A response to the change in sim obsolescence strategy.

well people use them generally for the jus one or two seconds it takes to fly the heck out of them to their final destination. They very rarely have more'n 1-2 people in them at any given time. (there are of course exceptions to prove the rule as it were but overall telehub sims get very little staying traffic jus flyovers)

Same story with Borden. I was the first one to buy there (or maybe the second one), and the fps was 6000-7000. All of a sudden after a couple of weeks it went down to below 500 with 2-3 agents. CPU showed 1.0. One of the oldest CPU's is I understand now. Right now it is better, but still a long way from what it was when I purchased my land there. I've sold it all, will return to a basic subscription, and won't buy any new land till a fair system has been set up.

I'm not talking about auction costs Anshe. I'm talking about the specific setup fee that private island owners pay.

The things to consider here include:
1. While private island owners were SPECIFICALLY TOLD that their setup costs were to purchase new hardware, nothing that I can find says that that specific hardware will be for their island
2. While private island owners were SPECIFICALLY TOLD that their setup costs were to purchase new hardware, nothing that I can find says that that specific hardware will be used SOLELY for their island
3. Regardless of 1 and 2 above, some mainland land owners have paid more than private island owners have for their plots - the difference being that "startup/setup costs" were not included

As such, both sides appear justified in their concern for protection/guarantee of the value of their investment(s). OTOH, mainland land plot owners were specifically NEVER guaranteed anything - nothing has ever been suggested as a guarantee of performance for mainland sims... nothing.......at least as far as I can tell.

While it would seem "logical" that mainland land owners holding plots since beta/early non-beta might feel "owed" some sort of "reward" or compensation for sticking around/putting up with the growing pains as the grid exploded... the fact of the matter is that the current (and past) TOS doesn't guarantee or suggest anything of the sort. The TOS specifically states that performance is not guaranteed.. for anyone. LL doesn't owe you(me/whoever) a damn thing. They have covered their tracks well here.

That pretty much takes care of the "legal" argument.. which leaves only moralizing, ethical philosophizing and wishful thinking/emotionalism.

My bit of "wishful thinking"... the private island owners get the sims they "paid" for and they are stuck with those until they are at the bottom of the performance heap. They paid for intial purchase/setup...not continual upgrades ahead of the mainland. The mainland grid is pooled across the grid. That spreads the bad around as well as the good. To make it even more "fair", reset the grid and play "grid lotto" once a day. Seriously... this spreads the happiness and discontent equally. Somedays you will be happy and others you get the shit. But with tier 2 and 3(newest) servers outnumbering tier 1(oldest) servers, most people will have more average-to-good days than my-God-this-sucks days. Then, develop and institute some sort of metric where upgrades of tier 1 servers commences no later than mid-January and brings the entire grid to tier 2 performance standards. That buys you, LL, time to do some more research and performance testing and development.

Do I think this will happen? Not a freaking chance.

Essentially, LL will do whatever the hell it wants and this thread is unlikely to change a damn thing. As I see it, that is a simply fact of business... and part of the reason I never invested in a private islane... no guaranees and then the subsequent change in TOS illustrate that LL has a warped (IMHO) sense of corporate-to-customer loyalty when that comes into conflict with profit.

That's right folks I am bringing this thread back to life!!!!

*edit link ref remove HPro

Now why did I revive this post?

Because it's still a problem AND there is another issue. Currenty you can see the difference between server performance very clearly in Kumori and Amaterasu (less than 50 sims apart in the list, and Amaterasu fps is over 2K more / and there is a a very large store in amaterasu while next to nothing exists in Kumori). After the great Town Hall with Cory, everything was fixed back to what it should be, then last week during the final "upgrade" to SL, I dropped off 4000 fps(*edited to correct fps) and haven't gotten it back yet!!! I visibly experience more lag now in Kumori and Amaterasu. So is this still not fixed? I would love to get a time frame if possible.

What was this "other issue" I mentioned?

