First Land inquiry (flamers go away)

Pls Read before posting your reply:
I was reading the last post on First Land and I have to say that I really wanted to talk about the whole First Land thing WITHOUT having to deal with people flamming, harassing and baiting each other. So please, don't start here. Please.

Now to the actual post:

Anyway, having said that, and since the First Land batches aren't up yet, there are some questions that First Land users like myself want to ask. Tips, and all that.

1.) For one thing, what's the estimated time when First Land becomes available when they ran out?

2.) Are there tips as to what choice lands to get?

3.) Are there usually first land with a water front / beach front? Or are they all situated in the middle of some region? I'd like to know so I can stop hoping and pining for a piece of water front or beachfront land.

4.) How do I know if the land i'm buying from is a commercial or residential sim? The last few First Land sims were mostly surrounded by houses, some stores and houses but mostly houses. And frankly the idea of putting up my shop surrounded by houses seem to be inappropriate. And for that matter, who decides if the place is residential or not? I remember some posts back about residents complaining about clubs so close to their homes. I mean if the sims are 'free for all do whatever you like' then doesnt that mean that having a noisy club in the middle of a 'village' be normal, and the residents have no right to complain about it? @_@ I r all confused...

5.) Can you alter the terrain on your first land?

6.) Does buying land other than First Land forfeit your chances of buying First Land? I couldn't find a clear answer for this one.

7.) Are there any future plans to alter First Land in the next so and so months? Like limitation to alts of the same credit card to own land, allowing alts in one credit card to pool to get a tier free land, etc (if there's a better deal soon, i'd rather wait for that)

8.) Is there an expiration on the buying of First Land? Like me, I didn't buy First Land immediately when I signed my premium account, so I'm not sure just how long I can hold out in buying land before the offer 'expires'.

Well that's all for now!

Usually a day or two, sometimes up to a week.



If your looking for resale value, you want mature, flat, with a waterway in close proximity (ideally bordering)



Occasionally. Usually a portion of a new region will be subdivided off, then split into 512m plots for first land. If they do appear, they will dissapear quickly. To make a shameless plug, the Azure Islands usually has some land fitting that description (water/beach), for L$1/sqm.



All the land on the mainland isnt zoned, so anyone can build virtually anything there. (With exception to the Mature/PG rules which dominate various regions). Usually the way to tell, is distance to the telehub. If it's close to the telehub, then there will be a higher proportion of shops.



Yes, by +/- 4m.



Yes it does.



Linden Lab hasnt said anything on this topic, so I'd assume no.



No, there's no expiration time.

-Adam

Thank you! You have no idea how helpful your answers are. And don't worry about the 'shameless plug'. You've just solved my dilemma really. If ever I'm impatient and I can't get the land I want I'll probably just grab any mature plot resell and buy land from the azure islands.


A question though, if you sell off your 512 sqm tier-less land, does this mean that the next 512 sqm you buy will be tiered?


Also will the azure islands have the same going rate as the residential areas of the island? And if the islands are full will they be getting a new island anytime soon?

Heh, no problem --

Your first '512' sqm of tier is always included with your premium account, so if you sell it off, you will still have 512sqm of included tier availible, should you decide to buy another plot.

Azure islands are usually full (we do have a little bit free right now, because we put up a new sim three days ago. However, we are constantly adding new sims , you can drop myself, Nexus Nash, splat1 Edison, David Jacobs or Chage McCoy an IM anytime if you have any questions (or requests).

-Adam

No, you don't go to the next tier until you surpass 512m².
Most island sims don't get First Land. All property for sale not part of First Land will be sold at whatever rates people want to sell them at.
Count on it, though there's a lot of empty space right now these days. Many islands exist because people wanted to buy entire sims at a time. If you wanted to have a custom one, LL could just make a new one I suppose.

I have to agree on the advice about renting in a private sim... it beats the mainland price almost everytime and you get more terraformability. You may want to check the competition (Hiro Queso's, D'Alliez' or my own Fairland's rental services) too

As long as you're dealing with people you're confident you can trust—often from word of mouth, like your friends moved to a privately-owned continent earlier and have been HAPPY for some months—you should be in good hands.

I do think it points to the future too, where there's such supply for so many types of communities and themed areas that LL cannot provide themselves, so Residents be cookin' up a tasty stew.

There are some things just plain not done on the Linden mainland. Uh, tropical beaches and deserts, for example, due to not having more diversity with textures. Me? I'm looking for more crazy fantasylands, maybe where the ground is purple, filled with a load of people who are into that kind of thing. We already have places called Purple and Mauve, but ULTRAVIOLET would be a good name for a sim and I digress now... anyhoo!

Let me know how it turns out, Yuriko. Best of hope! (I dig this flameless, but still very hot, thread too.) ^_^

Thanks. Rest assured I'll be visiting some rented land very soon.

