Pinpoint Teleporting

Keep telehubs as they are.
That awful flying about is the only thing that gives me a sense of SL as an extended 3-d landmass.

If you want to get everywhere with a click, before we know it its just a browser with local 3-d pictures. Might as well disconnect everywhere and have no geography at all. Like Habbo Hotel (ummm.. I think....)

What Lindar said.

Sure point-to-point teleport is more practical. But SL isn't a simple application, like Word, that we use to Get Stuff Done as quickly as possible.

SL is a place, a play, a shared illusion. The sense of travel is part of crafting the illusion that these bits and bytes and laggy cartoons are a real space.

Travel is awkward. That's what makes it so rewarding to reach a distant destination.

Remove my need to travel, and you also remove my immersion.

-nim

We had this before with a L$ charge for each teleport.
Bring it back.

I am totally with Neko on this idea. Allow landmarks to teleport directly and allow landowners to turn this off, if so desired. Alternatively, it would be equally glorious if we had 5 places that we could set as direct TP locations.

While I loathe, hate and despise getting trapped in massive rezzing buildings near telehubs, I have discovered some really great places in SL that I happened to fly over enroute to someplace else. I think we all would lose if direct TP were available across the board. SL is a big world these days, the less of it we come into contact with, the shallower our second lives become.

I'm not fond of the telehub concept either, if for no other reason than it appears to be artificially enforced "for our own good". Historically, these kinds of things almost always turn out badly.

Let me toss this out: snag a concept from SimCity and let sims vote on whether they wish to be Commercial or Residential sims, and set p2p teleport capability within that sim accordingly?

(Funny this comes up -- just last night I was wondering about the feasibility of running a "taxi service" in SL -- set up an automated pool service where you could request transport to location X and the system would contact a 'runner' who would go there and offer a TP. Hell, it might be more interesting than dancing in a club for hours at a stretch)

Jess

I think the taxi service is a good idea. You could probably hire plenty of newbies to serve as runners, and it would help them get around to lots of new places and meet new people, too. I'd be sure to tip anyone who did this for me, as well. I don't know how customers would hear about you, though. We need a services listing in-world.

neko

I think the feature voting system does not work for this kinda proposal because it only counts positive votes but not negative votes.

I am very much against this proposal, as are many other residents. If you just found your secluded spot in one remote sim, after this proposal passes, "FreAkZ MegaZ Club & Mall" can finally open in your neighbourhood and all customers can conveniently teleport right next to your backyard and join the "L3wt D00ds Magic Penis Attachment 3.0" product launch Tringo party

The voting system also doesn't allow for acceptable alternatives to be presented either. But this forum does. I can appreciate the arguments presented against the ptp tp proposal. The annoyance I encounter daily with the current system overides my empathy.
I'd be okay with a compromise with a list of favorite places as an alternative. I'm interested in hearing ideas and suggested alternatives from the opponents.
Anshe, you posted in the Products Wanted forum for an automated transportation system. Could you elaborate a bit on your ideas for improving movement in SL?

I understand that telehub land can sell for much more than non-telehub land because it is more accessible. People build shops there because there is a shorter travel time. Allowing a direct TP and thus a short travel time to any location would only be a negative for landowners, not merchants. Merchants and clubs would love being able to allow customers to TP directly to their shops.

People have expressed concern that opening up TPs would bring clubs and malls to all parts of the grid. I think that is likely, but it will also spread out the load so that there are no longer lag ghettos near the THs.

If the only reason not to allow direct TPs is to protect the financial interests of a small number of landowners to the detriment of all other SL users, then I think someone needs to come up with a better reason.

Hi,
Just wanted to reinforce my earler yes with YES! YES! YES!
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

What is so hard about this concept?

p2p teleporting should have been there from the start.

What it does is gives us.. is a CHOICE!

Guess what?
You can still fly. Fly as much as you want, whenever you want. You can still go from sim to sim to sim to sim .. like that.

Guess what?
You can still teleport to a telehub by selecting it and then fly to your destination like you do now.


Land owners have no fly zones in place as it is. No teleport zones make sense for those who want it.

In reality i would use the p2p 90% of the time. SL Finally got a better Inventory Management System than THERE (I love the .6's search aspect) But THERE has it all over SL with the Undo Previous Teleport functionality and P2P.

There's all this talk about Telehub economies. The fact that you can teleport and fly now means that argument can't even hold water. Cheese cloth could or a tampon could hold more water.

Just take me for instance. I'm looking for a new dress. I ask my friends where's a good place to by a dress, or shoes, or any outfit. Oooooh... someone says this place here is good. Send me a landmark. When I am on my way there the ONLY thing on my mind is that destination. I don't even take the time to let the telehub buildings rez before I off and away. I'm just wishing that I didn't have to 'fly' there looking at a stupid red pole that does not even tell me how far away anything is anymore.

