The Infinite Island Project

My two cents.

I agree with Random in part. I found the original posting arrogant, naive, triumphal, and generally insulting to the experience of others. Put me off totally. Seemed like some newb keen to teach grandmother to suck eggs. Not saying this is true, or fair. Just how it struck this one reader.

And I have NO experirnce in this field. Heaven knows how much more irritating to those who do, like Random.

On the other hand, I find Random's concern for the visual environment bizarre.

In view of his long-term contamination of the visual environment on the Ross-Refugio border with numerous large permanent non-architectural floating advertising cubes suspended over land and water all round his mall property. (That is your property, isnt it, Random ?).

Total disregard for the visual environment there, in my opinion.

So, as usual, the truth is that we are most of us (me included) half right, half wrong - half considerate, half not - half honest, half self deceiving - half arrogant, half respectful.

Aint life fun ? First and second.

I'm no longer looking for oppinions on my original post, but thank you for adding that. I will admit that several people found it somewhat pompus and I take public oppinion very seriously. It is no trouble for me to understand this and be humble in my apology. I am not a word smith and not used to being responsible for announcements and PR duties In fact, a majority of my english schooling concentrated on technical writing. That is to say, precise and forward communication. I assure you my goals are humble in their need for public harmony

I am simply a person trying to gain public awareness that the words posted on land and community in these forums over the past months can have a greater accomplishment than simply being fodder for the Lindens to wade through looking for scraps to bring up at the next company meeting. I'm working towards a better way to do things. In order for me to say and mean this, I have to concede that things aren't perfect as they are. Now, i know some arrogence is required in that view. We will all have to deal with each other's arrogence in stride if this project gets off the ground.

But i would like to downplay these social things as much as possible. It's not my intentions to dwell on my 3 original paragraphs of announcement when i have written so much more detailing the beginnings of this plan of mine. The only reason I have not started a second post in order to bury this topic on my original announcement is because I haven't felt that i require one and shouldn't clutter the already branching nature of the forum.

~Lefty

Hi, there, Barmovic, I'm *so* glad you had that same response I did to Lefty's tone. It's just helpful to feel I'm not alone in my perceptions! I also take Lefty's sincere and humble apology for that tone. There is all too little of that kind of sincere and humble apology on these forums, and I, for one, accept Lefty's sincerity and humility, and see now that after his life of technical writing, he had a shot at writing a ad/proposal kind of copy, and he went wild with it to have some fun. So I'm glad he realizes it, that's helpful. He should now go back and answer some of the questions people had like -- how come you get the one veto vote in this "community"? Where's the money going to come from? How much will it cost for me, etc.?

And Barmovic, I'm always glad when I can find a kindred soul who must be at least 500 miles from New York City or some other major urban center where there are at least some people who have heard of a Yiddish expression like "you can't teach your grandmother to suck eggs" LOL. Mazeltov!

Now...as to the visual pollution. Huh? I'd invite anyone to fly out to Ross/Refugio and have a look and see if you come away with the same impression.

I think for one, Barmovic, you've been helped to have a less-than-happy experience visualatating my rentomatic cubes (that's all they are) because you want my land LOL. You've PM'd and IM'd me a few times trying to get my little 512 in Refugio, my last 512 in Refugio for a time, and one that I'd never part with for sentimental reasons having to do with a related purchase of my first land early in the game. So, sorry, it's still not for sale, but you can rent it by pressing the rental cube, which will then rez to a tiny blue thingie that will pollute your horizons less. Maybe that $250/week there would be a good investment in securing the visual horizon you didn't buy?

As for the mall, well, sure, there were large boxes for awhile -- the 4x4 rental cubes with an ad combined. That's how everybody does it in a mall. For a time, maybe 30 days at the most, I was running a campaign to get those spaces rented, because they were right across from Tringo. And then most of them got rented, so there were no more cubes. It's been weeks since you could really see any cubes -- perhaps there's one? And I recently reduced its size in fact because now it's mostly rented and there is no need to shout "rent me".

The cubes on the other side of the island are just cubes, people come and go, they click them, they rent them, the cubes go away for awhile...then they leave...the cubes pop up again. I'm sorry if it isn't the best aesthetic experience for you, but maybe you could suggest some better means of advertising?

