Should Linden Lab take Anshe's money and give it to the poor?

*steals ingrids pez to eat while spending anshe's money* *pillages ingrid's mom's house and carries her off to hold her for ransom*

*Kidnaps Cory to take to tortuga as Pirate booty*

* Hoists aimee's jolly rodge panties and sails inot the sunset.*

No not we, YOU just discovered democracy in SL, and is making you awfully uncomfortable.

And don't worry we are making great use of it in OTHER threads

This is, IMHO, the most lame comment I've had the pleasure of reading from you, Anshe.

Even if I were not to appreciate your business practices, customer service, etc. why on earth would I support the Lindens taking your money?

Heh, I'm not in favor of taking your money away. I think you rapaciously took advantage of conditions as they stood in quite an open, honest manner. You squeezed it out of your customers fair and square! And I'm sure you'll find a way to continue, regardless of what new features LL decides to implement.

Besides, at this point so many people are dependent on your continued survival. It would be unfair to all your tenants to crush you.

I say we take all her money as a fine for trying to buy sympathy.

GO BAMA GO TIDE!

Seconded

(Now I wish I was online more often, and would manage to make such posts instead of getting beaten to the punch over and over )

Buncha Alabama communists down there, all dressed up in crimson.

I voted "YES" because that side is winning.

What was the question again?

I guess this poll shows why there is something like minority rights and representative democracy in places like USA or Europe.

People just voted democratically to rob another person of her money that she earned working up to 100 hours per week. They voted to take away the money that pays for her daughter's pre-school, her health insurance and aging family members' needs in China.

I will keep lobbying for justice, fairness, protection of minorities and basic human rights in Second Life. You can keep flaming and attacking me for "power grabbing" or "pushing special interests". Or you can simply realize that what I am lobbying for is very basic things, that apply to many people. Maybe you think because you see my land or money in SL I am somehow powerful. The truth is that it just makes me very very vulnerable, compared to you who you have your RL job, your money in RL and enjoy protection of hundreds or thousands of RL laws and regulations.

I am not the only one, there are more people who begin to depend on Second Life. And there are other forms of dependency too, other types of stake people have, not related at all to financial aspect. There may soon be people for whom Second Life is the *only* chance to escape poverty, people in poor countries who will fight in Second Life for their survival, literally. They will ask these same questions that I and others have just begun to ask. What will you answer them? Will you tell them to please fuck off and go look for work in their poverty ridden RL? Will you deny them basic rights in what for them might be the only available workplace?

What will you tell people with disabilities, who also exist in Second Life? Will you deny to them justice and minority rights in what for them might be their only social life? Their only place to find companionship, experience mobility, look pretty, fall in love? Will they have to live their lifes in an intransparent police state with an unaccountable government? Or will you force some populist plebiscitary direct voting system on them? How long until the majority would vote out certain groups or lifestyles? How about one vote to turn all PG sims into Mature sims? Or how about one vote to dissolve the W-Hat group? Or one vote against the furries? Or gays? Or you?

We take these issues seriously, because our second lifes matter a lot to us. If you are one healthy person with one good RL job in a wealthy country and simply here to relax, to escape and not to be so serious, we appreciate that. But please recognize the concerns of those who may provide the content and services that might make your game more interesting. Please don't make playing with other people's jobs, their lifes and lifestyles and their human rights part of your game. Please be serious when there is so much at stake for others!

Anshe, you're a pioneer in the bleeding edge field of virtual real estate. But just because you're making money at it doesn't mean you have some inalienable right to do so.

And if you're referring to this forum poll by saying "People just voted democratically to rob another person of her money", then that's just as silly as saying the results of a CNN poll passed legislation in the House and Senate today. And I'd venture a guess to say that results are skewed against you because you haven't been really rubbing people the right way in the past few days, not because anybody honestly thinks LL should take your money, ferchrissake.

I think Cory's correct in that the results of this poll say more about people's perception of Anshe and her conduct than about the respondants' views on personal rights and such.

Also, when you ask a ridiculous question, don't be surprised when you get ridiculous answers.

I was going to vote but there was no option for pie or cheese

Nobody wants your money and in fact you are a SL success story everyone should be proud of. As long as you work fairly, I wish you make more money and be more successful.

But let me spell out for you what the problems are, in case you didn't get it from hundreds of posts in the last few days:

1. Problem #1: stop emotional exploitation with how you depend on SL. Just because you depend on SL more than others absolutely does not give you the right to have it your way and call others mere this or that. You can start up your lobby group or whatever for your self promotion, but do it honestly and fairly without invoking "poor starving girl" image or your "land baron" power image (you play with these opposite polar images according to your needs).

