1 havok, 2 havok, 3 havok......
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LordJason Kiesler
imperfection inventor.
Join date: 30 May 2004
Posts: 215
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04-16-2005 19:23
(EDIT): Please read my last post. #12Some people have made the jokes, "By the time LL uses havok 2, havok 3 will be done" Well I hoped that would be a joke. Looks like its not. http://www.havok.com/products/physics.phpNeway this is a thread to discuss, the preposal to skip 2 and go to 3. here From havok.com From: someone Havok Physics 3 is a major innovation in game physics that sets the bar for next generation games.
Based upon the award winning Havok Physics 2 SDK that has been licensed by over 70 clients and shipped in over 50 titles, Havok Physics 3 introduces Continuous Physics, an innovative technology that frees up production time by eliminating design limitations that stem from high-velocity game objects.
Unlike current generation physics systems, which utilize only discrete physics, Havok's Continuous Physics offers an extra level of integrity to your game, and removes restrictions and fix-ups that sap production time and ultimately restrict the design of your game.
Havok Physics 3 also incorporates robust memory optimizations that will be crucial for simulating physics in complex game environments on next generation platforms. Idk about the rest of you all, But I really like how "Continuous Physics" sounds.
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Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
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not ready for 3
04-16-2005 19:29
SL still uses poser 2 model..
SL can only progress so fast without leaving players behind. It's not a game that most will run out and by the latest hardware for.
There is still a chance that Havok 2 will be used first.
-Blueman
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Ardith Mifflin
Mecha Fiend
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,416
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04-16-2005 19:34
From: LordJason Kiesler Some people have made the jokes, "By the time LL uses havok 2, havok 3 will be done" Well I hoped that would be a joke. Looks like its not. http://www.havok.com/products/physics.phpNeway this is a thread to discuss, the preposal to skip 2 and go to 3. From havok.com Idk about the rest of you all, But I really like how "Continuous Physics" sounds. Though I would love to wiggle my nose and wish it into being, the implementation of a physics system is not an overnight job, and it sounds as if the dev staff have already contributed a large amount of time to getting Havok 2 implemented, though we've not reaped any of the benefits yet. I wonder what the timeframe is for Havok 3. When do you think the first games will start rolling out with it? Do you think it will be phenomenally better? |
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LordJason Kiesler
imperfection inventor.
Join date: 30 May 2004
Posts: 215
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04-16-2005 19:48
Well the largest reason I suggested this is,
"Continuous Physics, Havok's latest innovation, which detects collisions continuously, rather than simply checking at discrete time steps,"
This is just an educated guess, but I think that would make client side predictions better to.
Thus using less bandwidth.
Allowing much better vehicles.
Possably allowing something like a fps to work much more reliably.
etc, etc.
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Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
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Oh forget physics...
04-17-2005 01:33
What SL'ers really want in for SL to look more like this... **** WARNING ADULT CONTENT ***** http://www.virtuallyjenna.com/ |
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Xero Zaius
Registered User
Join date: 4 Jan 2004
Posts: 17
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Good luck with that
04-25-2005 19:28
Good luck with that; by the time we get Havok 2 in they will already have Havok 4 or 5 released. Let alone our linux client.
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Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
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04-25-2005 20:30
Havok 2 is probably "almost done", rumors are that it'll be in the next big version (1.7).
Also its been said that Havok 3 offers SL no added features to make use of and that most improvements are for pre-rendering games, like Half Life 2, etc. I'm not sure about that though.
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Byron McHenry
Registered User
Join date: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 204
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04-26-2005 17:32
From: Oz Spade Havok 2 is probably "almost done", rumors are that it'll be in the next big version (1.7).
Also its been said that Havok 3 offers SL no added features to make use of and that most improvements are for pre-rendering games, like Half Life 2, etc. I'm not sure about that though. also you can run a businesses constanly getting th4e most current uptodate product its expensive to do so. they probly wait for a few havocks becuase their client will run good and provide the uses what they want dont expect a engine update for a year or 2 after havo2 release. people still have to update thier comps too i like to see sl where i cant run it a maximum my self |
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
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04-26-2005 20:22
If I recall correctly, the last time this was asked in the Hotline the response was something to the effect that Havok 3 was too new for LL to want to risk a port yet, but they're watching it closely. The investment in the port to Havok 2 must factor into it as well, I would think.
