Do you sell cheap on GOM?

When you ask if I've lived in any other countries, you had a reason for asking. You may have figured you could win this argument by saying, ah-hah, you're just another yahoo American without a passport. This is a very common reference on the left in the US and in Europe, that Americans are "without passports". So this particular U.S. citizen not only has passports, but even with many pages added to them, so not to worry.

It's a cliche that George Bush got a passport very late in life. And there are many US senators even without foreign passports, or so the story goes. This is supposed to indicate their yahoo status.

So I just wanted to put that particular prejudice to rest, is all.

Since I've lived under various types of systems, I have totally broadened my mind, not to worry.

Have you broadened yours? Or are you going to run at the first sign of conflict? It's not wrong to debate and have conflict. Indeed, there are deep and severe conflicts in SL that people are often unaware of, and think they can just paper over. It will crack and split as it grows older if people don't become aware of these issues and debate them intensively and manage the conflict, and that doesn't mean silencing dissenters in the name of forcing them to "get along with the connected kung-fu content creators". I think it's all right to debate like that and I am not afraid of fancy kung-fu content creators. I'm their customer -- or was, until they dissed me.

Debate, and strenous debate, is MORE THAN FINE, especially when it comes to the kind of serious campaigns that some players seem to be calling on other players to engage in, and trying to agitate the Lindens to change, namely:

-- campaigns to get the Lindens to change the auction system and tax the land barons first at auctions and then for rapid transactions of group lands ( a campaign that would hurt non-profit as well as for-profit groups)
-- campaigns to get people to never sell low on GOM for some fake "public interest" which in fact is the interest of the rich and famous who park large packets on there
-- campaigns to force people to take their advertising out of the game and never distribute notecards or push for in-game listings of advertising
-- campaigns against malls

etc. etc.

In other words, it's a socialist-style, anti-business, anti-capitalist climate we are living in. This is not a climate that grows to a million players.

Well I guess I should say thanks, since I had never heard this particular argument. Many Americans are parochial, so I guess I can see where that attitude might come from. Not a prejudice I happen to share though.

Yeah, my reason for asking was to get information. To get some perspective on what your point of view was shaped by. An effort to understand where you were coming from. I thought we might be able to have a real discussion. Sorry, no hidden agenda.

As for running from conflict... nope. I'm just not interesting in having a discussion with someone who consistantly seems to assume insult. I have a reputation as a very up front person. I say exactly what I mean. If I think you're a fucktard, I will just come right out and say it -- to your face, no guessing required.

What I do think is that trying to have a civil and interesting discussion with you is impossible, or at least more difficult than I am interested in putting any time into.

Surreal

I think rich is like a state of mind... I'm pretty rich in personality - friends...

But eh... I don't spend crap in game - mainly because it's so much fun to make whatever I want or need.. so when I throw my L$ at the GOM it's for whatever they go for...

..mainly because for me it's pretty much ALL profit, and I can't be arsed getting out the Gordon Gecko Jr action playset Ferran bought me for my birthday.

To each their own... fuggit!

Siggy.

Awwww Dont be sad that I didnt get you the Magic penis game.....

... and the entire point of this thread has been lost on classicism and blatant disregard for the subject of scrutiny.

Is it so hard to believe that scrutiny of market trends is also part of the market?

Tell me which of you is a professional economist or mutual funds manager?

I simply was hoping to engage discussion on buying and selling trends on GOM; and in particular the one that is happening now where indiscriminate amounts of L$ are selling for L$0.01 less.

So unless you can stay on track and continue the intended discussion of this thread; leave and start a different one if you wish.

Good day.

I'll always be amazed at how things quickly turn on these forums, really. CHILL OUT, people. There isn't ONE single day without at least one person jumping on their high horses/dashing out attacks/trolling/feeling offended/offending, when keeping one's head somewhat cold, all that simply, would avoid such situations.

As for selling low on GOM? I'll just put my personal 2 cents in: I never sell under 4$ a block, period. If the order has to sit for 1 week before someone fills it, then be it (never had to wait that long though). I'm not rich, I don't cash out 100,000 $L every week, I don't need this money to pay my RL bills in emergency (I'd never count on a game for that), so it's no biggie, and I VERY MUCH doubt that anyone has had to wait for long weeks or even months to have one filled, either. Sure, other factors determine the value of the L$, but let's just say that selling cheaper and cheaper in hopes of selling fast sure *isn't* helping any. Maybe we should all chill out about this, in fact, and for those of us who don't perform really high transactions in SL, remember that, all in all, it's nothing more than a nice little plus, or pocket money, in a way.

This said, to each his/her own agenda. The only fact we can be sure of is that we'll never get to sell L$ for a lot AND get to buy them cheap at the same time *shrugs*

Tanaquil, sure, it makes you and others uncomfortable to see strong debate and conflict. But that's because it exists, and you can't paper it over.

