Question about Billboards

What's so bad about the billboards in question, anyway? I think they're tastefully done, both the texturing and the engineering of them, and they only take up a small chunk of land. I would love to put up one of Si's billboards next to my build, if only everyone wasn't so hairtrigger opposed to the idea of advertising!

I don't think its where they are built, or the textures on them, i think its the size of them.

For me personally, i like them, the advertising on them is great, but when it comes to having one near me...ick

If one ever shows up on any of the small public areas left in Teal, i will be very.....upset...

Hippos and Cows will be called to remove it!!! muhaha

(yes i'm strange hehe)

Boycotting is an excellent way of letting a business know that you don't like what they're doing.

The signs are huge, and even if they were gorgeous, they would *still* be intrusive. They're just too much. Nobody wants to live or work having one of them stare them in the face all day.

I don't even want to have one stare me in the face when I'm flying around or visiting a friend. They detract from the many lovely builds we now have.

Let's each take a look at our builds and commit to making a significant improvement over the next week or so. It will enhance our own personal experience in SL as well as that of our neighbors.

Thank you for starting this thread, Shadow. This is a good discussion.

Candie

This has nothing to do with size. The size/design/texturing of them was meant to be similar to RL ones, to make them authentic, to prove that we're more serious about this than just putting up a big red flashing rotating box. There was a lot of thought put into it and they cost a lot more to operate because of it, but this was a choice made versus just some careless throw up a box idea like you see everywhere else.

Even if they were smaller, which would save me a lot of money! You would still complain, because you're so anti-advertising, which is the silliest thing ever. Advertising is a part of life, a necessary evil, it stimulates business, growth, and economics, it pushes new ideas, promotes competition which results in better products and services for consumers.

The bottom line is that far and few of you want any commercial entities in SL, you all want "residential" areas, with beautiful homes and gardens. While that is fine and all, the question remains, how are you going to pay for them? Most people live and depend on their stipends, which was never a design goal of SL, it was just to help people get started so the taxes didn't stunt *any* development. I just can't understand the logic behind this.

If you don't want billboards or ugly buildings next to your house, BUY THE LAND NEXT TO YOUR HOUSE. I've never stopped you from doing that. But you're so set on stopping others from building what they want and enjoy.

Our billboards have NEVER spammed notecards, they don't make noise, they don't shout out messages to the sim. They just sit quietly idle on their own land until someone *chooses* to click on them, which then and only then are they offered a landmark or notecard, which it specifically states on the bottom will happen in large clear text.

You can't demand "billboards" be banned because you can't define them. Some of you may not care about freedom, but I do, very much so, and will go to extremities to defend it, not only for myself, but for all future residents of SL. You ban the right to advertise and you ban the right to many freedoms you rightfully currently enjoy and will regret losing later. If you demand all forms of advertising be removed, then remove your homes because they're advertising you, the resident, a large, very intrustive expression of an individual that many use for commercial interests and personal gain.

Stop being so closed minded and shortsided in thinking that everyone wants a home and garden, some of us have higher expectations and goals. Goals which you want to oppress, but you don't see us blocking and boycotting your homes. Is that because your homes are better looking? No. It's because we have learned to live with others, why haven't you?

Negatively rate me, boycott the billboards, flame me on the forums, I can live with that, but demand that I stop expressing myself and you will see the fury of man.

The signs are 20x10, but ironically enough, Candie's walls of textures and wings dwarf them into oblivion. Pot... calling Kettle?

Also, just for the record, I never meant to target Maggie Miller out in my previous post. I know she is anti-billboard, and in no way meant to imply that she was in favor of them.

I simply wanted to address that her approach was very mature, and respectable. I wanted to point out that we had at least talked and discussed the issues. Contrary to the previous comments that we hadn't talked to anyone, which I think is a very unfair statement.

We always listen to your comments. If you feel your messages have gone unanswered, they were either unfair demands, suggestions, or questions that there was no good way to respond to or didn't need a response. More than likely though we were simply away or offline, we do have day jobs and first lives!

I stated this before but looks like it got overshadowed.... HAWAII DOES NOT ALLOW BILLBOARDS !! None, no kind, no matter what size.

It's such a shame we have no business or new ideas or competition.....(read HEAVY sarcasm here)




This statement is so ridiculous I'm not even going to comment on it.