I've heard that the physics engine is the reason for the 10m limit on prim size. Does anyone know if Havok 2 would address this? Should we ask Cory at the townhall? I hate to bother him with it if the answer is already available.
neko
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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04-26-2005 21:44
From: Nekokami Dragonfly If I recall correctly, the last time this was asked in the Hotline the response was something to the effect that Havok 3 was too new for LL to want to risk a port yet, but they're watching it closely. The investment in the port to Havok 2 must factor into it as well, I would think.
I've heard that the physics engine is the reason for the 10m limit on prim size. Does anyone know if Havok 2 would address this? Should we ask Cory at the townhall? I hate to bother him with it if the answer is already available.
neko The 10m prim limit is due to Sim border crossings. If you got any bigger you'd have funky issues with prims "being there but not", and it'd just be a big mess. As an example, rez a 10m block right on the border (128, 255) and walk to the next sim. See how your av drops down? That's because the next sim over doesn't actually have the prim you just rezzed; it's technically still in the previous sim. Ergo, you fall. Havok3, while "new and shiny", allegedly doesn't bring much to the table as far as SL is concerned... if I'm understanding the lindens right, it's designed more for pre-compiled worlds (unreal tourney, etc.) Havok2 is a monumental step forward, if they implement even HALF of the features. Mmmm, rope physics. Mmmm, ragdoll. I'd be happy with just those two. And better collisions. LF
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Kasandra Morgan
Self-Declared Goddess
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 639
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04-26-2005 22:07
Wow, they are as unenthused in that game as they are in their actual porn. |
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LordJason Kiesler
imperfection inventor.
Join date: 30 May 2004
Posts: 215
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06-02-2005 22:57
If your voting for this, I suggest removing your votes. Even I have abandoned this preposal In favor of NovodeX. At first reading This thread , Well actually more like skimming, I did not give it much thought. But Im now working with NovodeX on another project outside of SL, and Ide just like to say, take Havok to the closest garbage can. You can vote for NovodeX Here.
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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06-03-2005 05:27
But Novodex requires a hefty investment in new hardware, no?
Plus it's rather unproven... Why don't we wait for a few years for it to actually be used by a finished product?
LF
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LordJason Kiesler
imperfection inventor.
Join date: 30 May 2004
Posts: 215
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06-03-2005 22:30
From: Lordfly Digeridoo But Novodex requires a hefty investment in new hardware, no?
Plus it's rather unproven... Why don't we wait for a few years for it to actually be used by a finished product?
LF No it dosnt "require" any extra hardware, Its a physics engine like havok, but better. Check out this Novodex demo app. And play with the physics , NOTE: without a ppu. And as an option it will work with ppu's when they are readily available. And the way sl works, "physics on the sim, just rendering on the client" the users shouldnt need extra hardware even IF ll decides to use the ppu's. Some engines, games, studios, etc using NovodeX. Unreal Engine 3 " Click here" to read about Novodex and Unreal. Cryptic Studios - City of Villains Reality EngineCellfactor Ritualistic
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Byron McHenry
Registered User
Join date: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 204
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06-03-2005 23:13
soooooooo...
1.6 purpose was to prepare for havok 2 they have been working on it for a wile switching form havok 1 to havok 2 itsint going top be easy letalone switching to a whole new phisics engine that may require a whole remake of the game you might aswell call it Second life 2 or second life phase 2.
im not worried about the hardware but its not feasable to implament with out starting over on work that has been going for months now and possibly will be released in the year some time.
but unless they provide something that is much greater than havok then it would be like the photo editor argument both do the job just they have strong points over each other dosent mean you abandon it.
