The easy way to say "No"

I wonder at these government advocates, and feel sort of amazed getting to experience how and why people start thinking they have any right to tell other people how they should be living. I have always had a difficult time accepting the sincereity of individuals who want to do things "For your own good..." with little regard as to what might actually BE "good" for the individual they are pushing their verision of "goodness" upon. So here's what I do, its a little trick I have learned over the past 39 years of my life living primarily outside of what most would call "normal soceity"....
I IGNORE IT.
I ignored it in TSO, and wow, you know what, it wound up having exactly NO impact on my personal game play. Imagine that! All the drama, all the backstabbing, all the coups and squeeky little power mongers... I ignored them. Government... HA! Whatever. You can only make as absurd a farce of it as they have IRL.
Honestly, live your SL exactly how you want to, stay within the agreement you made with LL when you signed up (you know, the TOS we all agreed to, to be able to be here in the first place) and IGNORE the drama-makers as much as you possibly can.
You can spend time endlessly debating this issue, or you can go enjoy your SL. Easy decision if you ask me.

I endorse this product. (Thanks for the Pie option )

-- jj

Pie, I apreciate your sincerty and the approach you took in the past. Unfortunately, LL at one point expressed the belief that SL should evolve to self government. What does that mean to you right now well nothing right now. However in the future it would mean LL giving "Actual" powers to members of government to rule. Such as banning, forcing people to remove builds, dispute arbitration and a multitude of other tasks that LL currently holds.

Unfortunately with power comes corruption and in SL it has been proven time and again that corruption is absolute considering the addictiveness of SL.

This is what the hoopla is about because they could effectively "interupt" your game play if you didnt abide by their rules and they being the "Government".

In SL its a little more paramount when discussing things as LL does listen and that is the problem is they listen to a minority few to have things changed. The Minority isnt just the fabled FIC either but the multitude of players complaining about one thing or another that for the most part a lot of people are unaware of.

Shadow.

When I hear from a Linden that they will be relinquishing control of thier TOS to elected players, I will reconsider agreeing to thier TOS.

Understandable, and thats why I fight hard against a "Player Run" government that has a broad spectrum of control over the world of SL.

I would rather you be in world free and able to comply with the TOS through LL than to leave SL because they relinquished control to a few control freaks.

I would rather you maintain your personal freedoms you now enjoy as to have some ingrate that thinks you or I are playing SL all wrong and starts imposing rules against us.

I dont want to be in charge I dont want to set rules I just dont want anyone else to either as things to me are fine as they are.

Anyway, your advice for the most part is sound in other environments however here your voice is needed more so than your silence.

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver.

I remember a Pie from TSO....

....and yep she generally did ignore the whole TSO gov't thing....which had even less teeth than the ones here?

So, Pie, wanna 'confess'....ever visit IH?


- Newfie

All government in world is currently opt-in and is not a threat. I personally don't want to see SL-wide player-run government. I believe that it would be detrimental to the open and free environment that makes social, political, and governmental experimentation possible in SL.

With that said, the reason that "people think they have a right to tell other people how to live", is that they are trading freedom for benefits through a social and political contract. For instance, an organization enforces a covenant in a sim (loss of freedom) and in return the people living there receive a benefit (a beautiful sim). It's commonsense, really.

Finally, people don't "feel they have a right to tell other people". In the case of our government citizens themselves are democratically elected to be representatives for a short period of time.

~Ulrika~

I respectfully submit this post as my voice on the subject, rather then keeping silent.



I've heard confession is good for the soul, but as I am a godless, hippie, homosexual, I dont have one




I personally am not willing to trade my freedom for social benefits. I do pretty good socially already, thanks.

Excellent! Then an opt-in government is not for you.

But you do see how some would want to do that, right?

~Ulrika~

Reading the threads in this forum, you begin to realize that things are the opposite of what you might expect. The people who are interested in discussing aspects of government in SL are often open-minded and articulate. The anti-government posters are often profane, insulting, and very close-minded. Who woulda thunk?

Exactly! And since its not for me, and isnt required as part of the agreement I accepted when I became a member, I will simply live on my own land exactly how I want to, within the terms I did agree upon, and I will encourage others to do the same. I will do this regardless of which 'government' wins this debate.
In answer to your question, tho, I am sorry to say, no, I dont understand why people give up freedom for social comfort, but thats just me. Im a little slow with stuff like that.




Hmmm, should I be taking this personally :blows kiss:

which is a safe position to take... as long as ll doesn't do things based on the recommendations of any "government", player, or player group.

othewise, it's politically naive.

some of the changes ll has made in the past were a direct result of the lobbying of residents.

Naw, don't take it personally. But I do have a couple of nits to pick in your initial post that back up at least part of my point:


Sort of a broad characterization, don't you think? Perhaps some people are interested in government in SL as way to get things done more efficiently, reach common goals, and help people who don't feel they have a voice in the way things happen right now. But in your perception, there is only one reason to be interested in government. That, to me, is close-minded.


