Contest & Conflict: the Design Community needs LESS Strife

I've been doing a lot of thinking since Hamlet announced the NWN Fashion Expo.

My first though was what an excellent way for people to be able to go to one spot and see a majority of the clothing designers in SL. Especially the chance to see what the newest designers are doing. I'm one of those people who doesn't have time to do a lot of shopping, so I often am the last to hear about some hot new designer. I just wish the list had been longer.

As the event progressed towards the catwalk show I started to have second thoughts. Mostly these have to do with some of the behaviors the idea of a contest are bringing out in the design community.

First off, it is difficult to compare designers because it is a question of taste, popularity, and exposure. Some people love pastels, floral prints, conservative cuts. Others adore leather, black, and exposed skin. Some designers are very social, others aren't. Some designers are all over the world and it is easy to get a feel for their entire line. Others, especially the Up and Comers are often only in a couple of spots. So voting tells you more about the voter, then who was voted on.

Most importantly however, I am very saddened at some of the actions and comments made recently, as best as I can tell, because there can be only ONE. Now designers are artists, and therefore almost always egotists.... Saying that, there are many designers within SL who view this as a community and are always willing to lend a hand to others, either publicly or privately.

I suppose that view is naive. We have seen that SL acts as a microcosm of the real world. Not surprising since we are all real people. Nevertheless, I would like to see events that try to bring us together, encourage cooperation and good sportmanship, not exasperate and promote division.

LOL... I was logged in under my "escape IMs so I can work quietyly Alt" Anyway, you saw the signiture, you know the source.

Surreal Farber
Officially Brain Dead

I concur whole-heartedly Surreal. My withdrawl from the voting process is in the main thread

So their "only-one-winner" rule caused you strife?

Why not start your own contest that has more than 1 winnner?

I've also withdrawn from the Expo, for many of the same reasons.

The fact that many voters claim they can't vote for any Up-and-Comers because they don't know of any was proof enough that many voters aren't even looking at the display they're supposed to be basing their votes on. The UaCs are displayed right there with the established designers.

The Expo did serve a positive purpose for me.. I saw some works by designers I'd never heard of, and I have a list of names of people I'd like to check out more from. Some of the Up-And-Comers impressed me the most. Some very nice work on display. I'll vote with my Lindens and my Ratings and leave the Mutual Admiration Society to their thing.

There were quite a few up and comers that I would have liked to have seen nominated. Seeing as I manage two stores I am quite familiar with alot of them and am always scouting for new talents (when I have space available)

I was a little disappointed by the whole process. If you are a new designer ("up and coming", with low exposure and low volume, the cards are stacked against you. And doubly so if you are designing exclusively for male avatars.

Without clients who also happen to be forum mavens, nominations would not be forthcoming. The alternative would have been to go begging for nominations to be included in Hamlet's event.

While it would have been nice to have had the exposure that the expo may have given me, I didn't have the time nor interest to polish my tin cup.

As the young child sat upon her father's shoulders watching the SL fashion parade of queens, kings, and new arrived, she cried:


"The designers have no clothes! They are naked!

The voters have no voice. They have been silenced!"


Thus innocence died.

----

Thank you Hamlet for your heart-felt intentions.

(cross posted at
NWN FASHION EXPO 2004 VOTING thread)

The UACs are obviously going to get less votes than the established. There is a division at least -- imagine the uproar if the UAC's had to compete directly with established designers or if everyone only had one vote for each class.

IMHO, this contest was entirely fair. I seems like their is a misconception surrounding the semantics of "the best."

As I've stated already -- the only way we can find a winner is to vote on it. we simply agree to the conjecture that the majority of votes will determine who is the best designer. market forces control exposure, not voting. it's an open system and it is an honoured one that we as human beings use all the time.

Being "the best" however is a qualitative and personal thing. I may not agree with what truly is the best as much as you would -- but in voting who is, exposure isn't included as collusion. No one can expect the voters to vote for something they haven't seen... but we can't simply not vote because everyone hasn't seen everything by every designer.

Sure, it may be competitive, but lets not take it farther than what it is. I'm not sad that anyone is dropping out. That is their perogative and shows that they don't believe in voting for a winner -- a different perspective entirely.

But for the sake of civility, can we stop condemning everything we do not agree with?

I have voted and am confident in my personal selections. As this is a matter of individual quirky taste, yadda yadda yadda, I thought carefully about this for a few hours and then sent my noms in.

My votes were predictable, and I mean that in a good way. I attended the whole Fashion Expo 2004, and then had a long look at the whole wall o' fashion in the snow after it rezzed.