You are fueling it yourself, by feigning to be a peacemaker and calling on people to "chill," and then going right about taking one side in the debate (which is your right), by castigating those individuals who sell low.

From the moment the thread open, the underlying assumption was this: let's see if we can smoke those low-lifes who sell low on the GOM, get them to justify their actions, and jump on them and see if we can't shame them into stopping this practice. Perhaps the original poster merely was curious to understand this behavior, without a judgemental agenda, but I sincerely doubt it. There are two kinds of people annoyed at those who sell low: a) the rich, who would like their packets to sell faster for more money (you see, they are no different than the low-lifes because they want higher value so they can sell faster and get out and b) those who style themselves as community-builders, social-democrats, let's-all-get-along types who think there is "damage to the community" (they've set themselves up as arbiters of what this is) and they need to blow the whistle on those who "damage the community".

Take a look at what you've said:



Translation: I'm not a low-life, I sell at what the rate is "supposed" to be because I've decided that and/or I've listened to some large trader or auction bidder who has "decided" this, consciously or unconsciously. I don't care about letting a market find out what something is really worth. I do the right thing, I sell at the "perfect" $4.00, and others who sell lower are to be despised.



Translation: I'm prudent, patient, and I "care about the community". Others who don't do that are irrational, rash, and "don't care".



Translation: I'm not like "those other people" who put large packets on there and need them to sell, I'm only an occasional user, so I'm not tainted by commerce like these other people with large transactions who are a bit beneath me.



Translation: I'm superior and well-to-do in RL, or at least enough never to be turning to a game for cash. People who would cash out to, say, do Christmas shopping must not have their affairs in order and if they count on a game to make money, they must be chumps, or worse, sickos who suffer from something like a gambling addiction. (Of course, I'll leave aside the issue of why I ever put money in a game, if I'm so prudent.)

.

Translation: I'm pretending not to notice the hundreds of orders for over $4.00 on here and won't ask myself why they don't have dates next to them.

.

Translation: I'm pretending to have an open mind in this debate, but what I really believe is that yes, people selling lower are "ruining the economy".

Why? Because I park my packets on there and am willing to wait for days until they sell. So those low-lifes who sell low personally hurt ME.


OHhhhhhhhh! We're finally getting somewhere! So what you're saying is that low-lifes who sell low hurt YOU because you'd like to get a higher price for your packets. Well, thanks! You could have said that miles ago. Instead of yammering on about "the good of the economy" and inciting public hatred of "low-lifes who sell low" you might have confessed what is the real problem here: the market, when it isn't controlled to suit just you, is not to your liking. You wish it was a fixed, regulated exchange that somebody artificially kept high -- in fact, not a market.

Well, why didn't you say so?




Well, sure, we're chilling. But I'm thinking the top auction bidders like Anshe and Schwanson probably put so much time and work into their SL business that it is more like a part-time job or a full-time RL job for them. And my hat's off to them! I don't have scorn for those who "perform really high transactions" -- they help to float all our boats. But you do! You've just said so by indicating that "you're not like those people".

And the high-transactors, and others can begin to have SL cease to be a game, and be something more tied to the real life and its values when SL stops being a haven for socialists and state capitalists who want to control free markets so it suits THEM, all the while pretending they're looking out "for the little guy".

If you're angry at me "putting words into your mouth" keep in mind it is not personal. I'm parsing out your words and thoughts but not singling you out -- your beliefs reflect that of many of the posters here, and many in the community.

Do you want a free market and a game with a million people in it -- YOUR customers! -- or do you want to keep playing village in your sandbox?

I love you Flipper

While I'm sure you are a very intelligent person, your ASSumptions are not helping this discussion.

I shouldn've have to vindicate myself from you and go into a long-winded explanations of my motivations for discussing this issue. But I will tell you for the FINAL time:

THIS discussion has NOTHING to do with classicism.

Nobody is smoking anyone out or any stupid BS like that.

Now get on topic or take it elsewhere. Please.

icon, she may seem whacked, but she's got your number. your question was biased.

I would gladly continue the conversation, let us just keep attacks out of this. We obviously have differences in opinions, that is what makes debates such as these so fun to me.
I have just reread this thread and think a few people got a bit angry and posted in haste.

I was in NO way trying to monitor or force anyone to do what they do not feel is right. I was not trying to insult or demean Profoky. Profoky is very passionate about this world, I admire that. He does however tend to make some pretty wild assumptions and go on the defensive hastily, this may be a result from other experiences in these forums.

I think discussions like these can help enlighten people on both sides of an issue, even if they never reach an agreement. I always try to look at all sides in an issue, and even if I disagree, I usually gain some insight as to the opposition's view point.
Can't we all just get along?

Your rational thinking and good will has no place here. Get the hell out.

