This may *really* be the last thread about the Bush signs

As LL has articulated that a strategy for dealing with them is in the works.

Yay! Relief on the way? Finally, LL has finally acknowleged the elephant in the room.

I wonder has this been suggested? Just as a land extortion view, why can't we limit the price on plots in general or certain sizes? Maybe L$20 or L$30 per sqm? I would think it would make it not as worth while for a quick get rich scheme including all the negative publicity?

This will not end well and..

AHHRGG!!

Sounds like good news to everyone. Yes, even the 'they take our free speech' people, I think.

And I'm already waiting for K***'s (no naming names reaction in this thread

Thank GOD!

coco <---- feels like breaking out in Martin Luther King Speech

OH YES and how appropriate that speech is for today!

*dances*

-_- i guess the baby sitter Labs finally gave the cookies to the childs

omg i am tingly all over that linden labs has finally realized that this ass hole is nothing but an extortionist and that many many 1000's of residents are fed up with his crap.

and in fact he is spamming the land scape and causing 1000's of common residents grief on a daily basis.

edit: and after reading your answers post Jacqueline Trudeau i must say you fu**ing ROCK FOR POINTING OUT HOW THES SINGS ARE A TOS VIOLATION!!!

Thank God, err the Lindens.

Of course there was no indication they would actually *do* anything really.

Yes, because Dr. King's message of racial equality is so on par with a dude putting ugly signs on this, a rich dude's toy service. Free at last, indeed.

Blimey, that didn't take long, did it?

I thought about this issue long and hard, and honestly I couldn't think of a TOS policy that would eliminate the Impeach Bush signs without eliminating legitimate free speech. It seems their options are:

1. Empower the Lindens to make judgement calls without requiring them to justify their decision with specific TOS sections. (No, "interfering with the enjoyment of others" is NOT considered "specific"

2. Creating comprehensive (and possibly lenghty) building codes that address sizes, shapes, lettering, and zones.

3. Technical features that allow us to "turn off" rendering of objects by certain people.

Of course they are a lot better at this sort of thing than I am, so I will be cautiously optimistic about whatever they come up with. But I certainly can't imagine what that would be.

No, because Dr Kings message of freedom and equality is on par with curtailing the freedom of expression....

Oh for crap's sake. I was just singing to myself, when I read the news, "Free at last, free at last, thank god almightly...."

Then I realized it was also MLK day!

But now if YOU want to put two events on some kind of a moral equivalency par, then you just GO RIGHT AHEAD, Enabran! Just I'm in too good a mood over this to care about your predictably snarky remarks, however much of a reach they may require.

Anyway, I have you on IGNORE and I can't HEAR YOOOOO lalalalalalala lol

coco

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. Personally I'm pessimistic that the cure will be worse than the disease. Let's hope this doesn't turn out to be a "be careful what you wish for" moment.

Don't worry Kyrah, you'll get a cookie, too! No need to be sad!

Pity: seems like something's broken on your end. You keep responding.

That's a good point, too, but I'm pretty ambivalent on the whole thing, besides my exhaustion with the whining.

I doubt the cure will be worse than the disease. It's obvious that LL is loathe to restrict free speech in SL. It just disgusts me that this person is using the whole "free speech" issue to get away with charging outrageous prices for land. He is making a profit off of annoying other people. He wouldn't be able to sell those plots at such outrageous prices if it weren't for the fact that they are inhibiting other residents' enjoyment of the game. I think the key word in the TOS is intentional, and this is definitely an intentional act to artificially inflate the value of virtual property. I think if LL takes all the factors into account that we've brought up in the forums and in the game they'll be able to come up with a way to get rid of this problem without setting a precedent for restricting free speech.

It's odd, because I'd heard someone mentioning before that when you click the signs they disappeared for a while. Gave it a shot yesterday, just flew around for a while clicking them. When you do they tell you they'll be off for something like 20min or so. As I was flying around I noticed that the people annoyed at the signs really (aesthetically) have (in many cases) made more mess trying to cover them than the actual signs make.

I just can't be as annoyed at them now, ugly as they are. When I'm at home I click off the ones in view, and I don't usually stay long enough (out exploring) to need to click them too many times. Unfortunately I can't click off other's various attempts at protesting. Is it still annoying? Yes. Does it seem as evil? Not really.

None in my sim but they still seem to disappear for a bit when you click them (hmm, there's a job replacement for camping chairs). Course makes me wonder if it's saving av keys or something.

I would be in the Chip camp, but I really doubt much will come of this new effort. I have a hard time believing LL would go down the more "active" route except perhaps for the tiniest of steps. Which suits me fine.

Well, they most certainly will go down the active route if it is costing them money. We can't see their money, so we don't know if there is a visible effect. But if I were them, and I saw an effect, or if I were afraid I was going to see an effect, then I, too, would use the TOS to prevent actions like this, while still allowing for the free speech of residents.

For one thing, if they don't, what this guy has done, anybody and everybody can do, until living in SL is crummy everywhere. That's why you have to keep the lid on griefers. Not only do their have their bottom line to keep in mind, but I doubt they like the idea of seeing their entire pretty environment wind up being this sort of thing.

coco

I have to agree with Cocoa on this, Lindens have to do what they have to do in order to end this fiasco, it's gone too far already. Too many residents are upset over this issue. They have to acknowledge, that free speech is important, but somethings are better left unsaid, i.e. saying hijack in an airport isn't particularly wise.

any one who thinks this is about free speech is wrong . this is not about free speech not at all !!! and any correlation to free speech should be wiped out. If this was about free speech he would not be selling the plots of land for such inflated prices. Period!!!

this man has made a grid wide attack on sl not on the servers or the information in the servers but an attack on the 1000's of residents thees signs grief on a daily basis.

and ultimately will lead to people leaving second life because until now linden labs has refusedto do any thing on the free speech issue.

don't get me wrong i am all for any one building any thing on there land that they see fit and i am a staunch 1st amendment supporter. but when you attack so many people like he has then this no longer becomes a free speech issue or an ugly build issue this is as i said an attack on the grid through the griefing 1000's of SL residents every single day.
the grid is open 24 7 for the most part and i would gander that not a second goes by that one of thees signs does not make some one somewhere feel like they have been griefed.

It becomes about free speech when the justification used to get rid of the "impeach bush" signs is turned against OUR free speech (and believe me, that's what this person will do if he is forced to take the signs down). So when you ask the Lindens to step in, you have two options...

A. You can ask for a change in the TOS that is so perfectly worded that this sort of land extortion becomes a clear violation BUT also spares all other forms of speech. This is more difficult to word this than you may think. You will have to play devils advocate with yourself to test any rule you can come up with by saying "if I wanted to cause trouble, how could I get around my new rule?" If you come up with something air-tight then you should share it with the Lindens as this is exactly what they are working on.

or

B. Ask the Lindens to make a special case in the rules for this one individual. When that person inevitably files retaliatory abuse reports against OUR builds (for example: the signs on our stores, the modest "land for sale" signs on land, protest signs for the many causes in SL, or just an ugly house) then the Lindens should say "These people are not violating the TOS. While you didn't violate the TOS either, the 'impeach bush' signage ban was a special case and applies only to you."

Option B sounds great until somebody comes after ME with it.

This person did violate the TOS, several parts of it. It is highly unlikely that he would be able to make a case against any of the 99,000 or however many of us are putting up signs and expressing free speech as per normal - i.e., not breaking the TOS in the ways he did to do so.

coco