Lets Take God Out Of The Pledge Of Allegiance...!

in 5 historical references, I can prove that "GOD" deserves its place in ANY motto/anthem/pledge/credo


I edited my earlier thread, because it was directed at one person, and I did not think that fair

so it leaves. the battle Hymn of the Republic.
ALL stanzas of The Star Spangled Banner
ALL of our founding documents?

The Betsy Ross Story
Yankee Doodle
Fuck it, lets forget ALL the principles our country was founded upon!
Lets take the Godless out of the argument!

Lets leave those liberal minded enough to tolerate ALL in our country!



Hitler tried this, and thank fucking GOD! He and Neehai are now silent!

/e satire off

"Under God" was added to the Pledge in 1954 by Congress to combat the "Godless" Communists.

Note: don't feed the trolls!

*paces back and forth throughout the thread, patting his club against his palm to make sure there isn't any fighting; puts up yellow Caution tape and hides, waiting*

I don't really mind the word God being in there... just don't make me say it.

OMGZZZ!!! U hat3zz0rz Am3rIca!!!

[sarcasm]Yes... yes I do...[/sarcasm]

Seperation of church and state. Period. God has no place in the government. Believe and worship what you want, just don't base our whole country on it.

Let's do away with jingoistic pageantry and stop saying the "pledge" altogether.

~Ulrika~

Of all the 'examples' you mentioned.... only the 'ALL our founding documents' has any legal bearing.... and is completely incorrect. Only the Declaration has any mention of any sort of 'Creator,' and even then intentionally leaves it vague. The only other religious references in our founding documents are in the negative. (Such as 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' or 'there shall be no religious test for office' or 'the government of the United States is not in any way based on the principles of Christianity,' from the First Amendment to the Constitution, Article Six of the Constitution, and the Treaty of Tripoli respectively.)

And FYI.... the Nazi battle motto (inscribed on the belt buckles of the SS) was 'Gott mit uns.' (God is with us.) Hitler was a practicing Catholic who believed he was doing God's work in exterminating the Jews.... and to this day has never been excommunicated.

As Hank has mentioned.... 'under God' was added to the pledge in 1954. 'In God We Trust' was first added to american currency in 1864, and wasn't even mandatory on currency until 1908. The original pledge was written by a socialist minister... (I don't quite remember which sect... I want to say Methodist for some reason. Not sure that's correct) and bears no mention of any God at all. The motto of the United States is 'E Pluribus Unum,' NOT 'In God We Trust.'

I have always wondered why folks are against the word god in the pledge. If you don't believe in god, then what does it hurt? It then just beacomes a meaningless word. No?

Because some folks feel threatened by the presence of such phrases. I say we remove all references to God even though the majority of Americans believe in God. Just one less scapegoat for the shortcomings of our society.

I would like me and my family to be able to pledge to our country without having to affirm/disaffirm our religous beliefs or lack-thereof. However, being the non-activist I am, I just chalk it up to majority rules, and skip that part.

Well, it could be that they have a, OMG, different god?

I personally didnt appreciate being made to pray to God my entire elementary career.

YES...MADE TO

I don't know, I know some people (possibly myself) that named their genitals 'God' it brings new meaning to one nation under God.

I guess that is the equivalent to delivering a speach and picture the audience naked in your mind's eye.

Or perhaps Im a perv.

Because any reference to a monotheistic deity (particularly the judeo-christian god) in our national mottos, pledges, and whatever else, casts polytheists and atheists as second class citizens. It's bigotry. What if the pledge said "one nation under atheism..." Do you think christians would defend that with the same argument that they don't have to say it if they don't want to? The truly pathetic thing about the pledge is that inserting "under god" completely changed the meaning. "One nation, indivisible" was about the civil war and it was a statement that we would not let our country be divided again. Inserting "under god" changed it into a divisive statement. It was supposed to be about pluralism, not Christian conformity. Changing the motto from "E Pluribus Unum" (which is the essence of pluralism) to "In God We Trust" does exactly the same thing. Not that religious people give a shit since as Cash demonstrates they'll vociferously defend their right to cram their monotheistic groveling down everyone else's throat.