I don't pretend to be up on my State laws, however, if you guys are interested, I can find out what Hawaii defines as a billboard. Maybe that would be the example to use.




I have NEVER negatively rated anyone, and I doubt I ever will. At least you are here defending your point of view and your doing it intelligently. That alone gives you a posative rating in my eyes. However, I do not agree with the use of billboards, and I can and will boycott your shops. If that gets me negative ratings, then so be it.


-tk

I would like to pipe up at this stage. I'm pretty new to the game and own land in Clemetina just behind said billboard. When I first bought my land, I would have gladly bought the land right up the the sim edge if (A) I had had enough money at the time and (B) if I also had realised that NOT buying the land would put me in the situation that I am in now, i.e. there's a massive great billboard at the end of my garden. If the sign isn't going to be moved then please delete the pole and fit antigravity engines to the sign please, just to lessen the visual impact.

I have now earned a referral so I am the happy position of being able to buy all the land up to the sim edge should it become available.

I quite understand that some people want to earn as much money as possible, and that's fine by me. Personally, I just want to live somewhere with nice neighbours and attractive surroundings, and no, I don't want to move, because I love my spot in Clementina. I just want the big ugly billboard to go, surely that will not mess up your business model too much.

(edited for slight typo, oops)

Why? If you want to control what happens on a piece of land, claim it. Don't expect everyone to do what you think is correct.

Am I the only person that actually uses negative ratings, now, too? I've got to have one of the most unpopular sets of ideas in SL ...

People have to have things their way, and only their way. They can't accept anything else, and will complain incessantly until the world is in their view, right. That's what's so bad about the billboards in question.

Unfortunately, most of my land in Taber is at the very edge of the SL World. Not a very effective advertising spot.

I do own a couple plots of land around Shadow's in that portion of Taber as well.

And it's probably worth noting too, that I did not care to have things built immediately around my house. So what did I do?

God forbid, I bought the land around it!

People certainly could NEVER do that, no, we just have to complain when we buy our land, build to the very extent of it, and then someone else buys the rest of the land and builds on it, because it's harassment! It's a violation of our rights!

I'm afraid i'm seriously starting to get sick of this. If people can't start providing CONSTRUCTIVE criticism (not you, Ama) I may have to change my policy to ignoring all inquiries about my builds/signs.

Or perhaps, I will start my new campaign:

I do not like any of your houses in Taber. They offend me, they are too close to the back end of my house and land. Please remove them immediately, as we cannot stand this and it's clearly harassment that you have built these structures in the same sim as me without my permission.

No, no, actually I get negative appearance ratings because people don't like my signs! Can't beat that one, apparently my av deserves a negative appearance rating because people don't like my forum threads too.

No billboards is NOT the same as no advertising which is the what I said. The bigger debate here is advertising, people are completely opposed to it. I said advertising. I did not say billboards.

Hawaii also happens to make most of it's money off tourism, tourism generated by buying ads (billboards!) in OTHER states (read sims).





I have never negatively rated anyone simply for negatively rating me. I rarely rate negatively, and the few I have have been because of literal TOS abuse after several warnings.

It is nigh-impossible if not pointless to check with every land owner around a space to see what they "like". If you did this nothing, anywhere, ever would be built.


So, what part of that do you not consider harassment under the Secondlife Community Standards? You're putting it up with no express purpose other than to block another person's build? That's a pretty bold step, if I may say so.

This, is what I consider (riddled) contructive criticism, and this is certainly possible. We'll discuss it and get back with you.

These type of suggestions are what we want.

Nice post Basingstoke, however if you are that new, I do believe the billboard was there before you. It has just been moved slightly over now to improve the view of the waterfall, but if it has become more intrustive that way, we can simply move it back to where it was.

As I have stated before, we were there BEFORE most of the residents now surrounding it in Clementina, Clementina used to look drastically different before the recent beta wipes.

I never claimed they did.. there are some places using these "tools" though. I personally dislike both methods, creative as they are. So, I dont shop these places in return.

