketing avenue with real PAYING customers to market to. As of now, I don't see that happening. Sad really but reality.

~Cheers~

The 'free accounts never buy anything' sure is a hilarious myth. Free accounts probably buy more from Lindex than premiums do, just based on volume. I know a lot of people on free accounts who can't keep their hand out of the cookie jar, so the speak, and spend OODLES on LindeX. They're on free accounts cause they don't give a shit about land, so there's no incentive at all to go premium. Or else they're renting land on an island, and so there's still no incentive to go premium. If they're renting land on an island, they're also paying a healthy bit that way. That money goes back to LL eventually, it just makes an extra stop along the way.

this is the last move in a line of bad moves on behalf of LL.
once the subsidies are all removed, new players will be totally screwed, and the economy they drive will start to decay rapidly. Cutting off the people who are educating new players, and showing people how to play is going to push that decay into overdrive, once new players start finding theres nobody around willing to help them. (live help? what a joke!)

People arnt going to put real money into something they cant try out first, and without the subsidies that feed 70% of the population, only the people who spend the lions share of theyre time in the game producing will be able to afford anything anymore. and considering those people are trying to sell, not buy, that money wont be going back into the economy too quickly anyways.
somehow LL seems to think that by alienating the common players, by overcharging the premium players, and by cutting off what little lousy support they had to begin with, that they are going to somehow start raking in the money? i think any grade school graduate could find several problems with that..
most people arnt going to pay for something, that isnt giving anything back in return.
large corperate sponsors dont pay to put things into deserted, disinterested locations.

personally, i find it funny to see the proprotions of good press vs bad press change so dramaticlly in the last 6 months or so. the worse things get in game, the more people are starting to take notice, and words getting out. not the positive, happy-go-lucky word that LL has been feeding us all ether.

LL's slit its own throat, and dosent seem to care. why should we?

I'm just a single data point and an unusual one at that, but note that I am a free account and I have put up hundreds of dollars for land purchases and am paying tier on group-owned land. I'm not a free account because I'm not prepared to pay, just because as s/he points out I have no reason to upgrade.

Perhaps, but people without payment information on record can't buy on Lindex.

I actually don't think that free accounts are such a bad idea, since it lets people come in and try Second Life with no risk.

What disturbs me is that the Lindens want to wash their hands of responsibility for anything other than providing a platform. Granted, it is a great platform! But I'm afraid we'll wind up with a bunch of "Reuters Islands" with big buildings and nothing going on, or private "pay to enter" islands with price tags that the average person can't afford. There is not much incentive to do anything else, other than build shopping malls or high-rent districts.

Lucy, Thanks for posting the transcript.

I'm not in-world much due to school right now, but still have loyalty - I'll be back teaching after graduation.

With marketization of the Instructor Group, do we even have any data to start with?

Jesse, If you're reading:

How many residents are online at a time these days?
Does the client report the duty cycle of the Help function?
What about stats on Live Support load?
Can you estimate the size of the "Live Education" market?
Any breakdown on inquiry categories?
How many *active* members of the Instructor's Group?


Thx

Why was this not announced on the blog if the blog is the official channel for making LL announcements to the residents of SL. After all we shut down a large number of the forums and they certainly don't reach a very large fraction of in-world users at this point.

This decision, decidedly unsurprising.

TOP 10 ACTIONS THAT WOULD BE SURPRISING FROM LL AT THIS POINT

10. Releasing cool new features that work and don't bork the system for days
9. Fixing the bugs in the cool new features before releasing them
8. Fixing the bugs in the cool new features before releasing more cool new features
7. Encouraging feedback, however painful
6. Listening to feedback!
5. Listening to feedback!! Even if it is not part of the Master Plan!!
4. Offering more value for less money, not vice versa
3. Ceasing to compete with content creators by pulling imaginary Linden$ out of your @$$
2. Derailing this train to the complete destruction of this game, or whatever you want to call it

And the number one most surprising action Linden Lab could take at this point--

1. Not selling out

I gotta say that I am deeply concerned that LL is taking the same stance that the US government is taking...raise the cost for having land and cutting schooling.

For a company who pats itself on the back for providing economic models etc to schools, it really dosen't seem to have learned much. When education is cut then the social climiate as a whole suffers, and just like my own country (The US) creates a social system of the rich and the poor, with very few avenues of betterment.

What really does it cost LL to pay the teachers? To put 500 more bucks out there in exchange for having 30 more people know how to use the system and create a more diverse 'Verse?

If the cost is so high, why not lower the pay to something more managable for LL like 150 per class.

Can we stage a protest?

This makes me very sad. TUI was the only group that didn't treat me as an outsider because I was new. And I still have a lot to learn about prims and scripts, I don't think I'll be done by Dec..