2. Problem #2: Don't pretend to speak out for rest of us. If you feel you are unfairly treated or feel your business is threatened, then be honest, say it directly (see problem #1)

3. Problem #3: Please do not compare the groups you form to things like Amnesty international or ACLU or what not. You immeadiately lose any credibility. Those institutions try to help the powerless, those who are suffering. As you wrote above you are interested to keep your "job" in SL, that is what you are looking out for first.

4. Problem #4: don't post stupid polls like this one. They are condescending, like your comments about the mere others. Don't forget that you are making all your money because of that rest of the 95%, don't offend them.

5. Problem #5: accept the fact that in business there are always risks. Especially in an enviroment like SL, where as you rightly point out, there is really no protection for what you do or for your money. If tomorrow, Lindens dump trillion Linden dollar into the system and make it worthless, there really is nothing you or I can do. Not that they would do that but there is no protection whatsoever. So this is the core of the problem. Until, your investments are protected by law, you are taking a huge risk, accept that fact.

In fact there are no protections in SL for anything for that matter. It is run by a company who have absolute power. I believe many of us want to change this, to make it a stable virtual world where there is openness, fairness and individual rights. I also believe Philip wants the same things but it is not an easy process as there are number of conflicts that will requrie years to sort out. Your goals in that sense are noble and appreciated. But, just like Prokofy, when it becomes apparent to thousands of people that, all you guys are doing is exploiting these great ideals for your own interest and power then it all breaks down and hell breaks lose as it did. If you can not understand this then really every other point you make is pretty much a Red Herring.

Or I could have just voted yes because it was the funnier of the options.

Sometimes that happens when people wear their hearts on thier sleeves.

You're a bit like a child I must say. You created this ridiculous poll hoping that people would all vote in favour of you, because it was the only sensible option. You hoped that if people did that, it'd be some comfort in a week where nearly everyone is against you.

Now you say people are wrong to democratically vote to steal your money. I think everyone knows that's not the case. People just don't like you, so they've voted against you. And this thread, all about voting democratically to steal money, really doesn't help anyone or anything.

Things are going to be tough for you for a while, because the comment from you in the footer of my post just isn't nice. You should feel the bite of the spite of the people, and realise that all the money in the world can't protect you from the anger of your peers. So its' best not to insult them and to treat them as less than yourself.

A good start might be an apology for your comments. And a good first move would be to clear your head, and state that you were wrong, but you now want to go forward on a basis that all peoples are equal. Then people will have respect for the fact you can be wrong, know you are wrong, apologise, and move forward. As some wise people have said, you have to put the past behind you before you can move forward.

I'm sorry if the beginning of this post sounds a bit harsh, but to be fair this week you have made a bit of a mess of things. And that mess has been blown public because people thought a conspiracy was going on. So you've suffered a public failure, which isn't good. But you can still recover. I hope in the future you think how someone else will view what you're about to say or type.

anshe, you can't seriously believe your own post... do you?

As a fellow entrepreneur, I respect what you have been able to accomplish and the hard work you have expended to get there, but people are not going to give you, or anyone, a risk-free pass to do business within SL. Nor are they going to vote to give you, or anyone, huge subsidies to do for-profit business in SL.

Let's talk reality a second. Every startup in Silicon Valley (for example) faces risk: competitive risk, market/customer reaction risk, market timing risk, regulatory risk, financial risk, HR-related risk, etc. Those startups employ people whose salaries pay for their children to eat and go to school just like you. For every Silicon Valley company that becomes famous and successful, there are COUNTLESS ones that go under... sometimes able to sell stock/assets for pennies on the dollar, sometimes simply folding and leaving nothing for all that hard work. Sometimes companies fold because of poor decisions, but sometimes it's simply bad timing or bad luck. And yes, sometimes its a governmental decision (regulatory policy) that swings in a direction the business does not want it to go.

Risk. It's the nature of business. It's the nature of being an innovator.

No one has forced you to go into business in SL. I for one hope you are successful. But don't think for one second that people are going to allow you to artificially stack the deck in your favor, or eliminate business risk that everyone else faces day in and day out.

That is very good advice I would consider very carefully if I were you. In fact, I will personally boycott you or anything you do, until this happens.

So when do the poor see the money?

Oh, it *wasn't* serious?

