How to Be a Happy Mac User in SL

Metaissance, I have exactly the same setup as you (12-in 1.5GHz PB, 1.25 gigs ram). I have had a number of unexplained freezes with sl. I tried reparing permissions, clearing the cache, running disk warrior etc etc, with no luck.

In the end I wiped this disk and reinstalled everything. That worked! If I had to guess the reason why, it may be to do with the fact that I hadn't done that for years because I'd migrated across from an old machine using the Apple software that allows you to transfer everythng from an old machine to a new one.

The only problem I now have is the regular, irritating but not disabling pauses in sl for 1-3 seconds. I have posted on that subject before and it seems I'm not alone.

My PB gets hot, but not as hot as yours seems to. Make sure that the cooling vents are not blocked in any way, and preferably don't rest the PB on a really good heat insulator (a pillow, for example, is bad on both counts).

my 12" ibook runs SL for days on end with no problems - but then, my avatar is just camping....

I got an el cheapo usb powered notebook cooler pad (Circle Data MF-399S) that works great for cooling off my 12" powerbook. No more heat related problems since I got it

Just as an update to the origional post on how to be a happy Mac User in SL --

Universal Binary on an iMac (I am sure MacBook too). I run with my draw distance set to 128, all Bump Map & Cloth Simulation, Full Terain Detail, Siny Objects, Ripple Water, 4096 Particals, in full screen 1440 x 900 and get at least 25 fps. Thats how to be happy *grin*

........and the sad reality is that the Mac SL client is subpar. No matter how much tweaking or ram or anything you throw at it it will still run slowly. After having been on SL for a year I have seen the performance actually degrade on the Mac side. So thus the decision is made to run a windows pc el cheapo just fro Second Life. With a RADEON 7500 video card, not even supported for SL the 2ghz athlon xp with only 512mb ram runs 10-15 fps. The BEST I have gotten from a Mac G4 running a 1.42 ghz G4 is 3-4 fps. Ok THAT is intolerable. The Lindens have no further need or interest in supporting the Mac on SL .......they NEVER have the Mac client was an afterthought and simply a PORT of the windows client with NO serious Mac specific code. For those of you who understand 3d code its written all ass-backwards with textures written to the cpu and open gl written to the video card. It should be the other way around but the coders who write the program did a PORT boys and girls , in orther words it's crap. I WISH this were not an opinion but it is fact. So if you want to run SL get a cheap PC. After I upgrade the el cheapo with a geforce 6600 agp and 1gb ram it ought to go zoomy as I'm sure it will. But just to spite LL I will NEVER go premium user and use EVERY opportunity to dissuade anyone from using the Mac client on SL as it isn't worth spit! Like I told Brent Linden, I'm done using the Mac client but thanks to LL and their "policies" they will NEVER get another DIME out of me for their software. You see I don't like it that they are idiots. Because only an idiot could write code that badly and only another idiot would gladly use it. No iMac or MacBook or other intel Mac for me until the real dual core 64 bit cpu, Conroe......

Chris Black is pissed off that a PC ran SL better than his Mac Mini... and the PC had better specs too? wow.... genius at work.

I have to agree with Christopher Black, I've been playing Second Life almost entirely on my iMac G5 but since the kernel panics kicked in I had to switch to using my Windows PC. The performance difference is unreal and that PC is hardly a powerhouse, it certainly doesn't come close to my iMac G5 spec-wise but Second Life runs a hell of a lot better.

With Intel based Macs replacing PPC based ones plus how LL is already working on two new clients (for Intel Macs and Linux) you can't expect LL to go and rewrite the PPC Mac client. They have the same mentality as a game developer which is to make apps/games for what is current and coming. This is a messy time as Apple is completely changing the CPU type used again but that's not LL's fault and they can only do so much. Most SL users will not be average computer users but be similar to gamers and professionals that use apps like Photoshop, Poser and so on. These people will continually update and/or replace their system and with SL constantly changing this is what you need to do every so often as well.

I'm sure some things in the Mac clients could have been done better but I'm sure some in the Windows and Linux ones could be done better as well. I have a dual 1GHz G4 Power Mac with a 128MB nVIDIA video card, a fast connection but only 512 MB of RAM. My performance is pretty good ranging from about 5 FPS in a very busy club to 50+ FPS at the corner of a sim with no neighbouring sims. On average I'll be sitting about 15-30 FPS with average settings, some other avatars around and in a fairly average sim.

People with Intel Macs using Boot Camp have discovered that SL in OS X performs basically as well as in Windows on the same system. This is good news. Currently using a PPC based system myself it would be nice if SL performed better but my system isn't as great as it used to be and could use more RAM. But I'll need and plan to upgrade down the line to a new system so news that performance of SL in OS X on Intel Macs is about the same as the Windows one is good news and about the best we could hope for or reasonably expect.