You see, it is extremely hard to compete with the oligarchic megamalls in the game. They have spam lists and pre-paid orders and fill up their malls with pre-arranged vendors who just cut and paste all their stuff, and then they all move on or go outline and just wait for the cash to roll in. But I'm running more of a mom n' pop operation -- in fact you might say it's pop without the mom -- and manually handle everything, and make sales and customer service in person. So I have to resort more to signs perhaps given that I don't have those kind of huge spam lists.

There's more business that's going to be coming into the sim now with Jimmy's new casino, my other new mature mall, the movie theater that is to come, etc.

If you are looking for a pleasant residential experience in Ross/Refugio, you're in the wrong place. And you've been in the wrong place probably for the last six months, since these sims have been dominated by other people's malls and businesses (not mine) all this time.

Anyway, I love discussions and debates about hypocrisy. I think they help shed light on the difficulties and truths of the game. I think it's easy to slam someone else, but you should walk a mile in their shoes -- or should I say fly a meter with their attachments? -- and you might sympathize with them and see that most things people do have a good reason.

I think you're confusing me with someone else in this quote, Random.

Most of your floating advert boxes are close to ground/sea level, not in vending spots to rent inside your building. I checked yesterday and most were still there then.

Don't think I'm challenging your right to have them - of course not, its your land. Just puzzled by your expressions of concern for the visual environment. I guess you must be mentally zoning SL into "residential or landscape" where it matters and "commercial" where it doesn't, and anything goes.

Fair enough, I spose. Just remember, in most places, a mall can materialise on your nice residential doorstep any time. I for one think its nicer if it looks like a building. You know, connected to the ground. Or else high enough not to be seen (I think thats ok too, and could/should be done more often).

I'm just a hopeless purist I guess.

Oh, and, Lefty, you don't have to apologise, pal. Post as you please. Just expect a bit of flak occasionally, its part of the fun.

OK, that well could be. Someone has been IM'ing and PM'ing me and I thought it was the same name. I will check my records. If you are not that same person, my apologies!



Barm, you don't seem to get it here. The reason they are outside the building, floating, is that they are for renting LAND, not stalls inside the mall. They are for renting parcels of land to make a store on. I know this is a novel concept, it is not often done in the game -- to use the mall rentomatics to rent land -- but that's how I run my business.

I checked again, too. Most of the parcels on there are rented on the side you must be looking at. The stores now in their place are brightly-hued and perhaps not to your liking, but hey, that's life. I saw one big rezzed 10 x 10 cube serving as an ad. I reduced it down to like 2 -- happy now? But it won't really change your visual experience.

These cubes are there for a reason -- to advertise. Now why do people wind up using cubes to advertise in this game? Well, maybe because they aren't CAD/sculpture/artists to create, oh, say, a sculpture of the bust of Amytis to serve as a kind of "ad" or "rentomatic". I've experimented with that idea, having birds be ads, etc. but it's hard work. Cubes are chosen because they work.

Now why would I have to continue advertising so "aggressively"? Well, one thing is because I have one very determined person determined to destroy my business, for personal baggage reasons, who has the insane idea I am "scamming" newbies with my tier donation plan. Of course, I am not "scamming" newbies because we are attracting newbies to our services to *stay* and not be *scammed* duh.

The program we offer isn't an easy one to understand. It involves selling your first land to us or putting it on the open market (we offer advice as to where the best plots are); then donating that tier to our group; then gaining access to that high-traffic waterfront parcel of land. It's a good deal, that many don't understand but believe me, once they *do* get it (tier and land, etc. is so confusing at first) they realize what a fantastic offer it is. The turnover there can be high, because the program is intended to give newbs a chance to build a house or store, try their wares for awhile, save up, then buy a bigger parcel for another home/store. Read the card, and maybe you'll get it.

As I noted before, advertising in this game is HELLA HARD. Try selling thing in competition with the oligarchs, and you'll get it. So you make a cube because *that works*.

I'm sorry that has impacted on your visual experience. But this isn't one of our residential neighbourhoods where we're trying to keep a nice view and a non-commercial atmosphere. It's a mall sim. There are at least 3 other mall or casino owners with huge establishments on Ross and Refugio who were there long before I got there. So please, once again, if you are trying to have a residential experience, you are on the wrong sim.