Given where I'm from, SL prices are way too expensive, so I hold no hope in owning my own sim or land more than 512sqm (unless my business booms like crazy).

I'm interested also in the rental schemes of the other places, brochures and the like. ^_~ *hint hint*

Yes, I'm trying to keep this thread flame free for the benefit of the newbies. Kinda hard to get the right information under all the dregs. ^_~

I bought first land and I'm kind of sorry I did. Its not enough land.

None of the prefab houses will fit on a 512 plot. The only one I found that did has a door so small I would have to midget-ize my AV to get it in the door. As would all my friends. I've contacted the builder so hopefully he will be able to fix it.

I was going to inquire about the Azure Islands land and maybe sell off my first land. Is the monthly fee (US$) that goes to Azure instead of what you pay LL or in addition to that fee?

It's in addition/instead of. You don't need land tier, you pay rent to the island sim owner instead. So it's up to you if you want to tier down to basic. Why not keep premium (after all, its worth it just for the L$), rent out your 512 plot on the mainland, and then get a bigger plot in a residentially zoned community

I am definitely interested. Are you going to be in game tonight? I'd like to talk to you more about it and see the property.

It's a relatively recent phenomenon that they run out. I would expect to see new First Land before Monday.



Yes, and I go into this extensively during my Land Ownership 101 class (next running, today (Thursday) at 7:00 p.m. The main factor to consider is PG vs. Mature as in other respects, most first land lots are pretty similar. Mature brings a higher resell price, but less desireable neighbors.



Before the second continent, there were often first land lots with shorelines. Nowadays, you might be lucky to be on the edge of a small lake, but most new sims with shorelines seem to go straight to auction with the all-land sims given over to first land.



What is built in a sim is entirely up to the residents. There are no zoning laws. You can complain, but nobody can be forced to move a club, or take down a store. If you want to put up a shop on your first land, you might want to look to be next to someone else who wants to do the same - ask around your fellow new residents. You might create a nice little village market area!



All normal land editing tools work on first land (first land becomes "normal" land as soon as you sell it, anyway). You can raise, lower, smooth, roughen and flatten your land.



Yes. Once you've bought any land, you cannot buy first land (it wouldn't be your first land, would it?!) This is why you should always buy a first land lot even if you have no intention of using it - sell it to a neighbor and help them out!



Only LL would know the answer to this, and I doubt they'd give advance notice.



The only way to lose the ability is to buy other land. You can wait as long as you like.

IM me in-game if you need more help!

For my first 6 months in SL, I specialized in making prefabs that were low prim (10-30 prims) and would fit well on First Land lots.

I don't know if I have any vendors still out there, but I'm working on a revamped line of houses and when it's ready it will definately include several designs for 512 m2 customers.

IMHO it makes no sense to sell prefabs that won't suit First Land - as by the time people are ready to buy a larger lot, they're probably ready to build their own house anyway!

There are some builders making quite a bit of money from more elaborate prefabs, I have noticed them popping up quite a bit in my own sims over the past few months. Not everyone wants to build, they just want their home to be there...like yesterday

I really don't have time to check, but I do hope the Azure Islands are not rented sims, or it seems perhaps someone is guilty of seriously misleading a newbie asking for help about first land, at least in their initial post mentioning it. By suggesting land that is, in the Linden view, not for sale at all, and is nothing whatsoever to do with First Land. I apologise if I missed it ( I'm in a hurry ) but I couldn't spot any initial attempt to make the distinction clear at all.

I think the best thing I can do is repost my long-standing explanatory notecard. A quick check suggests it is all still totally valid:

______________________________________________________________


Land Leasing Pros and Cons - or when is a Sale Not a Sale ?

Some residents may offer to "sell you land" which they "own" when in fact they are selling not land, but a transferable (resellable) rental agreement or lease giving the right to occupy land belonging to a landlord, who is another resident. These leases are often priced just below normal land value, and can appear misleadingly similar. You may be offered one of these by the landlord himself, who will hopefully be quite careful to explain the implications to you, or by the present leaseholder, who needs you to replace him and can normally charge you any "price" he likes, and whose communication skills may not be quite so good. If you are to consider this you need to be careful to understand the advantages and disadvantages of occupying land in this way. Detailed pros and cons are laid out below.

The big disadvantage: The Lindens have warned that you are entirely reliant on your landlord's honesty and continued presence in the game. He can evict you (or everyone) without compensation at any moment, so that you may lose your "purchase price", and LL have stated will they not intervene, or discipline him in any way. The lease is currently a private non-enforceable agreement between you and him. No such fraud has yet occurred, but the potential is there. There may be other risks associated with him falling ill, failing to make his payments to SL, or simply losing interest.

The big advantage: Your landlord may promise to act as a private police force, enforcing standards of behaviour and building quality in a way which LL will not. He will normally have a set of rules and guidelines which you and everyone else must obey on peril of land forfeiture. These "private sims" can look very nice, can be free of malls, clubs, and griefers, and can have attractive "themes".