In real life, when you get to a location, depending upon what kind of transportation you have, how accessable it is etc. you might have to do your shopping where you are. People who take trains and busses usually shop near to the station or terminal.

Truthfully I don't shop at a telehub store just because it is near a telehub. If the store has something cool then I'll go in and take a look and if it's really got some nice stuff then I'll buy.

The notion that the entire SL economy revolves around Telehubs is a dumb as it can get. At any given point in time.. open your map... take a good look at the whole map. take carful notice where the biggest concentration of people are. They are scattered ALL over SL. Now just take note of how many of those groups actually coninside with a telehub location? Maybe 10 percent? And 10% is being generous.

I'm not fond of people who want to force their values of what is fun on to me. Telehubs is about on the lowest rung of the ladder for me. But that's just me.
I like choices
Many regards,
wizzie

I find flying from a TeleHub to my inteneded target the greatest waste of time in SL.
In annoyance it is second only to lag and security scripts

At Telehub i usually seek some altitude and fly to my intended targetwhere i encounter obstacles like.

1. objects(houses!) floating in mid air
   
2. a parcel near my my inteneded target has some security script that bounces me miles away.

All very annoying.

P2P teleport is no privacy issue because it does not give more access but only faster access. Infact i argue that P2P is more private since because:

1. the traveller does not pass other parcels imposing on others.
   
2. the traveller does not get seen by others.

The only valid reason i agree with is that urbanites do not want shoppingmalls and clubs nearby. Then specify commercial and residential sims. That way the urbanites will never get a busy club or bingo room on the parcel next to them.


I am opposed to forcing people to fly from TeleHub to intended target for the reaon of having them fly past other parts of SL. If people want to see other stuff they can fly.

Regards!

Not to single you out, but your post is the first occurence of it that I noticed...

While that is true that clubs would not have to worry about being near a telehub, the situation you describe above currently happens today anyway.

While being next to a telehub is a nice incentive for a club. I have seen many clubs that are not near telehubs and cause just as much lag to a sim as one that is.

This may actualy cause clubs to have more incentive to showing up at the club if you can go to any club spontainously when you want. Why go to Club Y between Club Z? "Well Club Y is closer to the telehub.", but with direct teleporting this point would be moot.

I'm thinking, and I could be completely wrong, but I'm thinking, that with P2P teleportation you'd go to more places because of whats there, rather than where it is. However inevitably there would still be some traffic coming from telehubs from those who like to use them. But the evening out of location toward the content thats actualy there would be interisting to see.

So a club/mall/etc. thats not near a telehub, could do better, or as good, as one that is near a telehub if it has content and gives people more of a reason to go there.

I'm thinking also perhaps this would improve the "greater content" and actualy work with the Traffic/Dwell system, because you'd have less people idling around land around telehubs (which gives owners to that more Dwell) and more people going directly too places with good content. Again I could be completely wrong on that and probably am.

I have no votes for this prop, however I'd like to see something similar to this, but LL could auction off telehubs to slow down the possible disruption of the telehub economy.

What the hell is this for a prop?

No way.. LL put telehubs on purpose!

And it would also destroy the vehicle economy by rendering vehicles useless when you can just teleport to your destination directly.

The user should be given TWO option buttons on every Landmark Popup, one (the default) GO TO HUB which is automatically toggled ON when the Landmark is first created, and the other GO TO LOCATION, which the user can manually set on the Landmark in his-her Inventory => Landmark folder. Users can then decide for themselves which function they want that Landmark to perform.

By setting the toggle to GO TO HUB by default, it still protects, and gives priority to, movement thru hubs, that businesses and other venues may rely on for traffic.

But if the user wants to manually change that setting, they should certainly be permitted to do so. As a matter of fact, the GO TO LOCATION option would actually enhance customer traffic, by permitting users of the Landmark to immediately, and flawlessly, return to a specific store, to a specific display item, whenever they choose.

Passing this specific GO TO LOCATION Landmark to another user also facilitates the "Where did u get that wonderful product!" thingy. Passing such a Landmark to the inquiring user guarantees they can go immediately to the exact product store and exact product display where the item was purchased, eliminating the frustration of first flying to, and FINDING the store in question, and then searching vainly for the product itself.

Not necessarily, because vehicles are often flown for enjoyment rather than strictly "to get somewhere". Part of the reason happens to be, well, overaggressive security orbs on the flight that'll launch you right out and ruin the ride. Like the time I was on my Huns Valen plane and got tossed. Or the time I was in my Shiryu Musashi car and fell through the road on a bad region crossing. Or the time I was in my Cubey Terra sub and found the waterways cluttered and blocked. I had to get out on foot, and fly. In the months after that, I really acclimated to Francis Chung & Rathe Underthorn's ROAM to save me time (i.e. so I could send IMs while beamporting).