Like I said, the standards for a residential sim would be greater, but the standards for a commercial sim should be as high as you can get them. I guess I don't personally feel that a white rental box, with a painting from an ancient classical work, the Pharos Lighthouse of Alexandria, is anything ugly to look at. Maybe you don't like it, but I tried to be a bit different with my signs and rentomatics by putting a classical-type painting on them instead of the usual screaming yellow type RENT ME.

No, I'm running a business, at the end of the sim, on an island, far from other malls even on this sim, with one side of my island looking out to the open Linden sea, where 5 of those boxes are. So if you couldn't possibly be looking at those boxes from that side. That side gets a big of fly-by from Samoa, so I leave those boxes there and people click on them and rent them. Then there are less boxes to look at : ) (just tiny cubes).

So I'm gathering you are looking at my land from the side where Anshe's mall is? From Refugio? But the Tringo game in Anshe's mall, and even the small stores now renting the places with the "floating cubes" have *got* to be a worse visual experience for you than my cubes.

In fact, the visual experiences in Refugio, where you must be looking at my island in Ross, in the last six months have included a raucous night club with a spinning sign, a cyanide-blue mall on land terraformed way the hell up into the horizon, a guy using his lot to build giant casinos, some kind of amusement park with moving stuff -- honestly, given the fare on Ross and Refugio, I find it astounding that my little boxes have gotten to you, but I would have to sit on your parcel and try to understand what's really bothering you.
Is it because you were an early first-lander in a sim that is all commercial now? But it was almost all commercial when I arrived there. In fact, we had a club there for several months that other neighbours complained lagged the sim thought it did not, really, and was a good visual experience by all accounts.

So, what's really up with this? Is this just the usual forum "gotcha" game? An effort to pounce on someone and trap them and charge them with hypocrisy so you can feel superior? That's a fun game.

But as you're playing it, I would invite you to:

o Fly around the rest of these 3-4 commercial sims and tell me that others cubes and boxes and stores are better than my cubes and boxes and stores -- they are no better, and in fact often worse!
o Fly around the rest of the 20 sims where we have commercial and residential properties, and see if the view bothers you. Go to Alston, Ravenlgass, Moraine, Winnipeg, etc. and report back to me on your view experience. I think you'll find it a 50 percent better view experience than the rest of SL.
o If you don't like my properties or the visual experience you get from them, well, find a new sim? Move? Adjust your draw distance? I don't know what to tell you.




Excuse me, hon, but this mall didn't just "materialize on your doorstep" and this large tower is definitely sited on the ground. It's been there since December, and it came AFTER the other big malls in the sims you are looking at!!! I don't know if you are one of the last holdouts of little 512 properties or smaller properties in Refugio, but I first bought there back in December, and when I got there in December, Ross and Refugio were covered with malls already. The Ross island had a Christmas Factory on it which many found hard to look at (some even put up invisible scrim so as to hide that view). I then eventualy purchased that island and commissioned the Pharos Light House of Alexandria replica to be built, which is an awesome structure created by SuLuMor Romulus that is very beautiful to look at. This building *is* connected to the ground. Some large cubes that advertised items might not have been connected, but that's becuse they have to be visible to fly-bys.

So I'm still not "getting" what your beef is. Here is a lovely architectural wonder of the world. Around the side are some land parcels with rentomatics and stores. It isn't the best visual combination, but that's life, I am not running an art philanthropy but trying to cover tier and other costs. If you mean the 2 small stores that are on this waterside aren't "touching the ground" and "floating in the air" well, it's because they have a right to build up to two storeys on the land they rent, and they don't have to attach themselves to the ground if they don't go up above the first floor view line. One is done by a struggling newbie still working on his store. The other is by a well-established wealthy player who uses that kind of store because *it works*. And they were merely trying to be visible to the masses of people coming to Tringo right opposite it (you mean to tell me Tringo with its lag and griefing by-products didn't bother you MORE than my boxes???).

The Tringo appears to be gone ATM, but it may come back, don't know the deal there.

One thing you might do in the future, is if you have these aggravating view experiences in the view you didn't buy or rent, you might try IM'ing me politely in the game and expressing your concerns. Often things can be adjusted. Blasting in the forums isn't usually the first step, and I always approach neighbours in the game first by IM before I raise their architectural wonders (except for that white tower which was a clear-cut malicious campaign).

