Do You Think Bonuses Are Welfare? IF So Give your Solution and Opinion!

Ok this is becomming a hot topic quickly. I am not a builder, I am not a Merchant, I am not a Scripter. If bonuses were taken out of Secondlife and or Stipends; 70% of Secondlifers wouldn't be able to afford your products. Don't Bitch about the Ratings problem, give a Solution!

Blake, Partner look my name up on past posts and Drift Monde and Hiro and a few others that have posted possible Solutions even Kex Godel posted one once. The ratings have been beat to death brought to life and beat to death again.

Your right its the threads of the day...but again I fear they will not be addressed until other issues LL has been working on is resolved.

Shadow.

Hmm, seems like there's a lot you don't do, and not much that you do. How about instead of bitching about people wanting to get rid of the ratings system, you give a solution, instead of saying that it should stay the same simply because it gets you money?

I think it's pretty short-sighted to not infer that if the ratings system was eliminated, that base stipend for those 70% of people would go up, at the VERY VERY least.

Probably more would happen. But as you accuse others of not contributing, Blake, you aren't doing much to fix the problem --- nor do we 'owe' it to you to provide you with a solution.

Keep in mind that this subject has already been discussed IN DEPTH, and if you took the time to look around, you may find out that many, many proposals have been made.

But I take it that researching before you rant is also something that you "don't do" in SL.

i have posted tens, if not quite hundreds of posts about the reputation system and why i think its doing SL more harm than good.. but not *ONE*, not a single post, did not involve thoughts about some OTHER, potentially better way of getting the same number of lindens to people in SL who are active, in some other way than by tying them to a system.

My issue is that by tying money to 'ratings', ratings cease to become a useful metric of judging player behavior and simply become a metric for judging how desperate for lindens a player is. You loose the information for the noise.

when we say ratings should not be tied to money, we're saying that money should be given out in a way not affected by ratings, not that $50L or even $500L ought to be enough for people

Right. Nobody is saying, Blake, that it's time for you to stop getting money. Along with this, player stipends have to be addressed because the economy has changed in SL.

L$50 base for 9.95'ers is useless. I think everyone knows that. Even L$500 for premium users probably has to be addressed, too.

And much of this has been addressed. So, yes, there are folks out there trying to work this out in an equitable way, for you.

Even if there isn't a benefit in it for them. Imagine that.

Sure I have a simple solution..one could be making stipend based on longevity with Secondlife. My perception of your point is that if you don't make something or sell something you are worthless. IF my perception is incorrect, then explain it.

The issue is here and now with replies not some archived reply from a year ago..your point is moot. It is not my job to fix the problem; if you think it is a problem then don't bitch about it, provide insight and posssible solution.

How do you know what I don't do??! Or what others don't do? Are you judging everyone here that isn't a Merchant or Scripter saying we don't do anything? We don't participate in Club Owner Events? I am in the Entertainment Business as you can tell by my Signature, so; you are saying that I don't contribute much if I participate in Wedding Parties? Club Events? Are you saying that 70% of the SL population doesn't do much? As far as accusing others of not contributing, where did I say that? I said if you want to bitch about it, give a solution as well.

I never said the Ratings System should stay the same, you implied that. I don't believe in Negative Ratings Period nor do I agree with abusing the Rating System. Bottom line it is tied to weekly bonus and people are gonna rate others not simply just out of monetary gain, but; also out of curtiousy. Maybe you should take the Negative out of your Rating System. OMG! LOL!

The Positive Rating System is also designed to implement players into Socializing from responses of "Thank you." "YOu're very welcomed." "By the way i've seen you at other places before, where was it?" It prompts conversation and Social interaction as well, not just because your AV looks good. And if you respond with a positive attitude you may get a Positive Attitude Rating. The question is..would people interact with each other without compensation with the Rating System; im sure some would. Im not saying the Rating System should be tied to bonuses, however; it gives incentive.

The main issue should be "Abuse of Negative Ratings" not "Abuse of Positive Ratings" that is simply illogical and it benefits the Merchants and the sales of Products/Commerce.

LMAO...maybe you did go read my solution thread..

Yes thats what my solution was based on was longevity and actual time in world. Garnering daily points for time spent and accumlating over time.

Anyway I already posted a VERY long thread on that before which back then was met with dismissal.....

Funny, how the olbies have seen this for a while but noooooobody would listen to us when we ranted and raved about it. But now everything we olbies discussed in the past is starting to come to the forefront of the communitys minds...Go figure.

Shadow...(ANCIENT)

I added a few things to the above post as well to make another point. *bump*

Hmm..no offense Shadow, but that solution, and the tone of your post, sounds very elitist. So the folks that have already had a long time to establish themselves in-world, find a way to make money, and having accumulated quite a bit of goods, would get MORE L$ than someone coming in-world, with hardly anything to thier name, with no way of earning cash other than events?? Hmm..can't say I'd advocate that, and it might just cause me to help rally the midbies and join the newbies in thier revolution...