Well...though a lot of people wish to belittle LL and their attempts at getting help with developing their metaverse, some of us frequently try to track down bugs and lag-related issues. (Yes I pay them to help them fix their software! Yes I AM crazy! NO I will not discuss it any further in this thread! lol) However with a consistently changing server base, I can never be 100% sure what is being caused by scripts and what is being caused by server age. For example in this latest adventure, because my sim was "fixed" the day after Cory's Town Hall, I wrongly assumed that the fps drop in Kumori was MY fault with some of my latest scripts (which used SetTimerEvent [known lag causer] and GetWallClock). I spent numerous hours trying to "fix" the problem only to discover my sim had bumped back in time yet again. It would be a lot easier to handle the performance of my server if I knew I would be on the same server for a long period of time. I have a plot on the mainland and would personally prefer that scenario even there. This scenario alows me script to the location to some degree. I feel bad for someone like SnakeKiss who would have to stick it out a little on the mainland, but Epimetheus tends to suck more than Tehama regularly. HOWEVER if the performance there was consistent I would be able to take it into consideration when building and scripting (you would never see me put a SetTimerEvent here for example). However I imagine Tehama would be one of the first kids on the block to upgraded, and then she'll prolly blow my PI fps away lol

I do agree with Korg on the other points of this discussion, but I am still completely torn on whether or not there should be a mainland "lottery". Korg makes a very good point in his last post about minimizing the "fairness" by making it daily instead of on server crashes or world-wide downtime, but for people to become better at scripting there MUST be something consistant to use as a lag-CONTROL or LL has to assign someone the job of figuring out the REAL causes of lag (not likely).

* EDIT to clarify above 2 paragraphs: if we go on a rotating upgrade system but do NOT continue the lottery, then users could plan for the fact that their sim behaved a certain way. Then when the hardware is upgraded, the owners could upgrade their builds. Option 2 being Korg's idea.

Well there's about $1.87 from me. I hope it changed some opinions, I hope it confused some people, and I hope we move forward into a better age of SL as soon as possible Remember this folks, no one else has even succeeded this much. Say what you want about SL, but WOW and DAOC (among others) don't have 4000+ brand new models introduced everyday at completely irregular times. If they did, they would be unplayable. Keep up the good work LL, listening to your community is the key to a Greater Metaverse! =D

************************************************************************
P.S. Everyone just take a sec and think about the server performance in 2025 when pop ups have been figured out, RL/SL are integrated, and Joe Douchebag is writing the first real SL virus. Hey I'm happy =D lol

i hate to say it but yer post is pretty terrible higbee...

yer goin on and on about a loss of '400' fps.. out of nearly FOUR THOUSAND... in kumori.

At numbers that high individual 'sim fps' readings are essentially meaningless.

kumori is on a *good* sim, its one'f the latter HT p4's (sim 355) its actually *BETTER* than what you *should* have given the born on date on the land (which should have been a very early p4 prolly around sim150)

I mean you are basically the definitive example of why LL has taken so long to address this issue at all. It took a lot of convincing to tell them there are real server problems, and those of us that were *seriously* suffering (with sim fps's in the 2 digit number mark, in nearly empty sims) really had to go through alot to even get this issue recognized.

You on the other hand are already getting *MORE* than you are 'entitled' to and more than you WOULD be getting if you had bought a fixed sim, alot more, yet you put a pretty bitter post out there to the point it almost demeans the entire effort so many of us went through.

Sims should be given when they are given, and as things age, the oldest sims should start to graduate to newer hardware, and at the same time the island owners really should be kept within the class they paid for, in your case, a sim just a little bit slower than you have it now.

As to who *deserves* or where the higher priority for LL should go thats a topic for debate but i will throw this out. A private island owner *DOES* controll all the content in the sim. SO if that specific island isn't running up to snuff and starts hittin two digit sim fps they *CAN* fix it, they can make it livable for people again by just removing a little scripted doo dad here or a scanner there. people on the *MAINLAND* rarely have such luxury, Often times they will have a *neighbor* that is using alot of resources and *NOTHING* they can do can possibly make the sim less laggy. Thats why its impotant to get these old and often very full sims, out of the oldest hardware. Because no one user *CAN* make it better, only a sim upgrade can.

and for the record *NO ONE* should be on the very oldest hardware, it does measuably run SL more than 50% slower than even the mid range average sims.