SO you've been sitting for months looking at my boxes or stores and not saying a thing? Geez, that's unfortunate. I still don't really know what you are talking. The floating stores by my tenants, which have been there perhaps a month or two? My rental cubes? Whatever it is, I can try to adjust the cubes, and possibly one of the stores but the other is a long-term tenant who has no other kind of store -- he uses that store *because it works for sales*.

Honestly, I can't emphasize it enough *people build these kinds of stores and signs because they work for sales*. Moss-covered mausoleums work less well for sales, I imagine. Do you have a better idea for sales *based on your own hard-won experience in this game and not just flapping your trap?* Then let's hear it.

OK, for those that hate long posts, just look at the pictures

1) A picture of the side of the mall visible to other property owners on Ross/Refugio, with the large "free floating non-architectural white-type cube".

While I first reduced it yesterday after all this turmoil, I later put it back exactly as it has been for all these weeks (10x10), noticing that it was on phantom and 50 percent invisible, with a picture that wasn't really so horrible and actually better than most ads and cubes, and was really no worse/better than the other boxes. So, judge for yourself.

2) A picture of the other side of the island, looking out to Linden sea. There were 5 (not a large amount) of those same cubes, only 4x4, but what I've done now is made them tiny (1 x 1), put them even more invisible, and changed the texture so there is no ad or type face or RENT ME on them.

Let's see how they rent now? I'm always willing to experiment. I've found in other communities that any kind of rent-me cube can work both ways -- sometimes people click to rent on it MORE, and other times, precisely because there is a sea of rent-mes, they do NOT rent because they don't want to live next to ANOTHER rent-me cube. I've experimented with all kinds of things. And I am usually back at square one, where I was in my first week of the game, where I used to grumble at one land baron's particularly hard-to-look-at yellow spinning cubes...except that now I understand what he figured out long ago is that his cubes WORK TO SELL STUFF. Sorry, but there it is.

All you effete feted ones, please, find a way to SELL STUFF that looks like it has ARCHITECTURAL MERIT *cough* that you have MARKET-TESTED in REAL VIRTUALITY and I will listen to you.

PS I tried to make a rentomatic with an ordinary rock out of the library, but the rentomatic people don't let you put their script into other prims, maybe because they've got it jiggered so it rezzes into another cube or something, anyway, I repeat my requests to scripters out there, make a rentomatic that looks like a stone or flower or something, make it no-commission, with copyable function (but no transfer), provide the services for it, and sell it for a reasonable price.

Let's see how sales are with my new low-impact cubes? I already had one customer looking in vain for the rentomatics LOL. So it took my time and her time to find them. Oh well! We must not impact Barm's view...

BTW, Barm, I noticed you actually don't seem to be a property-owner in Ross or Refugio, at least under this name. Or I'm missing something? Could you identify exactly what your own stake is in the view corridors on Ross and Refugio? Or...you're just a fly-by?

Well...can I offer you a great rental opportunity for only $250/week/117 prims/512, with really, really low-impact nearly invisible rental cubes nearby? Just come and click on the box! Your transaction history is your receipt! Set all your prims to Pharos Rentals group to avoid sweeps. And no dogs on the beach! Thank you for your business

You have no need to apologise. Your proposal sounds enthusiastic, not arrogant. More importantly you appear to have good qualifications for the task at hand. Kindly add Mythic Construction to your list of interested parties.

I appreciate Lefty's willingness to take a step back -- since he hasn't spent any of his own money yet, hasn't indicated any money he's willing to spend, and so far seems to be calling for volunteer laborers in a wiki, or vague future investment partners who might see the value of his idea. Since others have spent money in the form of investment and have spent labor, it's a good idea to listen to their experience. I and others have been impressed with Lefty's willingness to apologize for what was seen by some of as arrogant.

To step up then and say it was not arrogant is to go back and feed the arrogance -- and that's a step backards in this discussion.

Is Mythic Construction not going to be working for financial gain since such disdain has been shown for those who do work for "financial gain"?

And could we be clear on what "financial gain is" -- charging in order to cover expenses and break even? Making a tiny profit? Making a big profit? How will this be judged?