As for fair solutions, dump the rating system, give everyone a base stripend of L$1000 a week for basic accounts and L$2000 for premium accounts.

And while we are at it, let's either add some land tiers to put between the large jumps, or charge folks per squre meter of land they own, using the highest amount of land owned each month as the billing amount. Perhaps $2 per 1,000 sqm. That way if I owned a maximum of 16,000m in a given month it would be an additional $32 to my bill for that billing period. Land use fees are really kinda ridiculously high and prohibitive in the scheme of online games or chat programs.

Now thats a Republican for ya... w00t w00t... More power to ya Blake. Tell those winny liberals the 411... Those buncha cry babies.. hehehehe

Vive le midbies!

Your so sexy when your speaking in a foreign language..

Your "republican" friend bitched about the situation, and didn't give a solution.

Silence Liberal.... You cannot speak bad about the Right.. Whatever we say is the absolute truth.. Kneel before your masters..

Actually David, When I say Longevity it would have to start from a point not the point I joined mind you. Just like when they updated from 1.1 to 1.2 everyone was put back on equal footing. To enact the Longevity aspect would have to be started from a set date and moved forward from there.

Actually I will have to dig out my orginal post as it was quite long and rather extensive in its description...so basically by reading my summarised statment you have misunderstood the intent overall.

In addition to that David the aspect of Longevity in my orginal post kinda worked like dwell but for the individual avatar.

Simply put if your here every day of the week for 7 days for at least 1hr a day you would get 1 point for that day. Your Longevity bonus for that week would be determend over your longevity at that point.

IE...if you log in every day for 30days you are at 100% of a base Longevity rate.

If you log in 24 of 30 days then your at 80% of a base longevity rate.

On your annual the percentage for the year would be tallied for example if you spent 300 of 365 days in world for at least 1 hour then your annual rate would be 82% thus a annual cumulative base could be something like L$ 200 thus from the first year on your weekly stip you would get a weekly addition of 164 for your first years Longevity.

Second year rolls around and your there all 365 days however its got to factor in with your first years as its cummulative based on actual time spent in world. So 365+300=665 out of 730 thus rating you a 91% for the second year and you would get 182 additional weekly.

Now third year rolls round and you get a real life job that cuts heavly into your SL time so your there only 200 days out of 365...thus 200+300+365=865 out of possible 1095 thus the third year you drop down to 79% gaining you a 158 a week addition.

Basically it would be based off of an individuals efforts. It could be set up to calculate daily or weekly or monthly but either way it would be based on an individuals contribution or inworld ethics...not a simple I been here this longg so I get this much aspect.

Then again my solution may not really fit Longevity but more so Inworld involvement bonus.

Hope that helps clear it up some David and I think they have deleted my thread on this as each time I post I keep loosing post count ...might explain why I cant find the orginal thread.

Shadow

My leftist brain fails to see the connection between Welfare and an (implied) problem.

My solution to welfare? Simple: do not change.

Reverse Shadow's suggestion.

When you're brand new in the world, you get the highest stipend.

As time goes on, your stipend is lowered gradually over time.

Eventually, folks like Shadow and I would get a pittance in stupends, although we would (hopefully) have another income stream coming in (sales, services, dwell)

The ratings system is broken. It needs to be fixed.

But, don't expect it to be touched until after version 1.7 (mid-summer of this 2005)

LF

I sell myself, I service others, as for Dwell, I can only have one on me at a time.

Heh, Kinda like corduroy and bell bottoms eh??

Hey Leck, check my post reply regarding the Movie Kiefer wants to make...lol.

I never get it anymore. I know my balance quite well, and even though I've been back on for a month steadily,I don't see an increase in L. I guess I should ask the Lindens.

I don't think stipends are Welfare they are part of the deal you make with SL when you agree to pay them. I don't like how they are linked to ratings though. My solution is to give everyone a flat stipend of $1k a week for basic members and $2k a week for premium members. That way less creative members have spending money and the economy doesn't collapse. But we also don't have to rate whore in order to get a decent amount of cash, taking out the dancers who are better builders than the builders supposedly.

Yes, and I'm living off of it.

Actualy, I dunno, don't you work for Bonuses in some manor? Well... in some ways... I do atleast. I make something, I put it out, I sometimes get ratings for it.

But to be perfectly honest, and sadly... I get more ratings standing around the Welcome Area doing nothing than I do a total month of making something and putting it somewhere people see it. Personaly I don't think stuff I make sucks THAT bad, but maybe it does.

Edit to add: I'm not sure how Welfare works or not. I don't know if you do work for it, or just get money for doing nothing (nothing being a placer word, I'm sure people on welfare do, do something). So I can't really say Bonuses == Welfare 100%.

You are starting to rave again. I've told you about that ... it's gonna make the right look bad if you dont temper that zeal Even Rush Limbaugh thinks Pat Buchanan is a kook. Bear that in mind

-AP

Thank God for you consumers!