As to yer issue... i can't even concieve of a way in which your arguing why yer sim is running 3800 fps instead of 4200 fps is *ANYTHING* but a distraction from the real problems of many sims getting older hardware and going from 1200 fps empty on a new sim, to 100 fps, with sketchy time dilation and very very poor net response. you are arguing simply out of a perception of entitlement and a rather poor sense of what is actually going on.

And im sorry i worded this post as strongly as i did but what you are arguing really hit a nerve there, This is somehin we have suffered for well over a year, putting in weeks and months of time testing things over and over and over and trying to get LL to see.

Lusk residents actively discovered the three hardware tiers, accurately described what could be causing the performance disparity's between them and did the sim testing necessary to get LL to really look into it, despite *MONTHS* of being told everything we were doing wasn't the case.

We heard innumerable 'its all the content in the sim the hardware is the same' and 'those sim stats you are saying don't really mean what you think they do' and 'we would know if there was a serious performance disparity' and other comments as feedback but we would not be deterred.

Now we have to sit here and listen to some island owners whine when they are already getting more than they paid for and it really jus hurts, cause THIS is why LL resisted what we were trying to show them for so long.. this is the reason we had to fight so hard. Once LL would admit the problem, like a crashed city bus, people come out of the woodwork to claim their 'fair' share in a hungry-hungry hippos style raw out feeding frenzy

I, for one, am REALLY pissed off that this has been diverted to a "private island owners issue". If it wasn't for us "lowly" mainland owners, LL likely wouldn't even be examining this issue at all.

Yeah, you paid $1000 for your PI. Great. Over the time we've managed Lusk and Perry, we've, in land taxes (remember those?), land purchase prices (usually extortionary), likely paid well, WELL over the initial costs for a private island.

Keep in mind, when we got into this, there WAS no other option. And now, "moving" is NOT a realistic option, as we've already output all of this money, and are left holding the bag.

You guys complaining about a drop from 4000 simFPS to 2100 simFPS really doesn't make me shed a tear, when we're talking about getting hardware that makes our land run at 150 simFPS *WHEN EMPTY*, and *20-30* simFPS with 10 agents in it.

But, oh well, we aren't PI owners, so we're going to have to just suck it up. You guys are talking about maintaining high performance. We are talking about MINIMAL USEABILITY. Yeah yeah yeah, the TOS says that its *OKAY* for LL to make us pay $200/mo for a sim we can't even LOG INTO or MOVE AROUND IN, where realistically, all told, we've paid more to LL and the community than most PI owners on the grid.

It's funny how the "private island" moniker and the 4-digit US$ setup fee really gets people feeling like they've outclassed those ghetto hood-rats on the mainland.

Keep in mind, even if we wanted to pay $1000 per, to refresh Lusk and Perry's hardware, WE COULD NOT.

While your builds may be disposeable enough to flatten and redo on a new island, after plopping down an EXTRA $1000 for the privilege, (yes yes we GET it, you're FILTHY F*CKING RICH in RL) - this is not something I think we should HAVE to do - just because we've been along for the ride longer than most people!

Overall, this is a really LOUSY attitude to take towards early supporters, early contributors and early adopters. When the beans are all in the bag at the end of the day, WE HAVE PAID NO LESS THAN YOU HAVE - Likely more.

Our recurring expenses are the SAME as yours on a PI.

You guys just have this air of ~prestige~. It's artificial, just like the rhinestone 'bling' on your virtual silver cups. Get over yourselves.

Michi,

As a PI owner, I find your post pretty insulting. It also seems to assume that the lindens are only listening to PI owners. And it also continues to divert attention to the major issue at hand.

fen-

Why, feniks? It's obvious that the PI owners are trying to wrestle the issue to be a "PI owner issue"; I find THAT insulting, and pretty low.