Other aspects to consider are: Acquiring a plot, and transferring it to others, requires the attendance of the landlord, who alone has the power to do these things. You have to form a group to hold the lease (so that the landlord can act through it). This needs two other players, and costs L$100 to form. If you dont have two other players you trust, you can create two more characters (known as "alts" at a one-off cost of US19.90 (currently, May 2005, about L$5000). Apart from your inability to sell and advertise it normally via the "about land" dialogue (because the landlord still owns it) you have all the normal controls over your land. This only became possible recently, which is why this form of leasing is currently so new.

Since you are not the landowner, you do not need to pay a monthly (premium) subscription, thus saving US$9.95 per month (currently about L$2500). This is not as valuable as it looks, because paying it gets you L$1800 per month in extra stipend, which you lose if you stop. Neither (obviously) do you pay tier (land fees) to LL. Instead you pay rent directly to your landlord, which he may himself call "tier". If (as is often the case) you must pay in US$, you may be concerned that this makes the anonymity of your RL identity less secure.

Many landlords fix this rent at the same level as the tier you would otherwise pay as owner. (Though remember that LL charges no tier for 512m - this is why most leases offer 1024m minimum - the landlord cant afford to match LL's free 512m offer.) But any other pricing or timing arrangement is possible - whatever the landlord offers, and you agree. This rent flexibility can provide a further advantage in that you may be able to hold amounts of land sized just above a LL "tier boundary" whilst only paying a small proportional rent increment.

The key to recognising when you are being offered a lease rather than full land ownership is that you will be unable to buy the land on your own simply by clicking it, but will need someone to come transfer it to you, or will be referred to a website for details on "how to buy".

Ellie, would you grant me permission to distribute this notecard to my students? If so, please drop a copy on my profile in-world! It is extremely well-written and as I have no personal experience of land renting myself, I am aware that my classes are deficient of information in this area.

Absolutely free for anyone to use or distribute, so long as the text remains unchanged, and is in the context of a mention that "Ellie" wrote it. Just cut and paste from the forum is ok.

I drafted it quite carefully because I was most concerned at how easily people can be misled, maybe not by landlords, but certainly by tenants trying to "sell" on, who may not have fully understood it themselves.

A very well written balanced summary I would like to suggest one addition - to point out that these 'leases' are offered by some as not a purchase, but as a non transferrable rental agreement between landlord and resident. That this type of agreement requires no 'purchase price', and the resident is not obligated to find a replacement when he/she decides to move.

I only ask this be considered as an addition to avoid any confusion.

lol that sounded a little like an ad, perhaps you could word it better, as it wasn't meant to be. In the past I have posted about this for the same reason you have written the card. Now I am kinda watching my own back, and making sure that someone does not automatically equate this kind of 'deeding' to a form of 'ownership'.

Thanks guys for all the really helpful posts! Being a newbie, I don't really like the 512sqm of land considering it is too small even for a store (unless you don't plan on expanding) . It seems that for guys like me with limited RL income and can't really afford owning huge plots of sims due to tiering, renting/leasing/deeding can be an option.


If that's a case, I'm sure there are a lot of newbies out there who would like to know more details about the processes in leasing/deeds etc (the whole pros and cons post earlier was great, I'll be keeping a copy of it in my personal notecard for reference), like how does it work and all that.


On the side note, I'm also interested in knowing the rental rates of some 'sim estates' and what to expect in those kind of sims (like the terraforming option, zoning, mixed zoning, music streaming, and for my personal question of, if I put up a store in a rental estate, will others be able to search my store through the 'Find' tab?) .


I've seen then payment scheme for Azure Islands, but I'm also interested in the others as well. Kinda hard to just fly over land see what you like and have absolutely no idea what to do (especially if the owner isn't online--like me, my timezone is like 12hours ahead of mostly everybody else, which is also the reason why I can't go to any of the online classes ).


I'm interested in rentals as a second option, coz the way I see things right now, I'll probably getting first land for the purpose of reselling and hopefully afford some place nicer.

Again thanks and I hope you don't mind my questions.

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here to ask a question as well, but I was wondering - if you've already given your land allotment of 512m to a group before, and that group has bought land using your contribution, if you got your allotment back could you buy First Land? Or would the group buying land count as you buying land, even if you weren't the one who bought the land for the group? Hopefully this makes sense lol.

Actually I havent. ^^; But guys if you know the answer to her post, please answer since I don't really know.

Let's all help each other out here. ^_^v

very well written note card Ellie i am going to copy this and place it in a note giver at the hub of my rental sim meadowbrook.
this is very good information for anyone considering renting on a private island.

Once you contribute your land to a group, you are not eligible for first land. Even if you get the contribution back.