The Big Picture Topic: Discuss Recent Social/Economic/Political/Cultural Trends Here

The only thing that comes to mind when I think of how SL is atm, where it's going, and what I think about it, is a sign that was painted in 30ft letters on the side of an abandoned building in Redfern (a once run down inner suburb of Sydney).

You couldn't miss it if you were commuting to the city by train - it was the last thing you'd see before you hit Central station and the tunnels of the inner city subway:

"People who love people, more than power and profit, are the luckiest people in the world".

Dunno why, but after nearly 8 years away thats still the most vivid thing I remember from home.

Siggy.

Id have to agree with Chip and toy on this one. I definately do not like the idea of self governance at all one bit. What makes SL thrive as a community is the diversity of which everyone enjoys. I beleive as residents of SL we can go beyond governance and simply evolve to Tolerance. Tolerance is the key here.

Where as there are many diverse cultures combining into SL. Some have been accepted, and then some that have not been. Soon perhaps we'll enjoy all types of cultures.

Very interesting thread. It seems a majority agree that the current governance in SL is preferable to some hypothetical self-governance... could someone enlighten this n00b as to what, exactly /is/ the current government in SL? I am aware that greifers and people behaving inappropriately in PG territory may be banned temporarily or permanently by LL.... but surely there is more to it than that.

Really fascinating issue. I'm resisting the urge to ask about 100 different questions here, but I'll spare you that for now

Oh, and I couldn't resist:



My personal guess, and perhaps this is relevant to the topic at hand, is that they would all, with the possible exceptions of Benjamin Franklin and a few others, be utterly astonished, and very extremely disappointed, at the size, scope, and operational methods of our RL governement.

Mmmm.. this boy would say, it's an 'aggreable anarchy' *EG*

I would call the current "government" a benevolent dictatorship, with Phillip Linden at the helm.

LL is, after all, the final arbiter on what can and cannot be done within SL.

- Ace

Ace,

After the recent forum changes and mass deletion of threads, I would change that description to 'fairly benevolent dictatorship'.

To my eye, of late, they seem like a hidden cabal acting capriciously toward the proles, but I'm a curmudgeon.

as the population rises in sl, i see a growing issue of hacker crimes go up significantly. i've seen objects hijacked, people attacked, people littering junk prim all over the place. people pay money, for what? to watch a bunch of 4 year olds make an a$$ of them selves? soon it wont be worth it to play in sl, it wont be fun anymore. sl will fade out because of lost interest in a violent sim world.


btw, as far as commercialism goes, that is dictated by what you want out of a video game.

i personally enjoy building homes for others, that sl is beautified, that someone has a home they are happy to go to. while we bill customers for the work it is more to justify the efforts we put in to making it the best we can. i've been in sl since february. i've been happy and motivated with or with out money. however, when i see the negative stuff happening, i see people not enjoying the game.. not wanting to be there, its when i see that things need to be changed.

I believe in self-governance of players in an environment that is defined by competing player communities

We will see it in Second Life. And it will be soon

As long as players have a choice between a decent number of player run communities, plus a "safe area" run by the Lindens I think we will *not* see problem of evil dictatorship. If there is evil dictator then you vote with your feet and move to another place. It worked in Shadowbane very well. People in Shadowbane who believed Anshe is evil dictator could just move to other town or nation

The same also works for banning. You can much more easily get rid of people you don't want in your community if they have another place to go. It is hard for Linden to ban people from SL. But it will be far easier to exclude trouble makers from player run communities within SL

@Linden: We badly need better community management tool. The current group system is lacking many very basic features.

This idea actually has some merit, with one caveat:
All existing sims should be part of the Linden-run "safe area." Self-governing communities should only be allowed in new sims that are set up specifically for that purpose, pre-arranged.

But even then there'll be problems.

And before anyone brings it up, no I do not agree with letting the landowners in a sim "vote" on whether or not to become a player-run community.

If the whole of SecondLife was self governed by a junta, I think things would get rediculous. However, if someone wants to lay down the law in their sim/parcel/vehicle, then more power to them.

Cool trends:
People getting more and more creative in the things they do. When a lot of MMO-type games have a complete lack of content, this place is nothing but.

Disturbing trends:
Lack of respect. I've personally seen more instances of griefing, rudeness, blatant stupidity and general snobbishness in the first two weeks of this foray into SL than during my Baskerville days.

That's the great boon and problem with total unfettered creativity. There will be some that play well others and some that want to be jackasses. AFAIK there's no system that one can set up that won't wrongly affect one person. Hey even virtual societies can't be utopias.

One thing that has bothered me relentlessly:
why are are all the unsafe zones scattered all over the place? It'd make more sense to me if they were all AWAY from the rest of SL where they could blow each other up to their heart's content.

Because it's the land-owners perogative to set their land to unsafe if they want.

There are only two "official" unsafe sims that I'm aware of, Rausch and Jessie. Landowners in these sims aren't allowed to set their land to safe, I don't believe.

There is a distinction to be made between governance and policing.

When somebody is griefed, or ripped off in a transaction or something, that's a policing/"Judicial" issue. Decisions about distribution of power, availability and issuance of new land and currency, etc., are in my mind governmental or "Legislative" type issues.

I still have lots of questions about this... for example, is there a "book of laws" or list of rules in SL? When problems arise, I guess we file an abuse report or bug a Linden... then what happens?