I employed the following criteria:


-what would I wear if I was a chick?

-supplementary: what would I wear if I was a chick with heavy, smoky, yummy eyeshadow?

-what would I wear if I was a fish with wings? (Very important haute couture question, this, because it freshens the imagination)

-who has been helpful to me in explaining the philosophy and inspiration behind their design, either personally or via info I obtained elsewhere? (This helps put creation in context and add purpose, meaning, all that affirming tomato-stew-for-the-antisoul stuff.)

-does said designer remind me of a particular archetype mastermind that could possibly exist, with physical textiles, in the real world?

-what did I not know about previously but now like, very much, and makes me feel like it's retail therapy time?

BOTTOM LINE:
-what would I wear if I wanted to be fun?


Taking Harlan Ellison's advice to have an "informed opinion" to heart . . . . . . after having a look at all the designers's creations -- kind of like surveying a smorgasbord before chowing down and coming back for seconds or even thirds of what I particularly enjoyed -- I voted.

Touching on what Icon said . . . I don't get why sometimes it's said that "Voting shouldn't be a popularity contest", because isn't casting in your ballot representing you in the "popular vote", the vox populus? And how could you possibly vote for someone's work who you aren't familiar with at all? (Which was why the big wall o' fashion was there.)

Is promotion important? Well, is telling someone they're on fire if you want them to live important? Oui, ma cherie.

I now have the following things to say:

Merwan: Emperor's New Virtual Clothes wacks me out... dude.

As Rudyard Kipling said in an alternate reality: "Oh, East is East, and West is West, and always the twain shall meet."

Cheers.

Posted by Icon Serpentine in the Voting thread..
"...My counter-point and one that was even implied in my previous post is that even if I only knew 3 of the top designers and 2 of the UACs, I cannot be excluded from the vote. It cannot be expected of me as the voter to know everyone on the list and be familiar with their work. If it is, then this is a private contest and should be limited to the few in SL who DO know every single designer and all of their work. " (snipped for brevity)

The vote is open to everyone, and no one should be excluded. I don't think anyone is expected to know every single designer in SL. I certianly don't. However, those who are participating in the contest and are listed among the choices to vote for all have their works on display in Zermatt, so there's no need to only vote for designers we know personally or were already familiar with. That's why the photos are on display there in the first place, and I had thought it was the original idea behind the entire event. If people are not going there to see the designs before they vote, and are basing their votes sheerly on who they already knew were designers, then the whole thing is pointless to me. That's not a vote for what designer you like the best out of those on offer, it's a vote for whose name is most recognizable, regardless of how they compare to the other entrants.

I hope you don't mind that I respond to you here instead of the Voting thread, but we've had our wrists slapped over there.

Wow... reading the other thread, I think my point about this contest stirring up bad feeling is illustrated.

Sorry for not quoting the post, but my whole point is that I don't think we need a contest of any kind. I would have liked to have seen a showing of designers, lets say 100, first come, first serve.

This would also be wonderful for scripters, builders, animators, etc.

Surreal

As i stated in the original thread it was never my intention for my withdrawl post to create such a ruccous. I just wanted to inform everyone of my decision to leave the competition. That's all and not to create more drama or anything. Oh well. S**t happens I guess.

o Jen hun, dont be so hard on yourself... I will take the blame... since I was the to say " Sadly this is nothing more than a popularity contest"

Well you didn't say anything we weren't already thinking

Its hard to feel like I did the right thing when so much drama and hostility ensued when I did not intend for that to happen. And seeing as Hamlet had to shut down the thread because of it too...

To quote Jay quoting Cube:

"Life aint nothin' but bitches and money".


Good idea - bad implimentation perhaps... I hope someone else picks up this ball and runs with it - I'd like to see a SL World Fashion expo -- there is no reason why this can't be like a RL fashion show with runways and supafly biotches...

If you wanna find me, I'll be with the lingerie angels.

Siggy.

One thing that really strikes me, is that when the actual Fashion Expo was going on, the crowd seemed to be really well behaved and I don't recall any pixellated blood splatter outwards in a fan pattern from backstage. I had an awesome time, it was a lot of fun -- despite the awful lag which was inevitable and which will be a blessing in disguise as we push towards NWNFE '05 -- and avatars cheered each other on.

I really appreciated the diversity of the fashions and the designers and models represented with Hamlet's color commentary (LOL, that got pretty risque there with some of the BDSM bites ), and I thought it was pretty well-organized except for the laggy lagg lag as I mentioned. There were some cute touches and funny moments like when Versu, modelling for Asri, needed a TP and made a grand entrance and hovered onto the stage, hood and all, like some mysterious figure from an alternate future.