What did I say that was untrue? We brought this to LL's attention as a question of USEABILITY. And viability of certain builds.

What IS the "issue at hand", Feniks? The fact that PI owners who paid $1000 aren't currently guaranteed a whiz-bang simulator? Or the fact that you have person A paying $200 a month and getting 20 simFPS, and person B paying $200 a month and getting 4000 simFPS.

I find it absolutely disgusting that, after we worked to get the attention of LL, some PI owners walked in and said, effectively, "Actually, you guys have no valid claim and really should just have to suffer with low performance. But us PI owners paid this $1000 chunk and should be guaranteed the fastest of the fast - so, thanks for bringing it up, but it's really US (the PI owners) who should benefit, not you low little mainlanders."

If the "issue" now is that PI owners should be the only ones who should have performance issues taken into account, you're damn right I'm diverting it - back to what the original problem was.

Believe it or not, the mainland ACTUALLY DOES have some value to the entirety of the grid.

I'll say that, how upset I am about this, isn't aimed at PI owners categorically; but I am upset at those who've taken an air of entitlement that doesn't really exist -- at least no more than those who have taken a different route to securing their spot in SL.

haha sorry I just realized it read 400 fps lol that is supposed to say 4000 fps
(from 7k to 3k)

all I can say is there was no anger nor diversion attempted in my post above. Just another person who plays secondlife, who thought it would be a good idea to report his minor issue in a thread that was already discussing it. You're welcome to argue the point and maybe even sway me to your side, but it will not be accomplished by calling me names or accussing me of being a bad man for expressing my opinions. The only thing I will apologize for is my angry posts from 2 weeks ago which I linked to. I was indeed angry and showed it. However I thought my points were valid for this discussion, but I am removing the link. After reading my post I am sure that the line about "reality" steamed a few, but that's just how I talk in RL. I over emphasize everything as to bring my point to a head. It is merely a strategy for argument and conversation. I forget how easily people offend sometimes. Ah well, hindsight is 20/20.

Let's be clear however Eltee that I have never even once sent in a bug report/contacted a linden/or sent an email to LL about my sim fps issues, so I am taking no LL resources away from anyone. The only place I even discuss it is right here, and as you can see by my number of posts it isn't very often. I'm kind of confused about why it was bad post, maybe because it got all rambly lol. However your post is pretty much exactly what I was saying. The only thing you pointed out is the time my server was created probably would account for my current fps. I hadn't even thought about that, but it makes perfect sense (of course you also though I meant only 400 fps hehe). Well regardless I agree with you! lol I hope whatever I said to make you angry wore off heh

***************************
Now to the poster I will not mention the name of...

I currently eat ramen, hamburger helper, hot dogs, and frozen pizzas in order to allow myself to use SecondLife the way I choose to use it. I also work 15 out of 24 hours, 7 days a week. I don't need to explain how I use my money to anyone. Since I spent 5 years on welfare as a young teen with a single parent, I wouldn't dare flaunt it if I was rich and it's disgusting that someone would even accuse me of such a thing. I spend 50% of my time in secondlife working on the SecondLife Parks and Rec Registry, which is a listing of OTHER PEOPLE'S WORKS and is FREE TO USE on both sides of the coin. So I'm not sure who you are accusing of disrespecting the SL "elders" or other people's works, but if it's me, you are sorely mistaken.

higbee i just honestly don't even think you know what simfps actually means, what its representing. If you did you would understand even FOUR THOUSAND fps, at the high values you *still* have is meaningless... its an inverse statistic 1/n where n is the time it takes the server to run a single pass through the sim.