And perhaps more importantly, are there any guidelines that LL is following regarding the "governance" side of the equation? Or do they simply do whatever seems right to them at the time?

Well you get the idea. Ultimately, I suppose, in SL, LL are like God. They are omnipotent and, for all I know, omniscient...

Still interested,

See the TOS on this web site.

http://secondlife.com/corporate/terms.php

That's the law.

Yeah, LL has final say - keep in mind SL is just over a year old - and cultural evolution usually follows technological evolution.

So stay tuned.

Hmmmmm.... big picture, eh?

At the risk of being overly simplistic, I see most of the residents of Second Life falling into several broad categories. These are :

- Socializers/chatters
- Creators/builders
- Role players
- Entrepeneurs

Each of these types of residents have their own goals and agendas, and its the amalgamation of all this that makes SL so kewl.

The socializers/chatters are those that spend most of their time interacting with their online friends. People of similar interests tend to gravitate towards each other, and they do whatever their common thing is. Its these socializers that also drive the "club" scene in SL.

If one thinks about it, an SL "club" is really nothing more than a glorified chat-room. When at a crowded club, there isn't a whole lot one can do besides punch a button on a dance machine. Then all you do is chat while watching AVs dance, with everyone listening to the same radio station and seeing the same pretty lights and background.

Clubs are great, insofar as they provide a means by which folks can meet and greet and find those want to hang around with.

The creators/builders are those that love to make "stuff". I'm constantly amazed at the breadth and the depth of what is created in SL. As SL continues to grow in subscribers, the universe of creators will expand, with more and more imaginations being unleashed on the basic building tools. With more creators, we'll only continue to see more of the clever, classy, hilarious, obscene, magnificent, cheesy, lovely, hideous, WONDERFUL "stuff" that people come up with.

The roleplayers cover the map, in terms of interest. We have everything from medeival SCA-types, to lifestyle BDSM-ers with lots of kinky playthings. These are the people who enjoy the "alternate universe" aspects of SL.

And the entrepeneurs are those that have embraced the economic model of SL, and form the backbone of the SL "business community". Entrepeneurs come in a lot of different flavors, from creators/designers who derive singificant income by selling their wares in-world, to club owners who live and die by their dwell, to land speculators who try to profit from the SL open markets.

Now... while I've listed 4 basic types of residents, this list is neither mutually exclusive nor completely inclusive. That is to say, most folks fall into several, if not all categories at any given time. And there are some folks who can't be defined by any of these labels.

But its seems to me to be helpful to think of these groups, because each has its own set of needs and has its own agenda.

The one thing I see that is limiting to the socializers/chatters is the horrid sim-lag that happens whenever you get more than a couple dozen AV's in the same place. Town meetings where ANYONE could sit and listen to Philip Linden give one of his "State of Second Life" talks are a thing of the past.

Think of the possibilities though, if 100s, if not 1000's, of AV's could come together at the same time. The community would quickly drive events to fill such a void. I can see wildly popular competitive events of some sort drawing huge crowds. If SL could handle a crowd of 1000, I'd bet my bottom Linden that someone would come up with something that would attract that many.

As to the creators/builders of SL, we have been given a little box of "lego blocks" by the Lindens and told to go out and build. Given a few primitive shapes, the ability to twist them, cut them, paint them with textures, have them make noise, and a scripting language and physics engine to make them interactive with the rest of the world, the builders of SL are constantly coming up with creative new things.

As one who spends more time building than anything else, I'm fairly satisfied with the box of "lego blocks" that the Lindens have given me. Of course, there are times when I wish I had this, or could do something really clever if I had that. But the box of "lego blocks" that I have is the box I have, and I build with it what I can. Any new features that come out in terms of building will only be gravy, and will simply expand the universe of possibilities.

Role players need what the chatters and builders need. The ability to congregate more and more AV's will help these communities grow and flourish, rather than remaining fragmented and disjoint. And as the creators can build more and better objects for their given community, the happier these role-players will be.

The entrepreneurs of SL have a pretty good framework for what they do. The mere fact that the Lindens offer the option of restricting the reproduction of creative content goes a long way towards making this economy even possible. The fact that we have a scripting language that provides for the automatic distribution of this creative content are at the core of every vendo and market that is in-world.

It is, however, a completely "laissez faire", "caveat emptor" ecomonic model. There is little recourse for those hurt by the unscrupulous businessman or the swindler. But I'd rather have a free-wheeling economy than one burdened by rules and regulations designed to protect from these sorts of abuses.

And, whether folks like it or not, it is an economic model that is tied to the US$, both because of LL's endorsement of GOM (which I whole-heartedly agree with, BTW), and the fact that land-use fees are denominated in US$.

As in any society, the economy will drive much of the direction that things will take. So long as we have an economy that encourages both creativity and commitment, SL will thrive.

As Second Life stands now, I'm convinced that there exists tons of untapped potential, even within the confines of the current "state of the art". Even if there were never any more enhancements to the SL technology, a strong, evolving universe could continue to unfold before us.

But if, as I expect, Linden Lab continues to enhance and expand the technology envelope, we will continue to see SL blossom even more. SL residents are a pretty creative and intelligent bunch, and will quickly find uses for whatever enhancements are tossed our way.

SL can only become a greater place to reside...

- Ace

Huh. Now that I've experienced SL a bit the TOS makes for interesting reading

Especially the part about LL erasing your data and virtual money.... I presume LL has never chosen to exercise that particular contractual right, eh?