Uhm, Prokofy... Your answer and some of the others are exactly why I said "chill out, people"... I'm not looking to close my eyes on debates, but really, this isn't "strong debate", I'm sorry; this is just the way too many threads on these forums unfortunately turn into, a.k.a flame-fests, cock showing, climbing on one's high horses, and dishing out of attacks as soon as someone's opinion differs. Who does want to "debate" in such conditions, really? Especially if what they get in turn is, as you said, "putting words in your mouth". Maybe I don't have enough practice yet to properly word my thoughts in a language that isn't my own, but I seriously doubt that even in my deepest subconscious I've ever thought of this in terms of "low-life people", or thinking myself better than those who cash a lot.

To be honest, my first reaction was "WTF?" and a good laugh, as I honestly fail to see where all of this "translation" took its roots. I'm not that twisted a person, really; when I mention that it's in the interest of all to have a L$ a little stronger, I don't give a rat's ass about pretending that I'm all about "community love", I'm just stating simple matter of economics here; when I say I don't need this money to pay my RL bills in emergency, it means what it means, that I plan my bills according to my RL income, and not count on the very fluctuating income I can get from sales in game. If this is hiding some nasty meanin g in your book, then so be it, but you're probably the only one to read this between my lines. *shrugs*

I will agree with Schwanson on this, we really don't need to take on harsh tones and post in haste regarding such topics. Person A won't necessarily convince person B to his/her cause, but as long as things stay civil, yes, it's enjoyable. So I'll say it again: let's chill out. If something in a thread irks us, let's take a deep breath and come back later to see if it's still worth posting the first (often angry) answer we had thought of. Usually, it won't be, and we'll all spare ourselves a good dose of anger and frustration.

Yes and some people get so uncomfortable with it they attack you in game by neg rating you, and not even brave enough to do it to your face LOL

But to answer, Icon, I sell high as I can and never in a large block.

Biased?

I have no authority over anything to be biased.

I always appreciated the input of every member of SL, but it is aggravating to discuss a topic when people start assuming your intentions.

Frankly; none of you know me well enough to assume anything about my motivations.

Besides, how am I manipulating the markets by asking some honest questions?

Is discussion discouraged?

i said - "your question was biased"

that means inherent in the wording is a specific meaning, or that it leads to certain answers. regardless of your intentions.


chill dude.

100% true.

If Icon asked if you bought cheeseburgers from McDonald's, would that be biased?

If I said why I thought buying French fries instead was better, Well I guess I would be a marxist oligarch, and deserve to be neg rated, how dare my opinion differ from cheeseburgers.

enough qualifications! do you or do you not favour french fries? answer the question and prepare for the consequences. i have 3 L$ with your names all over them!

What you describe I would call a certain kind of conversational trick, often employed by those with a certain intent.

Given that I simply asked this question to discuss a trend I've seen happening on GOM, I wasn't in fact culling any sort of reaction or answer.

Can you believe that I just wanted to talk about the current selling trend on GOM?

It's not exactly a federal crime in RL to talk about such things... so I don't understand why there is such backlash to this discussion and such a need to make it personal, to start assuming my motivations, to get off-topic, and to get so passionate over something this dicussion was never meant to be about.

So for the last time -- I never had any intent other than to discuss a perfectly legitimate topic.

"Can you believe that I just wanted to talk about the current selling trend on GOM?"
Yes.

Actually, it may be a federal crime. A group of people or companies colluding to arrange a minimum price for something is known as "price fixing", and a lot of what I saw in this thread, particularly the early parts, was people encouraging others to engage in it.

icon, all people have to deal with is what you put out to them, icon. you ask why you are getting the kind of responses you are when all you wanted was a discussion on "do you sell cheap on GOM?"

there is a bias in the question that if you sold for less that 4.00 that this is cheap, ie not the normal value. so while you post, quoted below, was probably more representative of your intended discussion, you title biased some people and upset others.

personally, i sold "cheap" on GOM a few times since they lowered the commission for holidays. i think i did, anyway, but i'm not certain. selling for 4.08 before was the same as selling for 3.99 with the rebate.

but now i'm selling to IGE because at the moment, it's easier and hassle free. whatever gets me the best rate.

Oh my! Schwanson is guilty for being rich fat cat!

All that Tiger's listing give information about is turnover. This is not same as profit. If somebody completely poor borrow 100 US$ and use it to buy and sell one piece of land every week then this person already beat Schwanson on this list.

As far as I know, all big "land barons" in Second Life belong to middle class of developed countries. None is rich. Rich person would not bother trying resell land with profit. The same applies to creators who sell their products. The really rich people I met online sofar all belong to consumer class or are hobbyist creators.

Having said this, being rich is not bad thing. I hope one day I manage become fat rich cat I think 50 more years spend 60 hours per week do business in SL and I might manage

Is it a federal crime to discuss trends in the market in a public forum? From what I read, it seems some people where advocating selling immediately at whatever price, others where saying take your time and get a better price.

col·lu·sion (k-lzhn)
NOUN:
A secret agreement between two or more parties for a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose.

I see no collusion in this thread, just a discussion as to various market strategies.

Discussing trends and strategies in an open forum is not price fixing.