To be happy, just buy a macBook Pro (with at least 1GB RAM option)

Actually a 2ghz Athlon XP has a lower performance rating than a 1.42 ghz Power PC G4 with a velocity engine but thats user stupidity believing clock rate equals faster processors. The real truth is that the Mac client is written by porting from the Windows cliewmt and has no specific code using the veloecity engine for vectors built onto every G4 processor instead the bumbling code porters use it for TEXTURES!!!!! Linden Labs is simply incompetent and not worth spit by way of support for the PowerPC Mac. And they should not be supported for a failed effort. No way.

That individual had to be finally muted for in-world harassing me in IM. Yes there are simply too many Mac users disappointed with Second Life and ONE view of ONE person feels we should just smile while being fed excrement? Tell you what PP you can have MY share too and since changing to a PC the client is finally usable. I am NOT buying a new computer right away simply to run ONE program. Not when I have something else albiet a 3 year old pc at my disposal.
It is reprehensible that Linden Labs cannot field a decent PowerPC client and I for one am not happy with that.
Phoenix is happy with 5 fps???? thats ridiculous performance and also shoots down the clock rate queen Missy Malaprop (since 1ghz x2 = 2ghz) (as PP reports a dual 1ghz tower) who thought a 2ghz Athlon xp is a great processor. Hoy paloy strikes again!!!!

I appreciate you're not happy with the performance you get.

SL runs very nicely on my G5 Mac - it's possible it could run better with a better port, but with all the bells and whistles I want on, except Local Lighting which is killed on all system at the moment, and a 192m draw distance I routinely get 15+ fps.

My partner has a super tricked out cutting edge PC and with a similar set up gets about 50% better than me - which given my machine is about a year old and off the rack is not unreasonable.

LL may or may not have been able to do a better job of porting SL to the mac... but the continuous rabid shouting isn't helping. We've got the message, you don't like how LL have ported SL to the mac, but we're going to make our own choices and I don't know about everyone else but the more you shout the more I'm tempted to reach for the ignore button.

There is nothing rabid about requesting decent software to run on the currently available hardware. Also I do not like being attacked by others for my opinion, rather I resent that. So for standing up for myself I am subject to hatred by others? I think not. Go ahead hit your ignore button then miss Eloise as I do NOT go around making veiled attacks on others, but I WILL respond to them. I am sorry but if responding against multiple attacks gets me called rabid I will not appreciate that either. It also might be a violation of TOS I'd be VERY careful what I said to people.............

The real thing that is missing from many minds is that my position is one that would benefit the Mac community on SL if it were to be addressed by Linden Labs. Thats my point. The PowerPC client should be rewritten. It's an opinion but also its substantiated by very poor performance on hardware which is concurrent with the released software by Linden Labs.

What I do not understand and will NEVER understand is that other people have some contentious need to attack others who state an opinion based on FACTS. I suppose that is what substitutes for any real ability to analyze a situation and do what is best for yourself and others, but then I wouldn't know as thats not me.

You know the old pc I am using an athlon xp 2ghz isn't even using an approved video card its only a radeon 7500 but I get 15+ fps on it. I AM getting a Radeon 9600 with 128mb ram, something that I can use without having to swap out the power supply, and with that I'll have better performance yet.

So essentially I am getting as good operformance as a dual G5 power mac with a three year old pc with a radeon 7500 video card. Thats horrible. It is also unacceptable. You don't have to like it either. I assure you that attacking me rather than venting to Linden Labs will ASSURE you that the Mac client will never get corrected either. It's YOUR Second Life. Do something about it.

Hit your mute button Eloise drown out the truth and just go away no one will miss you if you have nothing constructive to offer. Instead if you were to have said YES 15FPS is very bad performance considering I have a pro quality workstation capable of pro video editing, but it all comes down to your emotions. Which no one cares about.

The currently availabe hardware is intel-powered mac.
SL run nicely on mine.
The poor performance on mac-mini is about the crap low-end gfx card, not about the binary. (you can use any cpu specific optimization, if you have a crap gfx card the optimization can't do anything about it)



You're far too much agressive that why you are "attacked".



I'm very happy with the UB, it run better than my desktop windows computer.
Do you expect ANYBODY on the world spending human-hours (money then) to rewrite a binary for a deprecated hardware ?



Attacking other people is bad, isn't it ?



So why are you writing we are mentaly retard ? Isn't it an attack ?



mute ? wow ! cool option ! did you said something ?