Until such time vehicles in SL perform like There-buggies (which are frequently used for fun) and going across a whole coast doesn't result in jumpiness between the handoffs, I'll be keeping a keen but cautious outlook on this. I've also asked numerous vehicle creators what they'd like to see improved in terms of SL performance, and along with better physics, stability for the ride is certainly something. (On a heartening note, the TPs themselves have gotten smoother as to increase their reliability, and since 1.6, avatars going between regions aren't so susceptible to being borked—unless you hit a doomed four-corner junction the wrong way.)

I have a lot of time wasted as an explorer. One cripple is that "Add Landmark" was taken out so I can't just snag coords on the easy from someone's Profile. I haven't heard the reasoning behind this yet. And—

What's especially redundant, is some of these hubs, I have literally been there 100s of times. It at least sounds reasonable that, if you've been to a TH ONE HUNDRED times, that all further TPs within that area of coverage (as shown on the map) have the option of being direct, point-to-point.

Right, what evidence do you have to back this up?

I don't see at all how this would destroy the SL economy, I have quized 19 people (12 are females) on SL for you, thought I should share what I found:

19/19 Don't stop on their way to a destination todo a spontanious buy
03/19 Have shopped at a telehub, but only with the intent todo so, not spontanious
18/19 Use the Find places feature to find something they want
19/19 Ask their friends for something they want
00/19 Consider browsing any telehub looking for a item they are looking for (unless a friend or find places told them to)
18/19 Think the current telehub issue needs a solution
11/19 Think removing telehubs would resolve the situation
02/19 Don't mind keeping the current system

By the way, telehubs are not at premium value, LL does not sell it's land for a higher price, they do not require anyting additional from telehub land compared to other standard lands. Just because one or two land barrons may decide you have to pay extra. Well sorry, they should compensate you, not LL, LL didn't make the land more expensive to buy, so I don't see why they should even consider compensating.


I have seen many stores. I haven't seen that many ugly stores. Infact a lot of stores I have seen near telehubs don't even look ugly. I'm more concerned about clubs, tringo, slingo moving next to me.
However, I have noticed that, telehubs don't seem to influence their placement. Why, I just visited all the places on the popular lists.

Now, each place, except for private sims, don't even seem to be that close to a telehub in the first place. So it doesn't look to me like that's a issue. I browse on telehub sims, I rarely see that many clubs near the actual sim, never mind in it.

I will however agree that it does keep things like shops near a particular point. But, shops don't generally cause that many problems, it's clubs, tringo, slingo, bingo whatever, that causes the issues that everyone keeps raving about.


I fail to understand what this means. We all have the same prim allocation, based on how much land we get. Just browsed a few 'residential' sims (new land sims actually), a lot seem to have maxed out the amount of prims they can have on land... largest I saw free was 72 prims (I excluded land plots that didn't have any builds on it yet).

Browsed some shops land (specifically ones which have similar plot sizes to make it comparable) A lot of them have around 80-100 prims free.


Slingo, tringo, clubs etc. are already all over the place, I don't see how changing the TH system for something like point2point teleportation would change that.


I would rather we have a telehub platform in every sim, just a 1x1x0.5 circular platform on ONE parcel of linden land. No advertising boards, no additional things etc. That would solve the issues of privacy, teleporting directly into houses accidently and such.

We can keep the existing telehubs as they are however, and perhaps mark them as "commercial telehubs" instead?

However, I would rather pinpoint teleporting than the current telehubs installed. So I'm voting for it.

My proposal:

Add feature to land over a certain size (say, an acre) to allow tp to that location.

People who have that land up in their Find Places or from a Profile Picks can tehn use teleport option to teleport directly there, pending restrictions on groups / ban list.

Advantages:
- Allows landowners to have customers / visitors skip the "flight from telehub"
- Does not kill telehubs
- Essentially, it's an offline tp-invite - as if someone had a bot on their land that accepted an IM request for TP and automatically send a TP request.
- People can't just tp anywhere - which could infringe on privacy / intented remoteness.

How about:

Allow land owners to a local telehub on their land, but it will be tied into a group. Any memeber of that group can teleport to the hub. The land owner can also opt to pay a weekly fee that will open up his telehub for public use. In both cases the hub would only get used when going to a location within that land.

Land near to a Linden telehub should still be worth more as you would not need to pay for your own public telehub when there is one already near by.

Please provide a group of sims that do not allow direct teleportation and are not near any telehubs.

I'm not sure that if I am with someone and don't want to be disturbed on my land.....I've submitted a proposal to have the option of turning it off on your owned land...

http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=845

Take a look at that, and submit a vote if you have one!

Um, you already have an option to turn off direct teleport to your own land.

Check your land options. You can turn TP off, or direct it to a landing point.