We need a gouvernment

Hypocrit much?

No, because I don't own the welcome area.

I was merely making suggestions about how the welcome area experience could be improved, and it's up to LL whether they want to do anything about the situation I describe. If they don't, as it's their land, it's their choice.

Lewis

There are already Governments in Second Life.

I am the Foreign Minister of the city of Ar. Other sims nearby also have government,Torvaldsland, Anango, Port Cos, Port Kar, Transylvania/Vampire Empire, Treve, Etc.

All functions of Government can be found in these and many other sims.

lots of goverments in SL, I govern 73840sm

You may all refer to me as 'Your Lord High Mucky Muck'.

My 2 cents where common sense is a uncommon thing!!! Want to have GOVERMENT do it on your own LAND. DON'T impose it on me or anyone else who not want it. I'm not here for more government. I have enough of it in RL.

Really want more government BUY your OWN SIM!! There you can be the Owner/Government/ King whatever.... if you need it that bad of your own land.

On my Sim i'm the government if that. Its my Island, I make the rules, I pay for it, (Other than Linden already governing over me already) I am Lord or whatever i call it there. My land is my Kingdom. BUY i not need your Goverment in SL over me or My Island. I Hate the Government as much as it is interfearing with my life or your life as it is.

Hmmm..i used to live on mainland....Hated it.....I not infringue on your right.....So I got my own land so i can run it the way i want to, not interfear with you or anyone else on the mainland or Islands. I guess i'm the government...but i'm level headed with my 2 cents. But its all my own land. My Island is my own country on the SL Grid if you look at it as that....for $195 a month i pay world Tax to the UN (Lindens) you too can be the government too. Just not impose your views of your government on anyone else all over SL ..... ON THEIR OWN LAND or on my Soverign Island Country!!. Do whatever you want on your own land. Just not tell me what to do in my own island country on the SL world Map.

My 2 cents!!

I don't know why you are so agressive but I have an advice for you: Calm down!

First of all, i've never written, that i want to take over your sim. So Calm down!

Secondly, I was just complaining that the mainland looks like crap. I was new to SL and I didnt know, that there are some really cool places. -> Calm down, dude!

Thirdly, that was exactly my idea. To gather up some friends to buy some land in order to create such an environment. I dont want to impose anything on anybody. I dont even have the "power" to do that. After all i'm not a linden . Just daydreaming... So calm down or you will explode.

Mad (no I'm not mad at the moment. Just chillin')

Are you sure it's a gouvernment we need?
I believe in democracy. Lets say its the least bad social system yet. Our forefathers have tried a few different ones... Didn't seem to work.
Im european and live in a federal democracy.
If a gouvernment:
- How much "power" will it have?
- and how much of this power will be real? Cause LL stays in charge anyhow.
And this gouvernment should at least have the power to enforce the law (that's what gouvernments do!)...

I don't think this quest will be so easy.

Facing the fact that LL will be king forever and that they don't always act as a country but more as a business (which is very normal I think) makes it impossible even to think we could ever have a democratic gouvernment.

But Im very sure we need a more steady environment "to live and work in". So we do need some rules and laws. Certainly for economy! Like in RL we're dealing here with real "monopoly"money, at least it has value. So we do need fair trade agreements and maybe in the long run an in-world stockmarket (LL is probably thinking of it too and they don't need a gouvernment to do that).

I suggest maybe we need more like a democratic "playerscouncil". In SL-reality it 'll probably be more like a union... (in the good sense). Or something like that.
Because the way it's run now it's a form of "dictatorship" (and this interpreted in its most objective sense!!). "Dictatorial" systems doesn't have to be by definition negative. If the "dictator" runs his show in a fair way and is good for his people, there is no problem (I refer to Plato's writings; he also really tried it a few times, but it didn't seem to work in practice).

But anyhow, if there would be a gouvernment it'll open up a whole new kind of business and economy! But even before you have a gouvernement you will already need rules to do these campaigns.
Yes, it would be cool to have a run for gouvernment in-world with real campaigns and debates, possibilities are wide open!! Also will be the lobbies. Guess which lobby will be the biggest one??????? Indeed...

Conclusion
LL: King and emperor
no rules => anarchy => medieval structures => the rich get richer the poor will be poor...
rules => gouvernment => enforced laws => imp. consequence: new giant market!!!!

So I believe we do need somekind of representation of the players. It's a world we live in...

Mad for president, I say....

Bad idea..

I think there should and can be places within SL that have governments of various kinds but installing a single government for all of SL is short-sighted and takes away our ability to explore and try new systems of society (and yes, anarchy is a form of society) within this virtual space.

If we model everything within the game to function identically to the real world, we will succeed in doing nothing more than making a VR experience that sucks just as much as real life. Why would anyone want to 'play' that?

I think Second Life imposing Laws of The Universe is necessary to prevent end-user abuse but those laws should be kept as few and immobile as the laws of physics in the real world. Regulation should be limited to lands/islands that make their own.

Hoby

OMGIMPEACHBUSHLOLZ

No government for me thanks, go make your own island. As for the rich keep getting richer in an anarchy, look at the US today. Its a government and the rick get richer while the poor are taxed more.