What this means is that the difference between 7000 sim fps, and 3000 sim fps, is NOT 'four thousand' as it were... its very far from that.. its *ACTUALLY* the difference in processor time between 1/7000th of a second, and 1/3000th of a second. What that translates to is taking 0.000142 seconds per server frame, and 0.000333 seconds per server frame. its barely a factor of TWO difference, much less a factor of 'four thousand'

a *SINGLE* scripted object, if complicated enough, can easly take 0.0002 seconds of processor time, and could account for the 'disparity' you are seeing.

to put this in more perspective.. a difference between 7000 sim fps.. and 3000 sim fps.. which we have quantified as 0.0002s or 200 microseconds, would take a sim that is already *AT* 100 fps, aka 0.01 seconds, to 0.0102 seconds.. or roughly 98 sim fps.

so the*4000* 'fps' difference that you are complaining about on your island, is about the same as another sim loosing *TWO* fps... its all a matter of perspective and 1/n values, like sim fps are TERRIBLE at derriving perspective.



ontop of that higbee your complaints are particularly off-mark because you are already on servers *MUCH* faster than you should feel 'entitled' to by when your actual islands were purchased. There is no 'gripe' there other than the fact you heard higher numbers were better and you want your 'fair share' which is noble, but abit self-centered when for alot of mainland sims the difference in server performance is MUCH MUCH more critical, where sims aren't running one update every 0.0003 seconds but rather one every 0.03 seconds when there are alot of people here... thats *ONE HUNDRED* times slower than your island is running *now* and you still see fit to complain?

its not that everyone shouldn have a right to voice their opinions and feelings, its just i think your feelings, and those of very many island owners, are based on *MISGUIDED* information, both on what you are entitled to, and on what this performance actually *MEANS* in the first place.

We have these mainland sims that are running on hardware effectively 4-6 times slower than what your islands are running on... and that have MANY more builds, and active things running. Ontop of that, there are often no good ways for people *IN* them to actually improve their performance via optimizing content, (which all island owners can do since they own the whole sims to begin with) because being so old they are split among many many people, including long dead lifetime accounts and plots still running scripts from 6 or 9 months ago causing lag thats in the end on a scale literally ten to 100 times worse than what you are complaining about.


Its a matter of priority.... eventually all the sims will be better sims... but right now.. the mainland sims.. especially the ones that have been suffering for months and even years at this point. They are often skating on the very edge of unusability, with lag orders of magnitude worse than what you have complained about... they need to be the ones that are pushed out first...

we're not denying that everyone should get a slice of cake.. its just that it doesn't make good sense to let the people who have had the most direct ability to gain some speed through content control, temporarily, if need be.. push their way to the front of the line, just because the specific way they acquired their land, *which is cheaper than mainland whole sims by alot btw* tricked them into thinking they were entitled to it :/.

Why does it matter if I pay for my land at auction or as fix price? If I buy sim at auction today or order island sim then in both cases I expect one server, up to date hardware and dedicate to me. I agree that play round Robin is wrong and like one cheat. Nobody should suddenly end up with old hardware after buying new sim. However, I see absolute no reason why island sim owner should get any advantage over mainland sim owner.

And, yes, I own sims both on mainland and private island sims. So I see both sides. Any talk like "I bought island sim - I deserve special treatment" is rubbish. Sorry. It should be: I bought land in sim released on xx.xx.2004 and should at least have hardware that was new at xx.xx.2004. Wether only one big fat cat who can afford 65000sqm live in one sim or many small mouse who can each only afford 512sqm should not make difference when it come to quality of hardware running the sim.

i agree with you Anshe... chopping and changing the sims running servers in sime with slower ones is unfair and against our consumer rights!

LL released the hole white paper thing abuot sl players getting Copyrights or something on their land or wotever in the game... if thats the case, why give any land owner a worse server for the sims than what was available at the time of purchase?

For once, I agree with Anshe, as amazing as that may be.

When someone orders a private island sim, they are asking LL to add a machine to the grid. Since this is not done on a schedule determined by LL, like mainland sim additions are, the expenditure is on the requestor of the PI.

On the mainland, the difference is that the sim in question has already been decided by LL to be added to the grid, and the auction prices for land are therefore a recoupment of the expenditure already put out by LL.