...one nation, under superstition, with xenophobia and bigotry for all.

A few words from Thomas Jefferson...

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarelling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind." - letter to Archibald Clay, 1816

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." - letter to Horatio Gates Spafford, March 17, 1814

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes." - letter to Baron Alexander von Humbolt, December 6, 1813

"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - letter to his nephew, Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one... But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of factitious religion, and they would catch no more flies." - letter to John Adams, August 22, 1813

"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise... without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantasms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence." - letter to John Adams, August 15, 1820

"I have ever judged of the religion of others by their lives....But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest." - letter to Mrs. M. Harrison Smith, August 6, 1816

"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the Jewish religion [Jesus], before his principles were departed from those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind and aggrandizing their oppressors in church and state....The purest system of morals ever before preached to man has been adulterated and sophisticated by artificial constructions into a mere contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves." - letter to Samuel Kercheval, January 19, 1810

"My aim [in compiling Christ's humanitarian maxims] was to justify the character of Jesus against the fictions of his psuedo-followers....the follies, the falsehoods and the charlatanisms which his biographers father upon him...That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced." - letter to Willian Short, August 4, 1820

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies." - letter to Dr. Woods (Cardiff) (Noyes)

"We discover [in the gospels] a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanatacism and fabrication"

"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever." - Virginia Act of Religious Freedom, 1786

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - Notes on the State of Virginia, 1787

(edited for typos)

My mother wrote a note every year excusing me from saying the pledge in school. Over the years I wanted to say the pledge, so she wrote notes stating that I only had to say the parts I wanted to or that I could change the words. I don't know how the hell we got away with it, but I grew up saying the pledge if and when and how I wanted to.

Great post Chip!

I was a kid and my mother never really thought about it. I dont think it really hurt me or anything, but it was pushed on me.

LEsssee It went something like this. God is great, god is good, let us thank you for our food AMEN Lol My family is so not christian, but they are a bit spiritual, so it was kinda weird to have me thanking someone elses god for the food. No, I say let the kids say their own prayers.

I am so glad to hear that I am not the only mother who has done this. I live in the most conservative county in one of the "reddest" states in America and I often feel VERY alone here. Thanks for posting that. I don't understand why we have children stand and pledge allegiance every morning.........and I don't want my daughter blindly following the crowd, esp now.

The problem is the intent of the words in the first place. The entire point in having 'under God' in the pledge is to indoctrinate people in the idea that we are somehow 'one nation under God' which we most definitely are NOT, and never have been. We are one nation under the law, and that law is the Constitution.... man's law, not God's.

Besides, isn't the fact that it's against the law enough reason to get rid of it?

Also -- The Founding Fathers were not Christians. They were Deists.

http://www.borndigital.com/founders.htm

Shhh, Kendra....you are spoiling the agenda of the Neo-Conservative Christians in this government...

IN GOD WE TRUST, is from the original Star Spangled Banner....


READ, don't quote misnomers.

GOD is in speeches of those who died for you to argue it's doesn'tbelong

It is in their inagural papers, it is EVERYWHERE

SOme of you claim "yeah, they used it because it was politics", then, that being the case, you are fucking believing a hypocrit over the truth! You willingly align yourself with a published liar! If you have ANY moral turpitude, you would know this, but you choose the easy way out instead, and call those WITH turpitude GOD lovers. Funy thing is..... I'm a bigger non-Christio-religion person than probably ALL of you. I just refuse to use a hypocrits arguments to my own purposes. Go on spouting your Lord Hypocrits views. I'll continue uttering the truth.


Religion, and politcal speeches, you want syrup on them waffles?

I guess you consider Jefferson and Madison both hypocrites then?