And yet, here you are, on a forum expressly made for the discussion of government topics, posting multiple times. Not that your posts are necessarily unwelcome, but just as you have a "difficult time accepting the sincereity of individuals who want to do things 'For your own good...'", I have a difficult time accepting the sincerity of individuals who say one thing and do another. If you want to argue against government in SL, cool, that's what the forum is for. If you want to come here and make the 20th condescending post about people who have interests other than your own and call them "squeeky little power mongers" and "drama-makers," then you are going to get some push back. From me at least.

No problem. Let me bring you up to speed on why people trade freedom to improve the quality of their life.

People give up the freedom to work people 80 hours a week and in return they themselves don't have to work 80 hours a week. People give up the right to dump pollutants wherever they want and in return they get an environment which is not toxic. People give up the right to build homes wherever they want and in return they get well defined property. People give up the right to have land that is untaxed and in return they get well funded schools. People give up the right to drive without insurance and in return they receive financial protection in accidents.

I could go on for pages and pages (sometimes I do). Here's a list for SL:

People trade the freedom to build wherever they want and in return they get well defined property. People give up the right to say whatever they want in a forum and in return they get a forum that's not a battle ground. People give up the right to display racist ...

I'm pooped. Just check out the ToS, you'll see.

~Ulrika~

If you look at the total number of posts I have made in the 15 months I have been a resident of this world, you will see that generally I dont post simply to hear myself talk. I have posted my personal viewpoint and a position I have adopted concerning these matters, which I seemingly mistakenly assumed was the function of this particular forum, and have reposted to clarify or defend myself.
Do we all make concessions to the masses in order to exsist in society? Sure. Do it every day. Maybe thats why I have little interest in doing it here in SL.
I suppose my biggest question and the reason behind my original post is this:
If I personally deem that player run governments have no power over my personal decisions or my personal gameplay in world, and these player run governments agree that I am under no obligation to them to listen to a word they say on my own land while I am engaging in no activity that violates the TOS, if I choose to ignore them, what are they going to do to me? They cant kick me out of the game, they cant make me give up my land, they cant do anything but grief me, which you know, could cause them to violate the TOS themselves. Could they possess these powers someday? Maybe, maybe not.
What about just forming your own group, buying your own group land, doing things the way you and the people in your group want to on your group land, and leaving people NOT in your group out of it, is so hard to grasp as a concept? SL provides you with an oppurtunity to play 'government' to your hearts content. Why feel that you need to drag me into it?
My position is I will choose to ignore the player run governments. If LL decides they want to relinquish their control of enforcing the TOS to a player elected government and I can no longer ignore it, I will rethink my agreement to thier TOS. I dont think this is anymore close-minded then assuming I have the right to tell anyone else how to enjoy thier SL. I also perhaps would be more open minded to the idea of any form of government if I had an example of ONE form of government that wasnt corrupt beyond redemption. I cant think of anything profane I may have said in these posts (unless you think godless, hippie, homosexuals in general are profane). And ok, I may have meant "squeeky little power mongers" as an insult, but only to squeeky little power mongers, so I apologize sincerely to each and every squeeky little power monger out there.

I remain, blissfully (you could even say ignorantly ) politcially naive. I make a little wish that I get to stay this way.

Pie, if your goal is to remain politically naive, why the long, politically-themed posts? If you are going to ignore those who are interested in forming a government, why start a thread in this forum? If you're not going to stand by your name-calling, why do it in the first place? Either jump in or get out of the way.

Why does this evoke the image of the unknown student standing before a tank in Tian'anmen Square?

just so we are all clear, I have called no one in SL or this forum any name. This is what I originally said:

Sometimes I think people use these forums as a way to blow off steam. I've seen long paragraphs where someone just picked away at a single typo. You can't say anything at all in here without someone getting angry about it.

How dare you say that!

~Ulrika~

It's very easy to say, because it's true. It's just not true all the time. Usually I just figure that other folks have different hot buttons than I do, or that there's a history between certain individuals. Sometimes though, I wonder if there are people on these forums who just thrive on conflict. Ever notice how quick people are to insult eachother's intelligence?

Anyway, I wasn't singling anyone out, and I wasn't referring to this thread in particular. I'm just saying that with all the opinions, beliefs, and temperments zipping around these forums, even the nicest person is bound to offend somebody, sometime. Don't be surprised when it happens.

You know I was kidding around right?

I actually agree with you completely.

~Ulrika~

There's some stuff in SL and the world in general I just can't even relate to. I try to wrap my mind around it but alas, the Torleybrain is not designed for such things, so I don't even have to try to ignore it: I just don't understand it... so I go on my merry, cheery way.

So I am safe in assuming no one has an answer to this question?

My guess is nothing, since they won't have jurisdiction over you or your land.