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Ardith Mifflin
Mecha Fiend
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,416
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06-03-2005 23:17
From: LordJason Kiesler No it dosnt "require" any extra hardware, Its a physics engine like havok, but better. Check out this Novodex demo app. And play with the physics , NOTE: without a ppu. And as an option it will work with ppu's when they are readily available. And the way sl works, "physics on the sim, just rendering on the client" the users shouldnt need extra hardware even IF ll decides to use the ppu's. Some engines, games, studios, etc using NovodeX. Unreal Engine 3 " Click here" to read about Novodex and Unreal. Cryptic Studios - City of Villains Reality EngineCellfactor RitualisticI was about to trash Novodex, but the demo was (at times) very impressive. It is definitely equal to Havok 2, though I'm unwilling to go as far as to suggest that it's better. Perhaps from a coding perspective, Novodex might be better/easier to implement. However, as an end user I'd say they're comparable. I also think that, since they're already working on H2, that demanding a switch to a new engine is premature. Besides, which I've not yet seen any H3-based apps. Might H3 be better than Novodex? (By the way, the siege demo in the Novodex app is awesome.) |
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Christopher Omega
Oxymoron
Join date: 28 Mar 2003
Posts: 1,828
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06-04-2005 00:23
From: Oz Spade Also its been said that Havok 3 offers SL no added features to make use of and that most improvements are for pre-rendering games, like Half Life 2, etc. I'm not sure about that though. Eh, the fact that bullets will no longer pass through shields, no matter how fast they're moving sounds like a pretty massive feature improvement to me.  This has connotations for many other uses of the physics engine as well... the erraticness of SL's current friction model is one of my pet peeves at the moment. Friction is a force that acts continuously upon two objects in contact with one another. The "real world" runs continuously, or at least in "frames" that have a time dialation close to the planck length. (I think. theorists please correct me if I'm wrong.) Anything that improves SL's realism is a big pro in my book. Though it kinda sucks if that precompiled part is true though  ==Chris |
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xtrahyper Bauer
Registered User
Join date: 4 Jul 2004
Posts: 8
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06-06-2005 11:16
damn perv get a nice average girl keep dreaming, you jenna jamson=no chance in hell  |
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Siro Mfume
XD
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 747
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10-30-2005 17:06
Rather than start a new thread about Havok 3, I decided to bump one that talked about it...
1.7 is here, (yay?) No havok2? Nothing? Someone tells me they've been promised Havok2 since Beta. As far as I'm concerned you can DROP the whole Havok2 thing (since it's not delivering), and move on to Havok3 (which is in version 3.2 now). It'll take advantage of all those shiney dual processors out there (a big boost for some of you) and if they bother to implement the Complete version, we'll have physics related animation too.
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Roland Hauptmann
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 323
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10-31-2005 09:56
I gotta agree. I recently started playing around with SL, and while it's certainly fun, I was suprised to see that it was using such an old physics engine.
The nice thing about new physics engines, is that they make building realistic objects far more intuitive, and tend to greatly reduce the amount of actual scripting necessary.
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Escort DeFarge
Together
Join date: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 681
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10-31-2005 12:03
Oh, don't forget Novodex and PS3 etc...
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Byron McHenry
Registered User
Join date: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 204
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10-31-2005 14:55
they said its wasnot ready to be put in yet but later could mean 2035 but it give those working on good projects alittle more time and my dsl should be back up this week hopefully.
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Siro Mfume
XD
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 747
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11-11-2005 23:33
Honestly, Havok2 won't address my one biggest gripe, the imprecise collisions. So really, just skip to 3. It's way better.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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11-12-2005 00:03
You have a good point there, Blue. How'd you find out about that, hmm? I have been wondering when the porno industry would move into the multi-player online field in full force for years now. That thing is single-user, isn't it?
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Neil Protagonist
FX Monkey
Join date: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 346
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11-14-2005 16:45
As some of you know I have worked directly with the Novodex system creating tech demos for the PPU. I have to say its mighty kick ass. The things you can do are amazing. I know at some point back I promised some links to the video's we produced. I thought this was as good a place as any to post the link (in case I hadnt already). Anyway, I am all in favor of using this system. Its damn cool. http://www.airtightgames.com/currentproject.html There are three vids showing off what is capable. Enjoy.
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