I think the main thing that Rathe nor Si understand is that people don't want huge billboards near their land. I've counted at least 3 billboards all around SL (at least, that's what i believe, but don't quote me on that), and to me, that's overdoing it a bit. Why don't you try and stick one near the welcome area, or better yet, use the advertisers near stage 4, that's what they are there for. Most of the people who will look at your billboards will be newbies anyways, and some of them go to the adverstising kiosks, so rather than upsetting all of the vetern players around by riddling the world in advertising billboards, which seem intrusive (ecspecially near Taber, since Sia Sunchaser has worked so hard to make that area seem more like nature), just make one or two smaller ones, and advertise at the kiosks.

And by the way, if you look at the billboards from Sia's place, it really does seem out of place there. If you look around it, like, nature, nature, nature, then boom, big honking billboard, and that's not cool. You guys are losing a lot of buisness because of this, because I know i'm one of a lot of the SLers who won't visit your store, nor refer any newbies I meet.

And one more thing I forgot to add. Just because you CAN do something doesn't necessarily make it right. I CAN go out and shoot somebody, but i'll face the consequences. Or, better yet, I CAN go out and paste signs up over other peoples signs, but that doesn't necessarily mean i'm right. Think about others before you do something, it'll make you more popular.

Although your ideas are not bad, they won't work. Welcome areas are no build. The welcome area advertising kiosks are a very small newbie targeted but neat feature, but they're Linden owned and operated so. Not really practical for what we're doing.

You have to understand, we are running a marketing business, NOT marketing for our own stores. The stores that have been advertised thus far do not belong to us. It's a way to help promote other stores, other sims, other social areas, at a cost benefit to the client. Unless you'd rather they all set up their own signs? (That was a joke, for the humour impaired) ~~

If anyone is interested in placing an ad though, feel free to send us an IM in game!

I own 3500+ in land now. I just sold some last week. Shadow bought 16-20k in land before you moved that sign there. How much does he have to buy? Basing was there before that sign moved to where it is now.



AND YOUR NOT BLOCKING ANYONES BUILD?
Last night you told me the sign was the same as my castle. All Pollygons ect. The difference is I work and live at my castle, you dont live at your sign. Even if I dont like someones house I feel they have a right to build it. Billboard isnt the same thing.





I didnt build my home 6 feet in front of 3 other peoples land.

[/B]

Absolutely not, that would be rather pointless. Were the sign blocked by someone's build, it would be useless. At the most, there is a "post" which is a simple cylinder of maybe 1meter in diameter which would be "blocking" anything. That's there for aesthetics, it looks odd without it. We'll look into that. But no, we do not "block" anything, our signs have no purpose to block any view anywhere, their purpose is to display an advertisement, plain and simple. The goal of that is to be visible, not invisible.

This 3 feet 6 inches yada yada business is ridiculous, you CHOOSE where on your land you build. There will always be someone who owns the land next to yours. If you want "buffer space", BUY IT. Leave it empty, call it a day. Welcome to nothing ever being built in front of you!

Then what's the complaint? If he has that much land, he should have plenty of a buffer zone or do you consider being in front of him the entire sim?




Well then, tear down all the parks! People certainly don't live and work in those! However, we DO work in our billboards, I even sleep on them at night! I guess you just can't see my av when he's logged.

Ok this has gone on long enough. Apparently I have opened a can of worms here.

First off I never at any point mentioned anyone’s name when I stated the scenario that I originally posted.
Can it be implied that I did? Not really.

I asked a simple question to all of SL and yes billboards are needed in certain circumstances and certain locations. Am I against advertising not really but I am against it when encroaches on a pre-established environment. Yes Definitely.

Pre-existing, That is not a determination of who has been there longer but what is there the moment that you do it.

Anyone can pick apart a thread and throw stones I for one am the first one to admit my faults I.E the removal of the build I put up to cover the bill board. I apologized for that already by admitting I was wrong in the first place for doing it.

First off earlier in previous posts my original thread was picked apart by several people.

Please note at no point did I:
a) Scream Take it down. I said others said it had to go.
b) Lead the chant BAN Billboards
c) Start a petition to boycott the establishment.
d) Rally Impose our rights and wishes on the Individuals that made the sign.

The points that I wanted brought to light were this.

#1 Consideration of others as to what you do.

Yes you will attempt to flame me on this but it does not matter because I already admitted what I did wrong out if in-consideration so moot point there.

