LL Rejects Players' Bill of Rights

Read all about it at the Herald.

http://www.dragonscoveherald.com/blog/index.php?p=950

Or Clickable Culture. Whatever floats your boat.
http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickableculture/entry/no_bill_of_rights_for_second_life_residents/

Kremlinden Lab? No wonder why it was rejected.

Heh, dont count me suprised. It wasnt exactly a brilliant proposal (hell, if we could vote against proposals; that one would be the recipiant of a few of my antivotes.)

LL is a company NOT a government.

Simply put, proposals were meant to suggest new "features". A bill of rights is not a feature, its policy. To use a RL analogy, its like comparing a funding bill for a new road with an amendment to the Constitution. Purely an apples and oranges comparison.

I don't think this says a thing, other than the voting tool is ineffective.

I don't understand your reasoning. "New features" lead to policy amendments in RL all of the time. Gibbons v. Ogden, a landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision in 1824, even involved funding and permissions for construction of a ferry and a road - and established the precedent of federal supremacy over the state. Separating the two is an artificial convenience; in general, these sorts of issues don't work that way.

Y'all keep repeating the mantra of "LL is a company, not a government" over and over, as if it means something. It may mean quite a lot, if the product is a game. If the product is a virtual community, on the other hand, then it's more complicated and may eventually become fodder for the courts to interpret. And often courts don't deal in the sort of implacable logic-of-the-script so familiar to SL.

similar to the US bill of rights?

Come on.

Egotistical maniacism.

There should be a counter-voting system or opposition. But there isn't. Where's your democracy now?

This is getting to the point of really big stupid.

Democracy means nothing when corporations are given entity status. Besides, SL isn't a country and never will be. The land isn't real. If LL went out of business tomorrow, there'd be nothing you could do about it. A 'bill of rights' is meaningless when we clearly have a ToS and CS agreement with LL. The only thing I could see happening is maybe an SLA for people who own sims. That's about it.

This isn't visionary or revolutionary. This is BS. Plain and simple.

</annoyed>

How... How is this "Bill or Rights" for SL any different then how SL is now?

Freedom of Speech- Have that. Of course theres a limit to the amount that people can say, but they are things that shouldn't be said in the first place.

Freedom of Expression in Builds- We have that too, but of course with some limit. If you build a giant penis with nazi carvings in it while a black man dangles from a rope at the end, then that may be crossing line.

Freedom of Press- I can't think of any examples of anyone not being able to use freespeech press in SL. Same limit goes as freedom of speech though.

Freedom to Bear Arms in Combat Area- Well duh.

The Right to Know Charges- I wouldn't really put this under bill of rights. More likely under lazy Lindens. But for the most part, you are informed of your act of naughty post-conviction.

The Right of appeal- You do have that right already, but doesn't mean you'll get off the hook.


For the most part, it seems like this SL Bill or Rights is more of a scapegoat for people to do stupid things and get away with it.

You are displaying a disappointing combination of ignorance and annoyance.

I suggest that instead of posting mockery that masquerades as satire, that you seek to understand the philosophy of those who wish to establish rights for virtual citizens. You will then be able to address them as equals with intelligent arguments instead of mocking them like a child from a position of ignorance.

~Ulrika~

Ha, take that Right of Freespeech!

What is it about the last name "Neva"?

~Ulrika~

We are the last crusade against hypocrisy and stupidisium.

Never say Neva again.

Feature != company standard

Nothing that bottom-feeding trash blog pretending to be a "newspaper" writes surprises me. Yet another bullshit Russian reference - hmm, who does that remind one of?

Sure is bizarre how they go out of their way to trash LL over there, yet most of those "journalists" hardly ever say a word here... Such conviction and fortitude!

It's really a hoot, when they shoot off their mouths before they even have all the info...

Or when they edit people for things they routinely let you-know-who get away with...

Linden Lab sucks! So here's some more money! Take that!

You're a customer. You have no rights. This is not the metaverse. It's a game. Have fun!

I live in the UK, not the USA and as such have no desire to live under an American style of government in RL or SL.

What next? SL to adopt American constitution? What about SL users from Louisiana - would they have to have their own form of Napoleonic law in SL? How about British SL users living under British-style SL laws? Then SL would have no guns at all.

The SL Bill of Rights and Constitution is the Community Standards and the Terms of Service. Period. Everything else is so much meaningless fluff.

Besides, I wouldn't want to be governed by a Bill of Rights my fellow players set up anyway. It'd be oppression of the majority by the minority, no matter how you cut it.

LF

Seth, until the day comes when the members of this community have our own laws, courts, and police force, LL IS a company and this is closer to a 'game' paradigm than a community.

We're a community in that we create our own culture. But so far we have absolutely no power to govern ourselves. That's one reason I've found the exercises of the Justice Watch and their spin-offs to be venues for futile speech-making and nothing more.

I don't see why any corporation should be expected to include a bill of rights for customers in their online environment/platform/game. We all signed up under the rules Linden Labs set for us. Just because Linden Labs says no to a few customers (and I say few based on the much larger number of players in world), one calls them KremLindens and another becomes condescending to fellow players who do not agree that a Bill of Rights is appropriate for an international game/platform/community? *shakes head in disgust* Might I suggest that perhaps these responses are why some "lurkers" never post?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion in the forums without getting attacked individually.

*notes my last name is not Neva either*

angel

Well, Phillip is still considering the idea. And wants to discuss it further he states. It just was not something that would be considered a "feature" of SL, it would be more like a "policy", and therefore did not belong on the "Feature Voting".

We already have a bill or rights. The bill gets charged to your credit card and it gives you the right to log in and use the service under the terms and conditions you already agreed to.

My point exactly.

And at the risk of being boring, I'll make the point again - the difference between a "feature" and a "policy" is often a meaningless contrivance. In this case, that would certainly be true.