So a quick review:

-Requesting a PI: "Setup fee" for the cost of adding another piece of hardware to the grid.
-Mainland land: Auction fees as "recoupment" for a piece of hardware already added to the grid.

The difference is not one of entitlement, but of scheduling: Has LL already paid for the hardware and is looking to make the money back through bidders who wish to use the allocated resources? Or has LL not paid the hardware and therefore not allocating resources requested, and the requestor therefore is paying in advance for the hardware and resource useage.

PI owners pay and a sim is added to the grid.
Mainland owners wait for a sim to be added to the grid, and then pay for it. (In part, in whole, or as we have, in 'installments' - getting a piece of the sim at a time, which, in the long run, has exceeded the cost of a PI.)

The auction fees go to LL. The setup fee goes to LL. Sometimes the auctions are lower than the PI setup fee. Sometimes the auction fees are higher than the PI setup fee. What changes is order of operations, and not entitlement.

What we DON'T get on the mainland are some of the controls that 'estate owners' do get. I absolutely believe that the terminology used: "Private Islands", "Estates" - has made the owners of these sims quite a bit more big-headed than those of us who just own "land".

But when it comes down to it, it's still a 1u box in a server room that gets paid for, by the users, one way or another.

It's not like mainland sims do not have a 'setup fee', Chip and Higbee. It's simply that the setup fee is not a fixed amount.

Hi guys, I’m new here so I apologise if I say something that may sound wrong… still learning how things work here.

I think the problem is a bad arrangement between hardware capabilities, user limits as in number of prims, scripting and particle effects allowed and finally payment system.
A bit of a badly designed or controlled system all together.

When I joined, I didn’t really see any explicit message on SL pages that I was going to be fixed on a certain hardware etc… All I care about is the “performance in itself” and not the hardware behind it. The hardware to support performance should be purely of LL concern, (this is part of their investment not mine), with the aim to guarantee me (me as in any old or new user signing up) a satisfying gaming experience by today standards, worth my money and of course making them a profit as things move along. (On a side note IF I BUY HARDWARE I WANT SHARES OF THE COMPANY…anyway… this is a different matter). Of course tomorrow will be based on tomorrow standards so hardware upgrades are implied. But we as users should not be involved in that.


The selling page titled “Think Big. Build Bigger” says:
“Land in Second Life is your blank canvas and you can do anything you want with it. Build a dream home, or a thunderdome. Create a dance club or a giant bathtub. Develop a small shop or a gigantic shopping center. Or plant some trees and construct a secluded retreat in the pristine virtual wilderness.”

!!!Of course “with limitations” I would like to do that… build a simple home on my land or a massive shopping center!!! They say I can do that.. it is up to them to deliver their promises with a good business model for them.


The Developers and Tech Heads selling page says:
“Second Life is a developer and designer's dream”
“ A powerful but fun-to-learn and use scripting language further enhances your creations by allowing you to add behaviors to the objects you build - sculpt a butterfly, then write a short chunk of code that lets it follow you around as you walk.”
Endlessly Expandable Landscape
scalable server grid running Linux – capable of supporting “thousands of simultaneous” Second Life residents. Uploadable Textures and Audio - Rigid Body Physics Simulation - All objects in the world are collideable and can be dynamic and moving. Make a table, and you can stand on it. Kick it, and it’ll fall over.
Dynamic Lighting and Shadowing - Build a house, and it casts a shadow. Add your own light sources – make a lamp that shines, or elaborate stage lighting.


!!!I would expect, as a developer and designer, to be able to do all of that! Just as they sell it on their website… yes of course with limitations… but they have to deliver on their promises….they ask money for it… I pay… I WANT!!!!


WITH LIMITATIONS is my point!
PERFORMANCE is my point!
As far as I know the only limit I can see is that when you for example buy your First Land plot of 512 m2 you have a limit of 117 prims to play with.. but what about limitations with how many particle systems I can create in my 512 or 22,000 m2 of land. What about how many objects I can have with Physics applied and so on…
LL has to review their limitation system. Every single player based game engine has limitation on size of textures against performances, number of textures against performances, number of lights against performances, number of polys against performaces etc…
LL we need limitations.