So yes consideration of others is a serious point which I have seen so readily thrown to the wayside by arrogance and the belief that one is right. Whether I am right or wrong in my opinion does not matter I still have to be considerate of others. Consideration is defined by attempting “Attempting” to resolve an issue by consulting those that it “MAY” effect. At no point were any of the members that its effecting consulted and that’s why this thread is here which leads me to my next point.

Was I considerate by posting this thread? No! I wasn't but at the same time it brought to light a situation that is so readily overlooked. Lack of consideration of others leads to this misconception and plenty more things that I dare not get into at the moment. (Again noted a fault of mine for posting the original thread admitted publicly so picking it apart is a moot point) However, through my “in-consideration” this will be a topic that is not soon forgotten.

#2 The basis or spirit of this thread as designed was to ferret out do we need to have Regulation of Billboard advertisements or builds that grotesquely overshadow ones that were pre-existing.

Don't get me wrong as a fellow builder I had to admire the quality and workmanship that has went into the billboard. That was a task in itself.

My honest Opinion NO I don't like it being there especially when I wasn't consulted on it. However even though it was inconsiderate of Si and Rathe not to consult myself or my fellow bay dwellers on its build. I habor no ill will toward them not even a negative rating.

But as they continue to respond and get more “flam”boyant with their commentary I am drawing nearer to distaste because they are closing their minds. I am perceiving this is due to it seems everyone is attacking them. In response they are dishing out more negative response than any constructive solutions. Even though the original intent of the thread was not to be an attack against them as individuals. Although, they have drawn the attention to themselves unnecessarily by attempting to disassemble everyone’s thoughts and responses.

To SI and Rathe: Yes this is directed at you not via cover of copy n quote

Guys this is alienating you from gaining more business and shutting down your business was not my intent here. People want to deal with positive upbeat business owners that are willing to consider the opinion and needs of the populace. By going in to a defensive posture and trying to pick people apart you are being less constructive than they are with their postings and in the end it makes you look bad and brings into question that aforementioned integrity that you so highly spoke of.

Please settle down and think objectively, at the moment it seems as though the mass majority on the message board does not approve. Regroup and rethink things through.

Does this mean I am saying take it down? No!!!
It means pay attention to what your public wants.

I understand you want to make money I understand that you need a method of getting your establishment known and granted I applaud you for all your hard work on what you have done with the billboard unfortunately I just don’t like it in my back yard.

However, the lack of consideration can push a tidal wave of discontent that will destroy what you have so earnestly worked so hard to build.

Had I kept my mouth shut this would have been what happened. People would have had malcontent because it was there. They would have silently boycotted your establishment through a network of friends.<<networking hmm that’s an Idea for advertising ask Tcoz about how much he is bothered in IM’s by people given his name via word of mouth through networking. I am sure he will explain how it detracts from his gaming experience. But for you two it would be a positive since you are trying to be an advertising management firm.

By me posting this openly it has given you the chance to either redeem the situation by offering constructive solutions to those that currently are displeased. This would lead to loyalty because you worked with your populace instead of ignoring their feelings.

Or you can continue to travel the current path by showing your arrogance and stubbing up saying “I’m not gonna move it why don’t you move yours cause I don’t like your house.” Now how childish does that sound especially when “I” haven’t even said to move it or made any demands?

I just went back to the boards a moment and the two of you are getting more and more snobbish by the moment. Think of it, you are running an advertising firm right?

Well then get into the hearts and minds of your proposed customer base don’t alienate them by being arrogant. Acting in a belligerent manor about the responses posted here is hurting your Customers that are paying you to advertise for them.

Peer pressure is a “female dog” and by being arrogant you are not only alienating your prospective client and client base you are alienating their prospective customers by dragging their name down with you.

That’s why RL businesses do business plans with R&D of the surrounding area. A billboard may be the greatest thing in the world to advertise on but when its placed in the wrong local it can bring forth a negative influx of business instead of a positive. Currently and apparently your R&D was not enough and has brought this on.

At this point I have made no requests nor have I berated belittled or picked apart anyone. I have given an objective view of the situation as how I see it. Again as how “I” see it. I have stated my opinion that I don’t like it but there again that is my given right to speak my mind as long as I do not violate the TOS.