I can't believe anybody on earth can think that a dual 1ghz have the same perf of a single 2Ghz ...

Are you aware that a single thread can't run on 2 cpu at a time ?
If your application is single-threaded, the 2nd core/cpu is almost useless. (can be used to run background task, such as OS services...)

A single thread application will run 1.5 to 1.9x faster on a mono 2ghz than a dual 1Ghz, considering that the CPU is the only bottleneck (which is false).

And there is a lot more issues than just the binary optimization and cpu power.
In a game, the whole architecture is heavily stressed. (and SL more than any other game is heavily stressing the whole computer)

.............ok well children and you know who you are. How many SL users are using new Macs to run it? My point for those who can't or won't get it through their heads that Linden Labs is doing them a disservice is that the WAY the Mac client is coded is simply a port of the windows product. So it will never work as fast as the pc product. It also was pointed out that while I was using a VINTAGE UNSUPPORTED Radeon 7500 video card SL ran on a 2ghz Athlon at 10-15 fps lowest at 8-9 fps. All the sucking up to Linden Labs in the WORLD will not get that fixed. And a Radeon 9200 gpu is SUPPORTED by Linden Labs and it isn't "sucky". Ok for those who have bought new Macintoshes that use intel hardware and find Second Life is running fine for them please just SHUT UP this is not directed or about you and is fully NONE of your business, and NO ONE CARES what you have or have not. I doubt that any of the PowerPC Mac users LIKE your stance and you are NOT making any friends by exposing yourselves, so look its a FACT that its LINDEN LABS that is SUCKY by providing an inferior product to the Mac community in the PowerPC client. There is no other getting around this. Tell Missy Malaprop about the 1x2 cpu equation and that means nothing because you are bound up in clock rates versus instructions per second the TURE value of a cpu or gpu.

My point is Macintel users is that your UB client runs ok because Linden Labs can code for intel hardware not powerpc hardware as they are deficient in that area. That sucks. Thats my opinion which also may be LOTS of other PowerPC users opinions. It is in the way SL is coded NOT taking advantage of the velocity engine on the G4 and G5 processor to execute vectors in objects because Linden Labs dosen't know HOW to do this except for texture calls which is the GRAPHICS cards job. Oh and the GRAPHICS gpu in the Powerpc client gets the vector calls. ASS BACKWARDS......It's absurd to the point of stupidity and a PORT job. And I KNOW its crap and the people with the Macintels should just shut up about the PowerPC client unless they agree because they aren't USING it. Goodbye PowerPC client you weren't coded worth a fart. Enjoy your UB on your spanky new Macintel Kerunix but get off our butts about your opinions because NO ONE CARES.

....IF thats what it really is is for the BENEFIT of PowerPC users. Not arrogant types with Macintel hardware that are running SL just fine. Nice and 3 bucks gets you a cup of Starbucks coffee but gets nothing done.

THERE are thousands of PowerPC users the large majority of Mac users that have given up in large part on Linden Labs for failure to provide a decent software for them. The windows client runs fine on slower hardware the Mac client for PowerPC does not. Thats an irrefutable FACT by ANYONE, at this time.

Arrogrant Macintel users will make fools of themselves or enemies by further exposing themselves against the PowerPC users on SL.

Since installing a radeon 9600 se agp 4x card 128mb ddr ram on the 3 year old HP 734n pavilion (only 512mb system ram) I am getting 28-29 fps (slowest at 20fps) BEATING your Macintel machines-at least on par with them. Now there Macintel users smug with your 1500-3000 dollar machines the TRUTH make you HAPPY? Well I'm not the scapegoat I'm the mesenger and your programs need rewriting even on the Macintel side apparently as you guys need to get out of your COMPLACENT ATTITUDE AND COMPLAIN!!!!

Mac users are a tight community and not taking it is a sure sign of a REAL Mac user. So look at yourselves Linden Labs has dressed you all in rags and they will have to be vehemently agressed in order to correct anything. You all can't even get them to change the window interface!!!!!

Thats pathetic that you have great computers wonderful oses and the Second Life coders are subpar-second rate and since your software runs second rate even on better hardware I got concerned. The real truth is you need to take your passion to the Lindens and hope they realize how terribly unhappy us Mac users are with their product, because we are at least on the PowerPC side. I suggest to the Macintel users they just keep to themselves as this is NOT about them.

I'm still trying to figure out what that means. 1ghz dual processors isnt even close to being the same as one 2ghz processor. but that doesnt matter as SL cant even use dual processors to begin with. and an Athlon XP running at 2ghz is a very good processor and much faster than any G4 Apple has ever used. And i mean faster as in performance, not just frequency. Unless you mean an Athlon XP 2000+ which is a rating number and doesnt run at 2ghz.

you assume way too much. you assume that people like myself with intel macs do not have PPC macs also. You also do not have the first clue about programming, and seem to miss the fact that a universal binary isnt an Intel binary, its universal meaning it runs on intel and PPC macs.