At one point I tried to force the sun to better see everyone, but like it always does for me, trying to squeal "I made this sunrise for Neal!" (yes, Stephenson) only crashed me. I promptly came back, kudos to Xyni Platini, and resumed watching what was a very exciting, positive, unJessian night.

Seemed to be a lot of great spirit and goodwill to me.

Wow, now I know why I got out of the SL "rag trade," it is getting really, really competitive. I'm so oblivious and happy just making my little trees and flowers and stuff...

Seriously, there is one way to ensure that people have actually seen the designs being voted on: Only allow voting if voters attended an event set up to collect votes. That might mean that Hamlet, or another Linden, would have to hold an event at least once a day for a week or so. But at least then there would be some assurance that the folks who showed up and voted had actually seen the work of the designers in question.

Having said that... I must also say that I'm not sure what place a very subjective contest like this has in SL. Everybody works hard on designs. Lots of people have great stuff for sale. Maybe it would have been better to just focus on some sort of exposition and not a contest, per se.

(Also, I want to add, on a somewhat unrelated note, SL designers, please list the location of your goods for sale in your profiles under picks and make sure your links are current! More than once, I have had to search all over tarnation for a specific vendor's stuff since I was following outdated landmarks. I just thought I'd mention that here. )

mmmm trees.... although Ferran has threatened me with dire consequences if I buy any more...

Vendor location suggestion noted.. implemented soon. Good call.

Surreal

Well the only way I could see events or votes like this being fair.

Don't have em.

Why not just showcase all of the various fashions in SL.. Everyone that submitted stuff in zermatt. Have thier favorite pic/outfit plastered in the NWN article along with the list and leave it at that.

No Blood ,No Mess all equal and fair.


Why did a fashion expo need to have winners and losers?

Just a couple of ideas which might be taken into consideration when organizing future contests like this:

- It seems most of this drama could have been avoided if votes (and maybe even nominations) were never made in a public forum and only via IM or some other private method.

- Have a scripted in-world voting system at the Zermatt display location (and you can only vote there) where all the contendor's designs are visible. Make it so all the contendors have the best chance possible to be seen.

Great idea Devyn! This was definitely a learning process. I still had a fun time seeing everyone exhibit their wares.

Maybe have a voting booth set up at the location where you must submit a vote from 1 to 5 on each fashion you see, without the designer's name displayed; that would be interesting!

I'd like to see a "draw"; have any designer who wants in join, and then have another designer chosen at random to be their model. In truth, I just want to see Baku in one of Jenn's poofy skirts.

Regards,

-Flip

Honestly. Devyn even before the voting thread was posted I had a feeling of how it would turn out as I mentioned to several people during the fashion show who voiced the same concerns. Personally I think the best and most fair way it could have been done would have been through a panel of non-partial Linden judges. But that is just my opinion. This isnt to say that any of the contestants are not deserving of the votes that were placed in their name.

-Jennyfur

Speaking from the blissful ignorance of someone who didn't even know about the expo, the most obvious question that seems to arise for me is: 'Why make it a competition at all?'

It's one thing holding a show and tell and giving 200 Lindens to the winner, but something like this is different. Clothes design is an arduous and painstaking business, and designers clearly see their reputations as very important to their economic 'success' (if that is what they are striving for).

Why does everything have to be competitive? It seems the spirit of competition has pervaded Second Life in recent months, and I really think it's something that should be deprecated.

When I joined Second Life my motivation was simply to enjoy myself and not outdo other residents. Well, I have been successful in both endeavours! Some people feel there is too much competition in the real world; one would hope that creating a dog-eat-dog kind of society was the complete antithesis of what the Lindens planned for this world.

It seems to me that what people like designers really want is recognition of their skills and hard work. That can be conveyed in many ways other than the nonsensical method of voting as to which of them is 'the best'.

Yeah that's a good idea too... to just have people vote on the fashions themselves rather than the name. It makes it far more objective and the problematic issues of reputation and popularity don't enter into it (unless the designs are recognized).


I agree having Linden judges might have been a good idea. Then again - the issue of even Linden favoritism could possibly come up, and also the Lindens are a bit removed from the everyday clothes-buying public - so would their choices be an accurate representation for SL overall?

And I agree with those that say not having a "contest" at all would have been better. I suppose the issue would be that Hamlet can't possibly cover every designer in the world that submits something to him though - so how does he make the numbers manageable?

I hope the design community can get past this time of competitiveness and division. I admire the work of many designers and I think all of you deserve recognition.