I'll give you a straight answer, Anshe. No-one should take the actual money you have earned, or the property you own.

But you have earned them by taking risk.

When a part of that risk materialises, or looks like doing so, you cannot then complain about this. You can lobby against it, you can try to change peoples minds, but you cannot claim any unfairness.

The most you can hope for (but not demand) is some pre-notification of the damaging events to which you may have chosen to make yourself vulnerable.

Every entrepreneur must constantly be scanning the horizon for risk, contingency planning for it, looking for ways of reconfiguring to minimise the damage.

I would suggest to you that you face an even bigger danger than telehub erasure by free p2p, which I don't think is that likely. Even if this happens, my guess is that what I mention next may be potentially much more damaging for you.

The effects of such land value changes seem to me to pale into significance compared with tier changes.

You are on notification that LL are considering drastic cuts in tier discount, perhaps even its elimination.

My guess is that the major part of your revenue comes from precisely this tier discount. I'm sure you know the figures are these:
Sim owner pays L$0.0030/m
Smallest landowner pays L$.0098/m

So the cost to you is approximately one third the smallest man.

I think that makes it pretty clear where your rented-sim income comes from.

Also that the elimination of the discount would render this whole business sector unviable at a stroke. Even halving it would probably raise very big questionmarks as to whether it would be worth the candle.

I would suggest that you absolutely must do everything you can to stop this happening, and this is perfectly understandable.

But in view of the long notification you have had, I do hope you have equally long been laying your plans, calculating contingencies, and quietly reshaping things to minimize the damage. Though it would never be in your interest to say so.

My strategy in your place, in the event I might be unable to stop it happening, would be to strive to establish a "compensation climate".

Starting small, I would first support the idea for GOM.

Then I would try to mobilise a popular movement in support, framed around a concept like "justice".

I would next float the compensation idea again in the context of something intermediate like telehubs. In the hope that I could get it some more credence, and establish some popular support and smaller precedents before we come to the real killer - tier discount.

That would be my strategy, and maybe my mind is far more subtle (or devious) than yours. But if this were your strategy too, I could not fault it.

And I wouldn't necessarily feel I was doing this totally selfishly, as there would be other landowners in the same boat, and I would be fighting for them too.

But I, as me, oppose the whole compensation principle. Because my interests are not your interests, and I believe that those who take the rewards of risk must stand up without complaint if and when the risk materialises. And ultimately the only place the compensation could come from is, us, the rest of the players, who didn't get the rewards.

So please, Anshe, stop this pretence that denying you compensation is somehow stealing from you. It isn't true, it isn't fair, it isn't brave, it isn't seemly, and it isn't even (in some ways) honest.

And don't please console yourself that there is anything in me of envy, malice or personal hostility. Its just cool, calm, rational principle. And I still feel much admiration for what you have achieved, and the effort you have put in. I even had a conversation with you once, in another body, and found you to be a likeable and intelligent person. Why ruin such respect by behaving in this way? You could easily be rich, and yet well loved by all but the envious few. It's not impossible. We still wouldn't want you compensated, but you'd get a lot more empathy.

Yes, on a poll created by *you* for what purpose? Really, Anshe, what did you expect when you created this poll?

Did you expect people to take it seriously?

Don't try to tie in minority rights and possibly racism into this, that's completely off-topic here. And in case you don't know, in the european country I live in, right next to yours, people democratically voted time and time again to take someone's money and distribute it to others. Half the money I earn vaporizes this way, actually. Ain't it the same where you live ? Yes it sucks. Yes I'm completely opposed to it. No it's not abherrent or illegal or immoral.

I don't think they really mean that they want you deprived of your stuff, Anshe. They are just sort of sticking their tongues out because they feel that the poll, particularly in the context of the other you quote, is a slighlty insulting attempt to link two concepts together in a faulty and misleading way. Bit like asking "have you stopped beating your wife".

But you make some valid points about more people beginning to earn in, and depend on SL. Its going to increase, and you are a wild-west pioneer. But there are armed native americans around, and its still dangerous. Its all changing fast, its going to go on for a while, and we cannot stifle that change because a few risk-takers will get hurt.

Personally I think it is still far too soon to do what you are doing, and you must be crazy to risk it. But thats the difference between you and me. In all likelihood you will be one of the first US$ SL millionaires, and I certainly won't. Looks like you're ahead of the pack for now, but you're far from home yet, business girl, and many more wild horses to ride. Go get em, and good luck. But please quit the complaining.