In definition of Harassment the moment I post this and it gets read I earnestly expect to see it tore to shreds and flutter way on the winds of deaf ears. By picking apart a thread is harassment in itself. Be wary of what you say or what you do, things come back to bite you in the caboose and the shark with teeth that’s doing it won’t be me. Always remember when pointing a finger you have three pointing back at you that’s why when I do something I point with my whole arm..

Again SI and Rathe Consider what I have said here and rethink your position. I know you have every right to do what ever you see fit. But remember a little consideration goes a long way I think by this whole thread I have proven my point about being considerate even by admitting my own faults. Be less judgmental and do what is needed to make this situation right I will leave that in your hands but when I lay down the torch momentarily someone else might pick it up and carry it further than I.

Take care and have fun its just a game for Pete’s sake…LOL Geesh


Sincerely, ShadowWeaver

Holy long post Batman.

Anyhow, to get down to it. I don't harbor any ill feelings to you Shadow. I have received some ill comments and behavior from others who I will not name here.

If you speak to Maggie and the others, you'll find I have been discussing this with them, and i'm open to suggestions on how to make it more pleasing to you.

I thank you for being reasonable in the sense you do not ask it to be deleted, and you removed the blocker. Unfortunately, there are others still who say it "must go" and I have "no right" to build it near "homes".

While I do apologize for not realizing your building there was going to be as tall as it is, when it was moved there the building was a rather flat untextured platform which stood about 25 meters below the sign at the top :} I have a hard time reading minds, and unfortunately meeting with everyone in the area to find out what they have built, and on top of that what they plan on doing in the future is rather impossible.

It is people like you who keep me reasonable and open to redesigns and other such considerations, including movement. While not all of these are logical (IE: Moving the sign by my house, due to it's location at the edge of the world) some of them such as redesigning the post, are certainly acceptable.

If you have some redesign ideas, please let me know, we'll see what we can do. We have a few ideas in the works right now for some variation. And this extends to everyone.

There are a few things, we obviously cannot do, due to work involved (custom ads and signs for every sim, changing the size of the sign, never building near a "home" or "residential area". These are not because we don't want to, but there are only a small number of us who do these. The ads take hours to create in the first place, so variations of them for a dozen signs would take us weeks. While considering location we do try to do, it's nearly impossible in game. There is something everywhere, and someone will always build a house somewhere. That's just how SL works. We try to pick areas which make sense for our purposes, which means high traffic areas. Land simply is not that open in SL to where we could do that, and even if it were, it does not benefit us to build in an area where there are no people and is no traffic

So, for all you photoshoppers and builders who would like to contribute your ideas to us to better help YOU, please feel free to grab a picture of the sign, photoshop it up, come up with designs for us, present them, etc. We're all ears. You can contact me by leaving me an IM in SL, or you can email me at [email]sndimp@shadows.nu[/email].

I can be found in world normally after 12:30 AM (midnight thirty) CST and will gladly listen to any constructive comments.

We are not being arrogant or trying to alienate anyone. Any arrogance you sense is defense, you are obviously not the first person, and certainly not the last person who's going to make a stance about the billboards. It gets old fast, but will that stop me and make me go away? No. Will I listen to opinions, ideas, constructive criticism? Yes. If that's what you call arrogance, then so be it.

I just find it very hypocritical the demands you make of us, when you will happily go into any sim, buy up land, and build whatever houses you want. Yes it may be a GOOD idea to ask your neighbours first, but not very practical. In real life there's obviously zoning regulations, and politicians to set them, and voting mechanisms to elect them. A FAIR electoral process, not what we have here where there will always be one person who opposes ANY idea. We don't have that here, and you're asking us to take on the burden of organizing that which is highly unfeasible, yet you wouldn't do the same to build a home. That is UNFAIR.

When I spoke about "being there first" in reference to Clementina, this was not just about being there, or owning land there, it was about the billboard specifically. We bought the land and rez'ed it at the same time. You built your houses AROUND it. (Yes I am aware it was moved recently, slightly over, but still in the same general area, and we can happily move it back if that is the issue, as I have suggested before, but the billboard was still THERE.)

If you're to insist on this whole "ask your neighbours" policy than I shall take this moment to request that all new residents vacate the area of Clementina until asking our permission to build your homes around our billboard. ???

That's what I thought... not very fair/practical is it?