And your either doing everything you can to get FPS out of that machine, or your lying. I have a much better Windows machine than that and I cannot pull those frame rates with any decent settings. Hell on my intel mac i can pull more than that if i put the settings right, hell i got it saying over 70 fps.... try giving more info to how your getting the frame rates.

your assuming here too. i never said it was better specs because of a higher frequency. overall a 2ghz athlon XP is a much better performing processor than a 1.42ghz G4. You bought too much apple hype.

This thread is going to end in a flamewar, isn't it ?



Even if it was 90%, you'll still whining because YOU are not happy !!
And... do i cry because i can't even run SecondLife on my Sun UltraSparc ?
no... and Sun hardware are a lot much better than mac hardware.
I wish to be able to run SL on my 22 GPU Silicon Graphic too... trust me
(ok, this SGI is very old, even with some much gpu, it's now an outdated hardware with lower performance than a cheap nvidia or ati)



I suspect SecondLife to not have a single ASM line of code.
It's C or C++ ... the cpu optimization is done by the compiler.
If the binary haven't any CPU specific optimization (like MMX, SSE, ... (for intel, forgot the name of PPC special instruction)) blame the mac compiler not the C++ coder.



My desktop computer is supposed to be faster and i don't have a "lowest 8-9fps", but much lower. i can't trust your benchmark.



Sorry but... a 9200 is sucky, it's a smelly sh*t, i used this damn crap card 'til last week, i tried to do some intensive 3D with it, vertex program, fragment program, ...
this is card is poorly complient with oldest shader, it's not a DirectX 9 card, it's not openGL 2, ... This card is designed to be cheap for low end computer, it NEVER was a good card, even when it was a new one.



Now you're extremly arrogant, agressive and .... wrong.
And please, don't use caps to tell me how much i sux, it's offensive enough.



Do you understand what's a "UB" ?



Insults won't make them coding better, ffs !!!!

With so much FPS, you beat many high-end computer.
Mine is not high-end, but :
AMD 2600+
1GB RAM Dual channel
ATI X1600 PRO 256MB GDDR3 VRAM

And i don't have so much FPS.
or... wait.... are you benchmarking just watching the sky in a void sim ?

Look Kerunix no one cares what frame rates you are getting on a PC clone-or what hardware you conned your parents to buy for you. Take that elsewhere it is not welcome here. My reason for posting frame rates was to show how badly supported the PowerPC client is. Your problem is you are taking things that have NOTHING at all to do with YOU are not directed at you and take them as ego insults which they have NOTHING to do with. Thus Kerunix you make your own issues with other people, as well as with myself.

The Linden Labs people are fully aware that their PowerPC client is a poorly written port. I really do not care what they think, as this is a BUSINESS we are the CLIENTS we have an ISSUE and it is now understood by everyone reading this threaded post that there are a LOT of fools both populating and coding Second Life (as well as a few good people). Their claim that they have a PowerPC client is at best a deception, as they have a PORT of a Windows client.

And now Kerunix by your own hand you will be derided by the PowerPC Mac users on Second Life for being an obstructionist to their goals. Amazing how you did that all by yourself boy. You like to play in traffic too? Were I you I would remove myself from the Mac groups on SL as we got your number baby.

Look any PowerPC user I can dissuade from using and purchasing into Second Life because they agree that the software is subpar means I have attained my goal in causing Linden Labs to receive futher criticism and loss of revenue. THAT is where change will foment. Also we don't need to listen to arrogant geeks with ego agendas like Kerunix and we certainly don't have to chat with them either. Just want you to know you have gone beyond out on a limb baby you are swinging in the breeze

We NOW know YOU are a bigtime PC clone....and not a true Mac user so go soak your head!!!!

45 fps is as good as it gets Malaprop. No thats wrong Missy it is instructions per second not clock rate that determine a processors capability and the velocity engine on the G4 is far superior to anything Intel ever made for vector rendering in a cpu.

My 1.42 ghz Mac Mini with 1gb ram feels much faster than the 2ghxz athlon xp with 512mb ram but the disparity in frame rates on SL is the issue. You friggin pc lovers who also just happen to have Macs do NOT belong on this thread no one likes you anyway just go away before you get harassed by the Mac users inworld as they got your number now babe for getting in their way. Not that I care as you did that to yourself not I, by being obstructionistic all by yourself. BYEEEEE missy