I dont know wether u guys cant read or dont want to understand. I said that I want to do this on my own sim (if I ever get to own one). I never said that i want the whole SL world should be like that.

I think we need a government, with a sheriff and lawyers and courts, and have lawsuits against people who cheat you

i am for of any goverment you want as long as they have no executive power, so they can talk and do meetings and all thet goverment do but they can't impose anything on me.

The only good government is a toothless government

If we go and make a government, we will just have to overthrow it. Who has the time or energy for that? Although the shoemakers might like it for all the tassled loafers they could sell to the lobbyists.

'anarchy' i.e. lack of formalized standing hierarchy/hierarchal soverignty, worked just fine for indiginous cultures for tens of thousands of years.

and NONmonetary economies can work just fine without guns too.
at least for sure if and when the're not being invaded by anyone else and not likely to.

a kind of modified potlatching, with the institutions of craftufacturing center and mathom house, and driven by the honor of creating and shairing beauty can work just fine.

sure comfort zone depends upon infrastructure
and infrastructure depends on some degree/method of social organization
but social organization does not depend on hierarchy
and even comfort zone optional (in nature)

i don't know if anyone is doing a regeon/sim (are they called?) here yet based on such principals, but if there are, i would be happy to build and give with no other compensation to live there, othere then being allowed to continue to build, once i learn how.

which in this sl universe i have yet to.

such a zone would of course not have exclusionary 'real estate' but be held in joint trust administered by defacto tribal elders.

i really see no intrinsic reason nonhierarchal soverignty and/or nonmonitary 'economics' should be objectionable when not imposed upon anyone not wishing to live in/with them.

tecnology, alternative energy and transportation infrastructure, are by no means intrinsicly precluded by such a context either.

the only thing it would take for 'anarchy' to work, is for everyone joining it to dicipline themselves. which would just mean not invading or modifying the small amout of space anyone else was actualy living in, or of cours sabotaging the public energy and transportation infrastructures.

is that so unimaginably inconceivable?

=^^=
.../\...

Fingol, you might like some background concerning your new kind of sim ownership:

You'd get the kind of freedom to set up an experiment like this if it's based on a private island, not the main grid. On the main grid different parcels belong to different people, and they might want no system or their own system. Those parcels can be sold any time to new people who might want some entirely different system or no system. However a private island has one owner, and that person is responsible to Linden for making the payments.

In your case, your joint trust would be something the one owner sets up, perhaps as an agreement among friends. The others pay monthly to that one person, but LL doesn't deal with them.

You sound fairly optimistic about anarchy working in SL!

Conceivable? Sure! Doable? Well, somebody has to pay for it. You express an interest in building on a sim with this kind of organization. First figure out how much per month you are prepared to pay as your share, then find enough other people who are willing to share the financial committment.

I propose an Empire, with me as the Emperor and all of you as my minions.

I hope I express the idea right

I propose a state of intoxication lead by one Jack Daniels, Impeach Bush would be relegated to just an impish push and the rest of SL would be but a blur. all those with me say "Cheers!".

Well, I personally think you all should unite under my bbaner as members of the glorious Fourth Karsian Empire.

But seriously... its a decent idea, but there's one issue. Where do things like ugoly builds with particle spewers and sex balls all over come from? THere'[s alarge number.. almost a majority... of those who relaly couldn't care less about nice builds or whatnot. And a government has to involve them, by its nature. Not because of fairness, I say screw that, fairness has nothing to do with a functioning government, but just the law of numbers. We rational types are horridly outnumbered.

And thne there's the question of enforcement...it would relaly only be enforceable n a private sim
I have more to say, I know it... but I just work up, so I'm gonna just run for the caffinated tea and perhaps return after I have woken p

The very reason I chose to come here is because it does not have a government.

It seems to me to be a reasonably free hand environment. I like it that way.

While behavior can be regulated Linden Labs seems to have taken a mostly hands
off approach.

Let the milk settle, the cream will always rise to the top.

I like that a lot. And I hope it stays that way for as long as SL exists.

First of all, while a government and significant structure in our hectic in world lives seems relatively interesting I am cautious about throwing all my support behind a resident run government. Personally, if we got a structure built and documented before putting it out on the table, i would support it. However, there are some avys out there who are rebellious to the core and the thought of people they dislike running the SL experience might cause some problems. NOW, This might work. Think of Linden Labs as congress or the house of representatives and the residents as the Presidential Administration. Linden Labs could sit in the background running things while the foremost representative for the will of the residents coordinates ideas put forth by the people to Linden Labs. At which point Linden Labs can put it into action. Linden Labs needs to be able to back the decisions of the general population while handling the complaints of the people who don't agree with a government. Because THERE WILL BE REBELLIOUS PEOPLE OUT THERE! And they still count as residents. Just because they don't agree with the setup doesn't mean they should be pushed aside as outcast (if that is an appropiate word to describe the class). But also, what about power trips within the administration? The question is how much power do you want to give our liasion to linden labs?

One more time, we do not need a _government_. This is not the 51st state of the US, it's a FANTASY WORLD THAT EXISTS ONLY ON A HARD DRIVE IN CALIFORNIA.

The only relevant government in SL is LL.

Well... a few thousand hard drives.



P2

you need a few 1000 hard drives for 20 mb ?