Limits will make it fairer for every one, as in you set up your hardware to support so much stuff happening per each m2. If you own so many square meters you can only have
Xx amount of prims
Xx amount of lights
Xx amounts of scripts active
Xx amounts of textures size/number/ or whatever makes sense for your technology
Xx amount of physics enabled objects

And make sure that your reference hardware can handle your investigated limits at a satisfying fps for the user.
In this way there will be no surprises…
In this way if I buy a land here or there I know that even if my neighbours use all their allocated resources, those limits will be well handled by your hardware by design.

This way no one will have anything to say about their sim or island or 512 m2 plot being placed on this or that server… it want matter anymore… all it matters is a steady and playable/workable frame rate (or other parameter you prefer) that everyone will enjoy.

Then later on you want to keep up with competition, with technology moving forward or stay ahead of competition… upgrade your hardware! Increase limits!

As a developer and designer I think it is hugely amateurish to set no limits especially when your technology is going to be used by mostly not professional developers, creative users yes but ones that are not used to deal with real world game development limitations.
Limitations pushes you to get more out of less… and have often better looking and performing worlds then the ones developed by careless users willing to add as many particle effects and rotating billboards as they can just because they can.

Philp Linden, get away from making people think about this or that server box… simply make sure that the game runs at a good frame rate, promise playable worlds, not this or that 1U box with this or that Pentium processor… you don’t work for Intel you don’t’ sell hardware… you sell online gaming experience… this is what you need to deliver…
Have a certain balance between hardware and user customised content… you will see you will still be able to have a lot to offer to the ones that want to build for fun or to sell their creations off.

Limitless areas would be the ones where for example a whole sim or highland is owned by just one person… then the owner could set his/her own rules.. and for example decide to use no scripts but have 3,000,000 particles flying around every where if that pleases him/her eh ehe

Well, my 2 cents.. Hopefully good ones

P.S. of course limits and fps or lag etc... are just examples... whatever really makes sense to you and to SL technology to create a balance between hardware, promises and quality of services...

I also heared on other threads that LL is moving towards other stuff like a project for younger peopel and stuff like that... I would suggest to fix this one first... make it as solid as possible otherwise an 6 months time you are going to have two projects crash at the same time... two sets of users complining at the same time... and so far LL has been a stpe behind troubles, not ahead... Here you have paying members... on your sign up site you sell a service not an experiment... don't lose credibility... get your acts together and you will prosper

Did I get the last word then?

i would say as developper and massive script user, it would not be fair, every person has different priorities, someone that will create complex firework system will eat more particle client ressources than someone that focuse on complex script and data handling, this one itself will eat more script ressources than a crazy builder/sculpter.

Linden lab did the best choice by using the prims as standard unit in second life, it is simple and effective.

What is really needed is to educate peoples about the wise use of textures, the way to optimise scripts or particle generators for example


on my scripting point of view, an object(group of prims) that use more than one listener to listen the general chat is not acceptable for a finalised script

and there is many other examples.

You've applied inclusive management style to customers as well as employees.

I've dealt with tech support for other MMORPGs. In one case, there was no live tech support at all. Everything was handled by email in a minimum of two days.

In another game, one had to wait up to four hours for a volunteer. If one were very, very lucky the volunteer would summon an employee. After another half an hour to an hour, the employee would show up. About one in five times they'd fix my issues. I loved the game, but their lousy, top-down tech support drove me away.

SL is nothing like those games. Lindens are accessible. It's appreciated.

I am curious, I didn't read every post so I may be asking a dumb question but are relatively new sims supposed to be running on sims in the double digits? I just checked Dusun and it is on sim 11? It has always been a slideshow sim but heck I remember when it came online and it wasn't all that long ago. It would seem so as the sim CPU is 1.00, sim fps is 266 and I am at 12 fps on my machine which sucks ass.